Mcd says we haven't got any cash....

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Royal Rother
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Re: Mcd says we haven't got any cash....

by Royal Rother » 15 Aug 2010 15:15

M Brook
Royal Rother You guys slay me. :lol:

Get someone else in as Chairman / owner and watch Reading flyyyyy eh?

Naive fools.


Well, sadly, at the moment we are going backwards. Despite his, increasingly, hollow words, SJM is losing his enthusiasm for our club. He can't go on for ever. Now would be a good time to go.

I don't get this - in what way are we going backwards?

We have financial stability; we have a team that, after a disastrous start to last season, stabilised in mid-table; we have an academy producing player after player capable of developing into decent professional footballers - an outcome that is more certain to aid financial security and self-sufficiency faster than any other single thing; and during a time of massive transition we have already blooded a decent number of these yet still look a decent enough outfit.

Of course our Chairman has ambition for the club, to suggest otherwise is just daft.

There will be very few chairmen in the entire league set up (and you can probably include a fair number in non-leagues as well) who do not wake up in the middle of the night with cold sweats about the size of the risks they are taking with their club's finances. I'd suggest Sir John Madejski is not one of them.

Make no mistake, there lies ahead at least a couple more years of dire economic strife for this country, and there will be many more clubs facing the fall-out from poor financial management.

Thankfully RFC will not be one of them.

I'll take that.

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Re: Mcd says we haven't got any cash....

by rhroyal » 15 Aug 2010 15:23

Royal Rother
M Brook
Royal Rother You guys slay me. :lol:

Get someone else in as Chairman / owner and watch Reading flyyyyy eh?

Naive fools.


Well, sadly, at the moment we are going backwards. Despite his, increasingly, hollow words, SJM is losing his enthusiasm for our club. He can't go on for ever. Now would be a good time to go.

I don't get this - in what way are we going backwards?

We have financial stability; we have a team that, after a disastrous start to last season, stabilised in mid-table; we have an academy producing player after player capable of developing into decent professional footballers - an outcome that is more certain to aid financial security and self-sufficiency faster than any other single thing; and during a time of massive transition we have already blooded a decent number of these yet still look a decent enough outfit.

Of course our Chairman has ambition for the club, to suggest otherwise is just daft.

There will be very few chairmen in the entire league set up (and you can probably include a fair number in non-leagues as well) who do not wake up in the middle of the night with cold sweats about the size of the risks they are taking with their club's finances. I'd suggest Sir John Madejski is not one of them.

Make no mistake, there lies ahead at least a couple more years of dire economic strife for this country, and there will be many more clubs facing the fall-out from poor financial management.

Thankfully RFC will not be one of them.

I'll take that.
+1. People also seem to forget that even if, hypothetically, JM had reached his limit with the club, we couldn't find another chairman just like that. If JM goes there has to be somebody capable of taking this club further to replace him.

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Re: Mcd says we haven't got any cash....

by JoebyRFC » 15 Aug 2010 15:54

I respect that Madejski wants to bring in the right owner when he sells, but I do hope he hurrys up and finds this person before we gradually find ourselves with no money, selling our best players and no interest from buyers.

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Re: Mcd says we haven't got any cash....

by M Brook » 15 Aug 2010 16:26

JoebyRFC I respect that Madejski wants to bring in the right owner when he sells, but I do hope he hurrys up and finds this person before we gradually find ourselves with no money, selling our best players and no interest from buyers.


And back where we were pre-Madejski.

Madejski has been marvellous for our club and we all owe him big time. He marched us towards the top of the hill, but now he is letting us slip back again. If the club are serious about staying in the Championship then we shouldn't even be comtemplating the possible loss of Sig, Feds, McAnuff, and Kebe. If they go then we might as well pack up, go home and get our Farnboro, Basingstoke and Maidenhead scarves out. The lack of ambition currently being shown by the club is very worrying and very disappointing. Bertrand's decision to chose Forest rather than us this season was very telling. He has chosen a club with genuine ambition rather than one with none.

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Re: Mcd says we haven't got any cash....

by FiNeRaIn » 15 Aug 2010 16:40

Well, the last bit of your post is wrong. The decision wasn't put to him to chose Reading or Forest, but im sure given the chance if both clubs asked again tomorrow he'd pick them. If i was a player, so would I. Forest > Reading in just about every way im afraid.

Madejski is dragging the club back and undoing all the hard work he's done in the last decade or so. We had an opportunity to establish ourselves as either a prem team or a " yo-yo club" like west brom. A club that comes down, still has players too good for this league and bounces right back. Instead we completely wasted our premiership money on absolutely nothing and bar a handful of good players, our team is WAY short of the standard required to bounce between divisions. We are worse off than when coppell took over after Pardew. But at least we have a decent media centre and a hotel, not the fact we have poor cover in defence and no proven goalscorers up front.

When sig goes in janury or the summer for 4/5 million. Expect a story like " this will cover the 5 million loss next season, none to be invested in the team", bla bla bla. No money available, bla bla bla.

Well run clubs find a balance between whats needed to make your club successful on the pitch whilst maintaining a solid financial state off it. Reading unfortunately concentrate completely on whats off the pitch and not on it - we are not well run.


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Re: Mcd says we haven't got any cash....

by Halifax 4-1 » 15 Aug 2010 16:58

M Brook
JoebyRFC I respect that Madejski wants to bring in the right owner when he sells, but I do hope he hurrys up and finds this person before we gradually find ourselves with no money, selling our best players and no interest from buyers.


And back where we were pre-Madejski.

Madejski has been marvellous for our club and we all owe him big time. He marched us towards the top of the hill, but now he is letting us slip back again. If the club are serious about staying in the Championship then we shouldn't even be comtemplating the possible loss of Sig, Feds, McAnuff, and Kebe. If they go then we might as well pack up, go home and get our Farnboro, Basingstoke and Maidenhead scarves out. The lack of ambition currently being shown by the club is very worrying and very disappointing. Bertrand's decision to chose Forest rather than us this season was very telling. He has chosen a club with genuine ambition rather than one with none.


In 08 the clubs debt was around £42 million, since then the overdraft has been cleared, this was £7 million and some players shipped out but I guess we still owe over £20 million and will probably be losing around £6-7 million from now on.

Any money spent does not guarantee promotion and any new owner who "invests" in the club is only adding to the clubs debts which can soon reach a point where the club comes insolvent meaning the "cop-out" of administration where all suppliers to the club are offered a few pence in the pound for their services, or even worse liquidation.

Re Bertrand, who says he chose Forest over us, we had already signed a left back early summer, Forest still had a vacancy just before the season started.

Fans need to be more patient, this is a league which any team can win as Blackpool proved last season.

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Re: Mcd says we haven't got any cash....

by Wimb » 15 Aug 2010 17:07

FiNeRaIn Well, the last bit of your post is wrong. The decision wasn't put to him to chose Reading or Forest, but im sure given the chance if both clubs asked again tomorrow he'd pick them. If i was a player, so would I. Forest > Reading in just about every way im afraid.

Madejski is dragging the club back and undoing all the hard work he's done in the last decade or so. We had an opportunity to establish ourselves as either a prem team or a " yo-yo club" like west brom. A club that comes down, still has players too good for this league and bounces right back. Instead we completely wasted our premiership money on absolutely nothing and bar a handful of good players, our team is WAY short of the standard required to bounce between divisions. We are worse off than when coppell took over after Pardew. But at least we have a decent media centre and a hotel, not the fact we have poor cover in defence and no proven goalscorers up front.

When sig goes in janury or the summer for 4/5 million. Expect a story like " this will cover the 5 million loss next season, none to be invested in the team", bla bla bla. No money available, bla bla bla.

Well run clubs find a balance between whats needed to make your club successful on the pitch whilst maintaining a solid financial state off it. Reading unfortunately concentrate completely on whats off the pitch and not on it - we are not well run.


Don't know how you can say we wasted a chance to be a Yo-Yo club when we gambled quite significantly on getting back at the first attempt. After relegation the only players sold were Kitson, Sonko and Shorey all three of whom wanted out and none of whom have set the world alight since their departure. We also resisted the urge to sell Harper, Marek, Doyle, Shunt, USA, Rosie, Lita and made significant six figure signings in the shape of NHunt and Armstrong. The size/quality of squad we had in 08/09 was EASILY good enough to get out of this league but bottled it at the crunch and couldn't get over the line despite Birmingham and Wolves begging us to take it. Although if we're being totally fair it wasn't Sir Steve's fault that NHunt, Ivar, Doyler got injured, Shunt got too big for his boots and the likes of Murty, Convey etc never really found form again. Madejski even backed SSC in bringing back Little and Kitson but it still wasn't enough.

All that wage expenditure meant that there was no way the club was going to be able to sustain that quality of team for last season but Rodgers was still allowed to being in Mills, Rasiak, Howard, Cummings and Brian was allowed to bring in Griff and Kizi on loan as well.

Onto this season and the fact is Madejski wants the club to run itself and be sound financially. You could call that a 'lack of ambition' but I admire the man for making a point of refusing to continually allow the club to run itself at a loss and just sink endless money into it. Despite everyone who whines 'Madejski out!' people don't seem to realise that there actually isn't anyone else to come in and pump money into the club and then we'd be even worse off then we are now.

I want us to sign a centre back sure, but I understand that to do so we sell first, possibly by getting rid of one of the countless forward players on our books to be able to afford it. BBC Radio Berks were saying on the radio this weekend that we have 28/29 players in our squad and to me it's the manager(s) fault for building such a forward heavy club. We have Rasiak, NHunt, Church, Long, HRk, Bignall, Kebe,McAnuff and Mooney all on the books who can play up front and we have Hamer, McCarthy, Fedders and Andersen all on the club as keepers. Now that's 12 players on the books when we play a system with 1 goalkeeper and 1 striker, so is it really the chairmans fault that the resources the club does have are being poured into those areas? It's been up to Hammond alongside the managers of recent seasons to try and balance the squad and so far we haven't got there yet.

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Re: Mcd says we haven't got any cash....

by Royal Rother » 15 Aug 2010 17:19

^^^ The definitive post against the "lack of ambition", and "opportunity lost" claims.

Nice one Wimb. Fine Rain will of course have an answer but it won't make much sense. :wink:

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Re: Mcd says we haven't got any cash....

by Victor Meldrew » 15 Aug 2010 17:34

A valid point made by wimb about the ridiculous imbalance within our squad of players.
It smacks of very poor management/direction and I don't blame Mc Dermott as most of these were on the books before he took over.
As suggested on another topic and here by wimb we need to carry on clearing out especially in the goalkeeping and forward departments to create the opportunity to bring in a different type of central striker and an experienced central defender.
Until that happens I fear that the chairman's oft-stated "ambition" will remain unfulfilled for some considerable time.
We may have numbers of players but generally we have numbers rather than quality even though we have already released Henry,Cisse and Marek.
Also big questions need to be asked of those that run the Academy-where are the 18,19 and 20 year old central defenders?


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Re: Mcd says we haven't got any cash....

by rhroyal » 15 Aug 2010 18:10

Wimb
FiNeRaIn Well, the last bit of your post is wrong. The decision wasn't put to him to chose Reading or Forest, but im sure given the chance if both clubs asked again tomorrow he'd pick them. If i was a player, so would I. Forest > Reading in just about every way im afraid.

Madejski is dragging the club back and undoing all the hard work he's done in the last decade or so. We had an opportunity to establish ourselves as either a prem team or a " yo-yo club" like west brom. A club that comes down, still has players too good for this league and bounces right back. Instead we completely wasted our premiership money on absolutely nothing and bar a handful of good players, our team is WAY short of the standard required to bounce between divisions. We are worse off than when coppell took over after Pardew. But at least we have a decent media centre and a hotel, not the fact we have poor cover in defence and no proven goalscorers up front.

When sig goes in janury or the summer for 4/5 million. Expect a story like " this will cover the 5 million loss next season, none to be invested in the team", bla bla bla. No money available, bla bla bla.

Well run clubs find a balance between whats needed to make your club successful on the pitch whilst maintaining a solid financial state off it. Reading unfortunately concentrate completely on whats off the pitch and not on it - we are not well run.


Don't know how you can say we wasted a chance to be a Yo-Yo club when we gambled quite significantly on getting back at the first attempt. After relegation the only players sold were Kitson, Sonko and Shorey all three of whom wanted out and none of whom have set the world alight since their departure. We also resisted the urge to sell Harper, Marek, Doyle, Shunt, USA, Rosie, Lita and made significant six figure signings in the shape of NHunt and Armstrong. The size/quality of squad we had in 08/09 was EASILY good enough to get out of this league but bottled it at the crunch and couldn't get over the line despite Birmingham and Wolves begging us to take it. Although if we're being totally fair it wasn't Sir Steve's fault that NHunt, Ivar, Doyler got injured, Shunt got too big for his boots and the likes of Murty, Convey etc never really found form again. Madejski even backed SSC in bringing back Little and Kitson but it still wasn't enough.

All that wage expenditure meant that there was no way the club was going to be able to sustain that quality of team for last season but Rodgers was still allowed to being in Mills, Rasiak, Howard, Cummings and Brian was allowed to bring in Griff and Kizi on loan as well.

Onto this season and the fact is Madejski wants the club to run itself and be sound financially. You could call that a 'lack of ambition' but I admire the man for making a point of refusing to continually allow the club to run itself at a loss and just sink endless money into it. Despite everyone who whines 'Madejski out!' people don't seem to realise that there actually isn't anyone else to come in and pump money into the club and then we'd be even worse off then we are now.

I want us to sign a centre back sure, but I understand that to do so we sell first, possibly by getting rid of one of the countless forward players on our books to be able to afford it. BBC Radio Berks were saying on the radio this weekend that we have 28/29 players in our squad and to me it's the manager(s) fault for building such a forward heavy club. We have Rasiak, NHunt, Church, Long, HRk, Bignall, Kebe,McAnuff and Mooney all on the books who can play up front and we have Hamer, McCarthy, Fedders and Andersen all on the club as keepers. Now that's 12 players on the books when we play a system with 1 goalkeeper and 1 striker, so is it really the chairmans fault that the resources the club does have are being poured into those areas? It's been up to Hammond alongside the managers of recent seasons to try and balance the squad and so far we haven't got there yet.
Great post Wimb. Answer that "Madejski Out" imbeciles!

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Re: Mcd says we haven't got any cash....

by Z175 » 15 Aug 2010 19:03

Wimb
FiNeRaIn Well, the last bit of your post is wrong. The decision wasn't put to him to chose Reading or Forest, but im sure given the chance if both clubs asked again tomorrow he'd pick them. If i was a player, so would I. Forest > Reading in just about every way im afraid.

Madejski is dragging the club back and undoing all the hard work he's done in the last decade or so. We had an opportunity to establish ourselves as either a prem team or a " yo-yo club" like west brom. A club that comes down, still has players too good for this league and bounces right back. Instead we completely wasted our premiership money on absolutely nothing and bar a handful of good players, our team is WAY short of the standard required to bounce between divisions. We are worse off than when coppell took over after Pardew. But at least we have a decent media centre and a hotel, not the fact we have poor cover in defence and no proven goalscorers up front.

When sig goes in janury or the summer for 4/5 million. Expect a story like " this will cover the 5 million loss next season, none to be invested in the team", bla bla bla. No money available, bla bla bla.

Well run clubs find a balance between whats needed to make your club successful on the pitch whilst maintaining a solid financial state off it. Reading unfortunately concentrate completely on whats off the pitch and not on it - we are not well run.


Don't know how you can say we wasted a chance to be a Yo-Yo club when we gambled quite significantly on getting back at the first attempt. After relegation the only players sold were Kitson, Sonko and Shorey all three of whom wanted out and none of whom have set the world alight since their departure. We also resisted the urge to sell Harper, Marek, Doyle, Shunt, USA, Rosie, Lita and made significant six figure signings in the shape of NHunt and Armstrong. The size/quality of squad we had in 08/09 was EASILY good enough to get out of this league but bottled it at the crunch and couldn't get over the line despite Birmingham and Wolves begging us to take it. Although if we're being totally fair it wasn't Sir Steve's fault that NHunt, Ivar, Doyler got injured, Shunt got too big for his boots and the likes of Murty, Convey etc never really found form again. Madejski even backed SSC in bringing back Little and Kitson but it still wasn't enough.

All that wage expenditure meant that there was no way the club was going to be able to sustain that quality of team for last season but Rodgers was still allowed to being in Mills, Rasiak, Howard, Cummings and Brian was allowed to bring in Griff and Kizi on loan as well.

Onto this season and the fact is Madejski wants the club to run itself and be sound financially. You could call that a 'lack of ambition' but I admire the man for making a point of refusing to continually allow the club to run itself at a loss and just sink endless money into it. Despite everyone who whines 'Madejski out!' people don't seem to realise that there actually isn't anyone else to come in and pump money into the club and then we'd be even worse off then we are now.

I want us to sign a centre back sure, but I understand that to do so we sell first, possibly by getting rid of one of the countless forward players on our books to be able to afford it. BBC Radio Berks were saying on the radio this weekend that we have 28/29 players in our squad and to me it's the manager(s) fault for building such a forward heavy club. We have Rasiak, NHunt, Church, Long, HRk, Bignall, Kebe,McAnuff and Mooney all on the books who can play up front and we have Hamer, McCarthy, Fedders and Andersen all on the club as keepers. Now that's 12 players on the books when we play a system with 1 goalkeeper and 1 striker, so is it really the chairmans fault that the resources the club does have are being poured into those areas? It's been up to Hammond alongside the managers of recent seasons to try and balance the squad and so far we haven't got there yet.


great post, very true. I can only add that the reckless gamble of shelling out 40m on bwages which JM would be liable for on the then 8th best team in Britain was not lacking ambition. in fact JM has already gambled the clubs futures on premier league football, and again as you point out in our first season back down.

we lost these two gambles and are now paying for it. we got lucky in selling players fod over inflated values (fair play Nicky Hammond ) and only that has allowed us to aboid severe financial problems like at watford and palace.
I will be cross when we sell Jobi,Jimmy or sig to cover this years impending 5m operating loss, as I believe 5m is a worthy gamble to get a top 6 spot.

further, everyone knows you can't buy the championship

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Re: Mcd says we haven't got any cash....

by M Brook » 15 Aug 2010 19:12

Perhaps the conclusion we are all coming to, and SJM may already have come to, is that clubs like Reading will never be able to compete or prosper in the Premiership as it currently operates without putting their very existence into question.

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Re: Mcd says we haven't got any cash....

by Royal Rother » 15 Aug 2010 21:39

Sad, but pretty much true.

But I think the best chance will be had by those clubs with a prospering academy. It certainly makes economic sense to do it that way. Whether a club of our size can ever produce enough quality talent to have a largely home-grown Premier League squad is very debatable but whilst the bigger clubs are buying foreign talent all the time the smaller ones with a good academy are bound to get a better quality of youngster joining.

The fact that many of ours are now progressing through to the 1st team, and being given good opportunities to impress all and sundry observers whilst out on loan, can only be positive for the future. The more youngsters coming through the academy making a career in football the more we will have knocking on the door.

People should not be so short-termist.


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Re: Mcd says we haven't got any cash....

by Dirk Gently » 15 Aug 2010 21:55

M Brook Perhaps the conclusion we are all coming to, and SJM may already have come to, is that clubs like Reading will never be able to compete or prosper in the Premiership as it currently operates without putting their very existence into question.


That's the nub of it - there are really only 4 or 5 clubs who stand the slightest chance of actually winning the Premier League, and about the same number who are reasonably secure in it. The other 10 or 12 are desperate to stay in the Premier League and will gamble their very existence on doing so - because they know that if they go down they'll very likely case to exist.

No "smaller club" can compete with that - football's financial model is horribly broken and needs to change - everyone who studies it (and doesn't have a vested interest) agrees with that.

I was talking to a very influential FL chairman on Friday - he says "Reading are my dream model". But because other teams are prepared to live for the short-term and gamble, it disadvantages those clubs who don't - that's no reason to join them

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Re: Mcd says we haven't got any cash....

by Southbank Old Boy » 15 Aug 2010 22:19

Royal Rother Sad, but pretty much true.

But I think the best chance will be had by those clubs with a prospering academy. It certainly makes economic sense to do it that way. Whether a club of our size can ever produce enough quality talent to have a largely home-grown Premier League squad is very debatable but whilst the bigger clubs are buying foreign talent all the time the smaller ones with a good academy are bound to get a better quality of youngster joining.

The fact that many of ours are now progressing through to the 1st team, and being given good opportunities to impress all and sundry observers whilst out on loan, can only be positive for the future. The more youngsters coming through the academy making a career in football the more we will have knocking on the door.

People should not be so short-termist.


Whilst Prem clubs are targetting the worlds best players there is no way a local group of players, from any area, is going to be good enough to compete at that level

I am in the pro-JM camp on the debate on this thread, but at the same time its laughable that we dont have sufficient centre defenders in the squad. Thats not all JMs fault of course, but it is something he can help solve by releasing enough funds to help the manager on a crucial weakness in the squad

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Re: Mcd says we haven't got any cash....

by FiNeRaIn » 15 Aug 2010 23:18

Royal Rother ^^^ The definitive post against the "lack of ambition", and "opportunity lost" claims.

Nice one Wimb. Fine Rain will of course have an answer but it won't make much sense. :wink:


Of course I will, but I still have questions that I want answered. Why can clubs like Ipswich, Barnsley, Forest,etc All manage to invest in their playing squads( whilst staying afloat) without the massive income we've had in comparison from player sales as well as the prem money in the last few years, when two of the above clubs were in league one around the same time. How can they manage sensible investment...yet we can't even bring someone in on loan. You can butter things up as much as you like, we are weak on the pitch because of lack of investment. No one is asking for multi million pound signings, but having to play a centre mid and an unproven academy player at centre back....terrible management of the club.
How can we not even afford loanees?

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Re: Mcd says we haven't got any cash....

by Hoop Blah » 16 Aug 2010 10:18

rhroyal You asked why we couldn't afford a new centre back. I said financial statements and recent factors probably makes one beyond our means.


No, I asked what it was in those financial statements that made you so sure we couldn't afford a centre back.

All you've answered that with is 'the financial statements' which doesn't actually tell me anything as to what it is within them that makes it so difficult for us to spend the extra it'll take to make the squad competitive.

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Re: Mcd says we haven't got any cash....

by Wycombe Royal » 16 Aug 2010 10:36

FiNeRaIn Of course I will, but I still have questions that I want answered. Why can clubs like Ipswich, Barnsley, Forest,etc All manage to invest in their playing squads( whilst staying afloat) without the massive income we've had in comparison from player sales as well as the prem money in the last few years, when two of the above clubs were in league one around the same time. How can they manage sensible investment...yet we can't even bring someone in on loan. You can butter things up as much as you like, we are weak on the pitch because of lack of investment. No one is asking for multi million pound signings, but having to play a centre mid and an unproven academy player at centre back....terrible management of the club.
How can we not even afford loanees?

Ipswich - Chairman throwing money at club
Forest - Chairman and other investors who have funded the club

Barnsley - well I suppose the main difference there is that they haven't been in the Prem recently and don't have players on the wages we do or have as big squad. They pay money for the occasional player so I'm not quite sure why you have included them as a club who "invest in their playing squad". Have you looked at their transfer history?

Yes we do lack investment but that is the way our owner is choosing to manage this club. It is also the way football clubs should be managed rather than the irresponsble manner we see from other owners. Their clubs are OK whilst they continue with the investment but take away the investment and they invariably end up in administration.

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Re: Mcd says we haven't got any cash....

by Schards#2 » 16 Aug 2010 10:58

I see Cardiff are lining up a move for Bellamy.

Another club who seems to have come out of financial dissaray in a stronger position that Reading

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Re: Mcd says we haven't got any cash....

by Barney » 16 Aug 2010 11:29

I just don't get this. Bellamy MUST be something in the region of £50k-£60k a week. I thought recently that Spurs were quoted as saying that his wage demands made it unlikely that Spurs would follow up in any interest in signing Bellamy. I just can not see how Cardiff can afford to fund a loan deal for Bellamy ! It must smash their wage structure to bits and I can't imagine that the other Cardiff players will be too impressed.
I just can't see this happening.

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