Brian - is he getting it wrong?

[Svlad Cjelli]

Can any manager be great - surely it's a combination of the manager, the resources available and the players, and the chemistry between them.

A crap manager might not have any success with a great set of players and all the money in the world, whilst a poor manager might succeed in the same circumstances.

SC was the perfect manager for us at the time, and ideally suited to us achieving promotion, but a poor manager at fighting relegation with a team that needed refreshing.

[Negative_Jeff]

In the case of James Harper lots has justifiably been written about the deficiencies in his game over the years. He would walk into our team at the moment though. Could we not take him on loan?

[marcusopp]

Can any manager be great - surely it's a combination of the manager, the resources available and the players, and the chemistry between them.

A crap manager might not have any success with a great set of players and all the money in the world, whilst a poor manager might succeed in the same circumstances.

SC was the perfect manager for us at the time, and ideally suited to us achieving promotion, but a poor manager at fighting relegation with a team that needed refreshing.

Totally agree.
It's mostly about luck. Having the right players for the right manager. Getting confidence up, then the whole thing snowballs.
If a team has a poor start, then confidence is low, and the same players that would have looked great, look poor.
Losing Long (which was inevitable, BM did well to keep him in jan) has meant a change of tactics, and our current personnel don't seem to have come to terms with it yet.
We have got a great squad, and the players that everyone's been moaning about (who you've all been jerking off over previously) will start to perform again.
Things take time.
Look at Brendan Todgers, he was useless for us, as we didn't have his kind of players, but, thanks to martinez, swansea did/do, so he likes like a good manager again.
I reckon BM will sort it out, I really hope he does, stability is what we need. That's why he said "I can't keep chopping and changing", which I totally agree with.

[ZacNaloen]

The biggest sign of that is that with the same players, playing a similar slightly tweaked formation we went unbeaten and just missed out on the playoffs in Mcdermotts first season, where Brendan couldn't buy a win.

[brendywendy]

That still doesn't mean his mistakes didn't undo his previous good work though brendy.

in your negativity book maybe.
in my book his achievements in those two great seasons, couldnt be undone by anything. especially seeing as they are the only time so far we have achieved so highly(and possibly ever.)
regardless of how "badly" he did the next season(.........playoffs, 3rd place, and most of the season battling for automatic promotion...LOL....yeah, coppell out.) hes still the only manager who took us to the top flight, and kept us there, in the two greatest footballing years of my life.and therefore he is the greatest.
he could have eaten all our players and burnt the stadium down, and it still couldnt erase his achievments.


brian can eclipse it, but only if he takes us up and keeps us up with a team made up of 50% academy products, and spending much less than we diod under coppell. imo
that or 107 points, and europe.

[Hoop Blah]

Spot on Dirk and marcuss. It's all about being the right person at the right place at the right time and then having the ability to make the most out of the right circumstances.

I've always said that Coppell got a bit lucky putting the team together in the way he did. That's not to belittle the work he did or how well he got them to ride the momentum and maximise the talents available to him, but every manager needs a bit of luck.

If Mark Robins hadn't scored that FA Cup goal, or Roland Neilsen hadn't falled asleep on the post Fergie woudn't have had the success he's had at Utd and, to an extent, the face of world football would've been completely different for the last 20 years!

[brendywendy]

its not luck, hed done it before with palace.
the luck aspect only kicked in when it all went wrong

[Hoop Blah]

That still doesn't mean his mistakes didn't undo his previous good work though brendy.

in your negativity book maybe.
in my book his achievements in those two great seasons, couldnt be undone by anything. especially seeing as they are the only time so far we have achieved so highly(and possibly ever.)
regardless of how "badly" he did the next season(.........playoffs, 3rd place, and most of the season battling for automatic promotion...LOL....yeah, coppell out.) hes still the only manager who took us to the top flight, and kept us there, in the two greatest footballing years of my life.and therefore he is the greatest.
he could have eaten all our players and burnt the stadium down, and it still couldnt erase his achievments.

I think you're definition of undo might be a little more sensationalist than mine (and possibly WR's).

Coppells achievements and his standing as a great manager for making them happen haven't been erased. But his successes, at their peak, took us from a play off challenging Championship team to a European football qualifying team.

When he left us we were, as when he started, a Championship play off challenging team. His good work had been undone and, on the pitch, we were in the same place as when he joined us.

That's being undone, not forgotten or erased.

[Svlad Cjelli]

If Mark Robins hadn't scored that FA Cup goal, or Roland Neilsen hadn't falled asleep on the post Fergie woudn't have had the success he's had at Utd and, to an extent, the face of world football would've been completely different for the last 20 years!

And there are so many such examples - if we'd not had such outrageous good luck with injuries that season we might not have won the Championship, and in the other direction there are countless minor incidents in the relegation season where if we'd had a bit more luck we would have stayed up - for instance beating Fulham instead of Liverpool. In fact. the whole of Fulham's miraculous last-ditch revival, coupled with Portsmouth's unlikely run to the FA Cup Final, could almost have been the gods conspiring against us.

[brendywendy]

That still doesn't mean his mistakes didn't undo his previous good work though brendy.

in your negativity book maybe.
in my book his achievements in those two great seasons, couldnt be undone by anything. especially seeing as they are the only time so far we have achieved so highly(and possibly ever.)
regardless of how "badly" he did the next season(.........playoffs, 3rd place, and most of the season battling for automatic promotion...LOL....yeah, coppell out.) hes still the only manager who took us to the top flight, and kept us there, in the two greatest footballing years of my life.and therefore he is the greatest.
he could have eaten all our players and burnt the stadium down, and it still couldnt erase his achievments.

I think you're definition of undo might be a little more sensationalist than mine (and possibly WR's).

Coppells achievements and his standing as a great manager for making them happen haven't been erased. But his successes, at their peak, took us from a play off challenging Championship team to a European football qualifying team.

When he left us we were, as when he started, a Championship play off challenging team. His good work had been undone and, on the pitch, we were in the same place as when he joined us.

That's being undone, not forgotten or erased.

in which case i couldnt care less about undoing what he did.
no one(apart from A ferguson stays brilliant forever)

[RoyalBlue]

That still doesn't mean his mistakes didn't undo his previous good work though brendy.

in your negativity book maybe.
in my book his achievements in those two great seasons, couldnt be undone by anything. especially seeing as they are the only time so far we have achieved so highly(and possibly ever.)
regardless of how "badly" he did the next season(.........playoffs, 3rd place, and most of the season battling for automatic promotion...LOL....yeah, coppell out.) hes still the only manager who took us to the top flight, and kept us there, in the two greatest footballing years of my life.and therefore he is the greatest.
he could have eaten all our players and burnt the stadium down, and it still couldnt erase his achievments.


brian can eclipse it, but only if he takes us up and keeps us up with a team made up of 50% academy products, and spending much less than we diod under coppell. imo
that or 107 points, and europe.

It's rare that we agree on something but on this there's 100% agreement.

[RoyalBlue]

If Mark Robins hadn't scored that FA Cup goal, or Roland Neilsen hadn't falled asleep on the post Fergie woudn't have had the success he's had at Utd and, to an extent, the face of world football would've been completely different for the last 20 years!

And there are so many such examples - if we'd not had such outrageous good luck with injuries that season we might not have won the Championship, and in the other direction there are countless minor incidents in the relegation season where if we'd had a bit more luck we would have stayed up - for instance beating Fulham instead of Liverpool. In fact. the whole of Fulham's miraculous last-ditch revival, coupled with Portsmouth's unlikely run to the FA Cup Final, could almost have been the gods conspiring against us.

But one of the real measures of how good a manager is (and not just in football) is how he/she copes with the hand that fate deals.

[Svlad Cjelli]

If Mark Robins hadn't scored that FA Cup goal, or Roland Neilsen hadn't falled asleep on the post Fergie woudn't have had the success he's had at Utd and, to an extent, the face of world football would've been completely different for the last 20 years!

And there are so many such examples - if we'd not had such outrageous good luck with injuries that season we might not have won the Championship, and in the other direction there are countless minor incidents in the relegation season where if we'd had a bit more luck we would have stayed up - for instance beating Fulham instead of Liverpool. In fact. the whole of Fulham's miraculous last-ditch revival, coupled with Portsmouth's unlikely run to the FA Cup Final, could almost have been the gods conspiring against us.

But one of the real measures of how good a manager is (and not just in football) is how he/she copes with the hand that fate deals.

Agreed - but that alters the results. A great manager who makes a bad team survive will be viewed not as good as a rubbish manager who happened to have a great set of players.

[Ferris]

Apparently after the Watford game, he just sat in the changing room and didn’t say anything, literally nothing. In the end Nigel Gibbs just said to the players just get showered and go home.

Also sounds like the fringe players are getting pissed off by the lack of opportunity despite how badly we're doing.

[westendgirl]

If Mark Robins hadn't scored that FA Cup goal, or Roland Neilsen hadn't falled asleep on the post Fergie woudn't have had the success he's had at Utd and, to an extent, the face of world football would've been completely different for the last 20 years!

And there are so many such examples - if we'd not had such outrageous good luck with injuries that season we might not have won the Championship, and in the other direction there are countless minor incidents in the relegation season where if we'd had a bit more luck we would have stayed up - for instance beating Fulham instead of Liverpool. In fact. the whole of Fulham's miraculous last-ditch revival, coupled with Portsmouth's unlikely run to the FA Cup Final, could almost have been the gods conspiring against us.

Even worse in both Fulham games we conceded a late goal as we were trying to get back in the game. If neither of those had gone in we would have stayed up.

[Pepe the Horseman]

Apparently after the Watford game, he just sat in the changing room and didn’t say anything, literally nothing. In the end Nigel Gibbs just said to the players just get showered and go home.

That's a bit odd. Should have put a rocket up them, not given them the silent treatment.

[RoyalBlue]

Apparently after the Watford game, he just sat in the changing room and didn’t say anything, literally nothing. In the end Nigel Gibbs just said to the players just get showered and go home.

That's a bit odd. Should have put a rocket up them, not given them the silent treatment.

Think I'd have left them there on their own to discuss amongst themselves what they were playing at. And if anyone tried to come out I'd have said 'Where the f*ck do you think you're going?'!!

[Get Carter]

This season the performances and results at home are becoming alarmingly similar to the end of Coppell and beginning of Brendan's tenure when we went 16 home league games without a win. We got a draw against Millwall with two very late goals and we lost against two teams who had not won a game between them.
Another worrying statistic, is the fact that we have not scored one goal in the first half of any league game this season.
Suggestion - drop Feds, Legs, Griffin, Kebe and bring in a quality replacement for Long on loan.

[Ian Royal]

Apparently after the Watford game, he just sat in the changing room and didn’t say anything, literally nothing. In the end Nigel Gibbs just said to the players just get showered and go home.

That's a bit odd. Should have put a rocket up them, not given them the silent treatment.

disappointed silence can be far harder to ignore than ranting and raving in those circumstances. We'll have to wait and see if it worked.

[Woodcote Royal]

If Mark Robins hadn't scored that FA Cup goal, or Roland Neilsen hadn't falled asleep on the post Fergie woudn't have had the success he's had at Utd and, to an extent, the face of world football would've been completely different for the last 20 years!

And there are so many such examples - if we'd not had such outrageous good luck with injuries that season we might not have won the Championship, and in the other direction there are countless minor incidents in the relegation season where if we'd had a bit more luck we would have stayed up - for instance beating Fulham instead of Liverpool. In fact. the whole of Fulham's miraculous last-ditch revival, coupled with Portsmouth's unlikely run to the FA Cup Final, could almost have been the gods conspiring against us.

Even worse in both Fulham games we conceded a late goal as we were trying to get back in the game. If neither of those had gone in we would have stayed up.

And had manager of the century Steve Coppell signed a left back at the start of the season who was vaguely interested in playing for us we may well have finished mid-table.