Long - Time to go.

[Snowball]

Almost the whole side is shot-shy and not-exactly-deadly in the league so far this season

These are shots/headers that are actually got away, and don't include crowded-out chances.

HRK and Harte have a good scoring rate. Kebe is good for a winger. Gylfi was about the same as last year

But just look at the figures to see it's a GENERAL problem

02 02 = 02 games 03 chances 01 goals (1 goal in 03.0 chances) Hal Robson-Kanu
08 00 = 08 games 06 chances 02 goals (1 goal in 03.0 chances) Harte
09 01 = 09 games 05 chances 01 goals (1 goal in 05.0 chances) Pearce
04 00 = 04 games 12 chances 02 goals (1 goal in 06.0 chances) Gylfi (1 in 6 last season, league)
12 00 = 12 games 27 chances 04 goals (1 goal in 06.5 chances) Kebe
10 00 = 10 games 07 chances 01 goals (1 goal in 07.0 chances) Mills
04 07 = 06 games 10 chances 01 goals (1 goal in 10.0 chances) Church (1 in 5.5 last season, league)
12 00 = 12 games 14 chances 01 goals (1 goal in 14.0 chances) Karacan
11 00 = 11 games 19 chances 01 goals (1 goal in 19.0 chances) Long (also won a second penalty) (1 in 6 last season, league)
01 08 = 03 games 05 chances 00 goals (0 goal in 05.0 chances) Hunt
12 00 = 12 games 19 chances 00 goals (0 goal in 19.0 chances) McAnuff

[Snowball]

For comparison Doyle's 18 goals were from 74 chances, a little worse than 1 in 4.


Was he 6.5 million when we sold him?

[Hoop Blah]

There value is about a lot more than their scorign rate or chances per goal ration etc etc.

It's about how they play, their strengths, weaknesses and what they will add to a certain side. Doyle was worth every penny of that £6.5m to Wolves.

Long on the other hand isn't crafting chances and isn't getting into the rigth positions to get on the end of the little creativity we have left.

[John Peel]

Long is being made a scapegoat for the club's failure to bring in a striker on loan. As someone said it's not like we have an abundance of decent strikers waiting on the bench. It is a shite situation but until we get a striker we just have to make do with what we have. End of.

[Hoop Blah]

Obviously it's not Long's fault he's not good enough and it's the clubs fault for not having better options available.

I don't think it's making Long a scapegoat, it's just calling out the situation as people see it. Long has been a very good option as a 3rd or 4th forward and was very good at coming of the bench and making a good contribution to plenty of games (not just by scoring goals but by defending from the front too). Thinking he was ever quite good enough to move beyond that, or having the ambition and the resources to do anything about replacing him, has been a mistake the club is now paying the price for.

[papereyes]

Can I just say that if RFC need a fit, aggressive striker with limited football skills but lots of fitness and running in him, I'm here and I'd love the chance to do what Long does for 90 minutes.

[brendywendy]

hunt>>>>long=church

and none of them are good enough at being a lone striker
we need a new striker. then i can live with long being 3rd/4th choice and everythings fine again

[Alan Partridge]

Was thinking, what would have been everyone's response 3-4 years ago if you were told at this point Shane Long was going to be Reading's main centre forward?

What I would say in his defense is in the (albeit limited) amount of games I've seen this season he's played reasonably well. I've not gone away from a game or seen a game where I thought he was absolutely shocking. I did think that in a number of games last season.

But to play up front on your own I think you have to have that 1 real stand out quality. With Forster it was pace, Spurs sometimes play Crouch up there and Bolton play Davies, these two guys win loads of long balls and allow their attacking midfielders (in spurs case V Der Vaart) to pick up the bits and pieces. Chelsea have Drogba who is the ultimate centre forward. You need that something special be it lightning pace, or be it the ability to almost 'bully' defenders. That ability to do something on your own, beat 2 or 3 players and score a goal. Long and none of the forwards here can do any of those. That's not their fault and as a two a combination of the 3 remaining would almost certainly over a period of time do better than one of them on their own.

Shane has had so many chances over the last couple of years to make the position his own, he's what 24 now and are we any closer to 'fulfilling his potential' Or are we going to wait until he's 29 or 30 still hoping for that to happen.

The problem is there isn't anyone better here. Anyone that saw the hatful of chances Church missed for Wales in switzerland the other day shows his goal prowess and Noel Hunt for his work ethic and bravery just simply can not stay fit for any length of time. I don't think he's the saviour but he is a better player than the other two.

Everyone's been saying it for well over a year to 18months now that Reading if they actually want to do anything need to sign a decent centre forward. Everyone can see it apart from the people that matter. That's whats so bewildering.

[Alan Partridge]

Noel Hunt scored a few decent headers the other year to be fair, one at home to Burnley immediately springs to mind because he got clattered doing it.

Other than that it's hard to argue with the rest of it.

[Victor Meldrew]

Was thinking, what would have been everyone's response 3-4 years ago if you were told at this point Shane Long was going to be Reading's main centre forward?

What I would say in his defense is in the (albeit limited) amount of games I've seen this season he's played reasonably well. I've not gone away from a game or seen a game where I thought he was absolutely shocking. I did think that in a number of games last season.

But to play up front on your own I think you have to have that 1 real stand out quality. With Forster it was pace, Spurs sometimes play Crouch up there and Bolton play Davies, these two guys win loads of long balls and allow their attacking midfielders (in spurs case V Der Vaart) to pick up the bits and pieces. Chelsea have Drogba who is the ultimate centre forward. You need that something special be it lightning pace, or be it the ability to almost 'bully' defenders. That ability to do something on your own, beat 2 or 3 players and score a goal. Long and none of the forwards here can do any of those. That's not their fault and as a two a combination of the 3 remaining would almost certainly over a period of time do better than one of them on their own.

Shane has had so many chances over the last couple of years to make the position his own, he's what 24 now and are we any closer to 'fulfilling his potential' Or are we going to wait until he's 29 or 30 still hoping for that to happen.

The problem is there isn't anyone better here. Anyone that saw the hatful of chances Church missed for Wales in switzerland the other day shows his goal prowess and Noel Hunt for his work ethic and bravery just simply can not stay fit for any length of time. I don't think he's the saviour but he is a better player than the other two.

Everyone's been saying it for well over a year to 18months now that Reading if they actually want to do anything need to sign a decent centre forward. Everyone can see it apart from the people that matter. That's whats so bewildering.

Well summed up AP as to the different types of lone striker but as you say none of ours fit the bill on any count.
After Scotland played 4-6-0 the other day I thought Swansea played nearly the same in that Dobbie hardly ever challenged for a ball in the air which meant that their midfielders and defenders facing the play knew where the next ball was going and none of the midfielders raced forward hoping for a flick-on.
In effect Dobbie,not being very big and unlikely to beat Mills in the air,was therefore almost part of a midfield 6 waiting to break and with two quick wingers and Pratley breaking through the middle they would suddenly have attacking options.
Whether it be Long or anybody else up front we don't even break quickly from central midfield (nor even did so with Gylfi there who was hardly quick)so there is nobody close enough to pick up the second ball.
Also we therefore tend to give away too much possession far too easily.

I reckon it is time for Brian to have a rethink and that might even mean playing with just one winger away from home because at the moment it just isn't working and the recycling of Long,Church and Hunt just shows time and again that we are short of a different type of striker.

[Hoop Blah]

Agreed on most of that AP and VM, the thing is though, we really don't have much in the way of alternatives do we?

If we were to drop a winger and play 4-4-2 with only the one attacking wide man so we don't lose the midfield, we're stretching things in the middle because we've only got 4 central midfielders, plus Armstrong of course.

The lack of options that the 'firesale' this summer has left us with is worrying as it leaves McDermotts hands tied. How much of that is his own fault I'm not sure but it was always my worry at the end of last year that we'd only see his real quality as a manager when he got the chance to build his own squad.

A few weeks ago I said somewhere on here that I was reasonably happy with the numbers and distribution of options throughout the squad but not with the quality. I think that still rings true, but now we're looking at having to move away from the first 12 or 13 players in that squad we're struggling for enough quality.

I really think we could do with a 'spark' being added to the squad via the loan market.

[RoyalBlue]

Admittedly he didnt score BUT he was certainly one of the better players on Tuesday. Least he created a chance. Until we get another striker in (which wont happen until at lease Jan) who would you play instead?

Church has missed 2 sitters in 2 games, doesn't exactly bode well does it?

Agree with that assessment. It's not his fault that he is being played as a lone striker with no decent support. His work rate has been fantastic, his attitude good. He wins an incredible amount in the air and produces good knock downs and flick ons. However, thanks to Madejski and his yes man McDermott he doesn't have anyone to take advantage of that.

Long scores for Ireland because he has decent players supporting him.

[SHORT AND CURLY]

Admittedly he didnt score BUT he was certainly one of the better players on Tuesday. Least he created a chance. Until we get another striker in (which wont happen until at lease Jan) who would you play instead?

Church has missed 2 sitters in 2 games, doesn't exactly bode well does it?

Agree with that assessment. It's not his fault that he is being played as a lone striker with no decent support. His work rate has been fantastic, his attitude good. He wins an incredible amount in the air and produces good knock downs and flick ons. However, thanks to Madejski and his yes man McDermott he doesn't have anyone to take advantage of that.

Long scores for Ireland because he has decent players supporting him.

Spot on!

[Plymouth_Royal]

All of our strikers are shite.

Long in particular.

But tbf when you sell 2 of our most creative players (matejovsky and Sig) and a striker who despite being awful SCORES GOALS, what do you expect!

you remove goals/assists from the team and replace it with an aged, LB and a CB. Well there lies the problem!!

[Royalee]

Piss off Long and take Madejski, McDermott and Church's shit finishing with you.

[loyalroyal4life]

Admittedly he didnt score BUT he was certainly one of the better players on Tuesday. Least he created a chance. Until we get another striker in (which wont happen until at lease Jan) who would you play instead?

Church has missed 2 sitters in 2 games, doesn't exactly bode well does it?

Agree with that assessment. It's not his fault that he is being played as a lone striker with no decent support. His work rate has been fantastic, his attitude good. He wins an incredible amount in the air and produces good knock downs and flick ons. However, thanks to Madejski and his yes man McDermott he doesn't have anyone to take advantage of that.

Long scores for Ireland because he has decent players supporting him.

Spot on!

I think Hunt and Long will come good providing the service improves drastically!

[cmonurz]

To get all Snowball on your asses for a sec...

Long: 79 (83) apps, 30 goals. 1 goal every 5.4 appearances, and 1 goal every 2.6 starts.
Church: 33 (23) apps, 13 goals, 1 goal every 4.3 appearances, and 1 goal every 2.5 starts.
Hunt: 36 (23) apps, 15 goals, 1 goal every 3.9 appearances, and 1 goal every 2.4 starts.

Which just goes to show how painfully mediocre our 'strikeforce' (LOL) is. Or, using Snowball's logic, if Long is a 30 goal a season striker, and our other two are apparently more prolific, then we've got some forwards even Barca should covet.

Perhaps the most striking thing about those stats is how well Church stands up against the other two. Or perhaps how poorly Hunt does, I genuinely thought he had a better record than that.

And finally, I can't believe that Shane fcuking Long has played 162 times for Reading; 35 (and counting) more than Cureton.

[Snowball]

QPR are top of the league, blowing everybody away, playing out of their skin


Jamie Mackie is brilliant so far this season, 8 in 12, but that is off the scale.

Previously he managed just 16 goals in 98 appearances for Plymouth Argyle, 19 in 86 for EXETER

He's FANTASTIC, right? His career stats are:

35 goals in 184 appearances, 1 in 5.5.... Presumably he was sh!t and should have played in the Conference?


220/45 = 1 in 4.89 appearances (includes League 2 goals, League 1 goals, no international goals) Mackie
155/29 = 1 in 5.34 appearances (includes Premiership goals, Championship goals and 5 international goals) LONG




Taraabat for QPR, "Fantastic Player" 4 goals this season in 12 starts. 1 goal per 3 starts

[Snowball]

To get all Snowball on your asses for a sec...

Long: 79 (83) apps, 30 goals. 1 goal every 5.4 appearances, and 1 goal every 2.6 starts.
Church: 33 (23) apps, 13 goals, 1 goal every 4.3 appearances, and 1 goal every 2.5 starts.
Hunt: 36 (23) apps, 15 goals, 1 goal every 3.9 appearances, and 1 goal every 2.4 starts.

Which just goes to show how painfully mediocre our 'strikeforce' (LOL) is. Or, using Snowball's logic, if Long is a 30 goal a season striker, and our other two are apparently more prolific, then we've got some forwards even Barca should covet.
Perhaps the most striking thing about those stats is how well Church stands up against the other two. Or perhaps how poorly Hunt does, I genuinely thought he had a better record than that.
And finally, I can't believe that Shane fcuking Long has played 162 times for Reading; 35 (and counting) more than Cureton.

urz, 1 in 2 is considered top-top-class striking, and that is STARTS not "appearances"

Shane, as one example has "appeared" about 20 times where he's played less than 10 minutes

[Snowball]

Or, using Snowball's logic, if Long is a 30 goal a season striker, and our other two are apparently more prolific, then we've got some forwards even Barca should covet.

|

Just to set the record straight, I said the following:


I believe Long can, PLAYING IN A 4-4-2 FOR A WHOLE SEASON

Score TWENTY (2-0) two-zero, a score, less than two-dozen Championship goals in a season

30 in League 1, 10 Prem