Sold 80 goals and bought 20.

[Vision]

I'd say that actually Gylfi is the former and Long is the latter.

McD made a big point of saying that Glyfi's sale secured the future of the club whatever that meant. Thats not to say he was forced out of course but as Hoop Blah says it's not "cloud cuckoo land" to suggest he wouldn't have stayed if we'd have really convinced him we wanted him too. It was too much money for us to say no,it was desperately needed (black hole and all that) and it's not too much of a stretch to say that had some bearing in Glyfi's decision.

Long is different in that although we didn't desperately need the money we really couldn't stand in his way.

I agree that the timescales were completely different - with Long everyone knew it was inevitable that he would leave this summer for month, but with Gylfi the whole process took just a couple of days.

The offer came in for Gylfi (about a season earlier than was expected), the offer was put to him and he accepted it. He was offered good terms, a place with a team in the best League in Europe, and the best of coaching in a country famous for the quality of its youth development. He knew that he might break his leg the next week, and it's not as if he is a local lad brought up playing football on the streets of Whitley - we were only ever a stepping-stone on his career.

Why would he turn that opportunity down - and would you in his situation?

And would it really be right or ethical for the club to try and make him turn down such a phenomenal opportunity being offered to Gylfi. At the time it was clearly much better for his long-term career than anything we could offer. And if we had strong-armed him into playing, how would he have played for us the next season - Sidwellesque or Shoreyesque - no way of knowing that one.

"Strong-armed" is a bit extreme isn't it? There's a massive gap between "forcing someone to stay" and "forcing someone out the door". As I've said I don't think we were as desperate to keep him as you're suggesting given how we spoke after the sale was made about how essential it was for our business model to sell to cover the financial shortfal That's not to say we weren't sorry to see him go or that we'd have been unhappy if he'd have stayed but it would have left us looking for other ways to cover our shortfall.

I'm still not convinced at signing for Hoffenheim being A) quite the "phenomenal opportunity" you think or B) being that much better for his long term development than another season with us but thats just a judgment call I guess.

I know it seems like I'm radically disagreeing with you and Wimb but I'm not really, I just don't think every case and in particular the Gylffi situation is quite as clear cut as some people state. (That and the fact that I'm bored at work and have some time to play a bit of Devil's Advocate this morning )

[Svlad Cjelli]

No worries.

I just don't think that anyone who realistically expects a young player to turn down - or to allow himself to be persuaded to turn down - a move to a top division club understands the mindset of players. For them this is just a job, a stepping-stone in their career - not something like it is with supporters (the only exception is possibly players who were local kids and have grown up with the club).

Quite apart from the money - which we could never match - it's the opportunity to play at a higher level, and to make a real name for yourself. Many players don't get that chance in a whole career - and there's always in teh back of their mind the fact that one serious injury could stop the hole career just like that. In the words of one player who left "I don't to be aged 35 and looking back on my career and wondering what would have happened if I'd accepted that move...."

So ignore the sentiment that is inevitable from fans - from a player's point of view once he had received that offer he was gone. (Even more so because whilst Hoffenheim had been in regular contact with RFC over Gylfi for at least 18 months, there had been no interest or contact about him from any PL clubs).

[melonhead]

there is no player in the world of football for whom reading FC are the pinnacle of their ambition.
even th e legendary ones who have stayed for long or significant periods of their careers like murts, parky,ivar would all have jumped at the earliest opportunity if a bigger and better club came in for them.

the only way we can stop this is to slowly build the club, until we win a hundred titles and champions leagues

[Hoop Blah]

Just following on from a post in General Football...wasn't the general consensus that there was no way that Spurs could keep hold of Modric once the moneybags of Chelsea, with their Champions League football and serious title aspirations, came knocking in the summer?

Spurs said no we're not selling and fought of the challenge despite the player wanting the move. Hasn't hurt them much has it?

I'm still not saying we shouldn't have sold both for the financial good of the club, just that sometimes it's possible to put up a fight and hold on to players even though some would say it's inevitable they're going to leave.

[melonhead]

kind of irrelevant either way- especialy with long who wanted to go, and only stayed the extra season cos we promised he could
id say gylfi was defo more to do with the money, but again, if we simply couldnt afford to turn it down, saying we could have made him stay if we wanted to is also sort of irrelevant

[Wimb]

Just following on from a post in General Football...wasn't the general consensus that there was no way that Spurs could keep hold of Modric once the moneybags of Chelsea, with their Champions League football and serious title aspirations, came knocking in the summer?

Spurs said no we're not selling and fought of the challenge despite the player wanting the move. Hasn't hurt them much has it?

I'm still not saying we shouldn't have sold both for the financial good of the club, just that sometimes it's possible to put up a fight and hold on to players even though some would say it's inevitable they're going to leave.

Of course, hence why Kebe is still a Reading player despite fans saying in each of the last 3 windows that he'd be off. We put up a fight to keep Shorey and Stephen Hunt as well but that didn't quite pan out as well

[Hoop Blah]

kind of irrelevant either way- especialy with long who wanted to go, and only stayed the extra season cos we promised he could
id say gylfi was defo more to do with the money, but again, if we simply couldnt afford to turn it down, saying we could have made him stay if we wanted to is also sort of irrelevant

Yes but my point is that this comment from Dirk is a bit of a misleading as I think we could've stopped them, or at least tried.

For "sold", read "unable to stop moving on."

[Svlad Cjelli]

kind of irrelevant either way- especialy with long who wanted to go, and only stayed the extra season cos we promised he could
id say gylfi was defo more to do with the money, but again, if we simply couldnt afford to turn it down, saying we could have made him stay if we wanted to is also sort of irrelevant

Yes but my point is that this comment from Dirk is a bit of a misleading as I think we could've stopped them, or at least tried.

For "sold", read "unable to stop moving on."

I still stand by it - in those two cases I don't think we could. The people at the club don't just talk to players when an offer is received - it's a continuous dialogue with them.

[Hoop Blah]

I'm sure we can agree to disagree Dirk!

I just feel that although they obviously talk about it over some time I just get the impression that they don't pull out all the stops when there is an attractive offer on the table which they're more than happy to accept.

[melonhead]

Just following on from a post in General Football...wasn't the general consensus that there was no way that Spurs could keep hold of Modric once the moneybags of Chelsea, with their Champions League football and serious title aspirations, came knocking in the summer?

Spurs said no we're not selling and fought of the challenge despite the player wanting the move. Hasn't hurt them much has it?

I'm still not saying we shouldn't have sold both for the financial good of the club, just that sometimes it's possible to put up a fight and hold on to players even though some would say it's inevitable they're going to leave.

Of course, hence why Kebe is still a Reading player despite fans saying in each of the last 3 windows that he'd be off. We put up a fight to keep Shorey and Stephen Hunt as well but that didn't quite pan out as well

kept half the squad after relegation when they would all have prefferred to be off

[melonhead]

I'm sure we can agree to disagree Dirk!

I just feel that although they obviously talk about it over some time I just get the impression that they don't pull out all the stops when there is an attractive offer on the table which they're more than happy to accept.

every player has a value, and until we have millions in our coffers, i dont think we will turn own many offers that meet that value

i guess dirk may mean that we couldnt stop them either way- cos both offers were too good for the players, or the club to turn down

[Svlad Cjelli]

Perhaps - but it's the player's decision in the end - and part of our philosophy is to do what's best for the player. Players come here partly because they know we'll do alright by them.

[Hoop Blah]

Perhaps - but it's the player's decision in the end - and part of our philosophy is to do what's best for the player. Players come here partly because they know we'll do alright by them.

Again, when it suits us.

As much as agree it is part of what the club sells itself on I don't remember us doing what's right by the player with Salako, Henry, Cox, Halford etc etc.

[Hoop Blah]

I'm sure we can agree to disagree Dirk!

I just feel that although they obviously talk about it over some time I just get the impression that they don't pull out all the stops when there is an attractive offer on the table which they're more than happy to accept.

every player has a value, and until we have millions in our coffers, i dont think we will turn own many offers that meet that value

i guess dirk may mean that we couldnt stop them either way- cos both offers were too good for the players, or the club to turn down

And I agree with the first bit, every player does have his price, I've not said we necessarily shouldn't have taken the money on offer just that it wasn't outside of our control to keep them (or at least try to) if we really wanted to.

I think Dirks made it pretty clear that he thinks the power was all with the players and that the club was unable to stop them going at the times that they did.

[Svlad Cjelli]

Perhaps - but it's the player's decision in the end - and part of our philosophy is to do what's best for the player. Players come here partly because they know we'll do alright by them.

Again, when it suits us.

As much as agree it is part of what the club sells itself on I don't remember us doing what's right by the player with Salako, Henry, Cox, Halford etc etc.

Certainly with Cox we did - let him go with relatively little hassle when it was clear he'd not get opportunities here.

[Hoop Blah]

Just following on from a post in General Football...wasn't the general consensus that there was no way that Spurs could keep hold of Modric once the moneybags of Chelsea, with their Champions League football and serious title aspirations, came knocking in the summer?

Spurs said no we're not selling and fought of the challenge despite the player wanting the move. Hasn't hurt them much has it?

I'm still not saying we shouldn't have sold both for the financial good of the club, just that sometimes it's possible to put up a fight and hold on to players even though some would say it's inevitable they're going to leave.

Of course, hence why Kebe is still a Reading player despite fans saying in each of the last 3 windows that he'd be off. We put up a fight to keep Shorey and Stephen Hunt as well but that didn't quite pan out as well

kept half the squad after relegation when they would all have prefferred to be off

I'll say it again, I don't doubt that sometimes it's the right thing to let them go, and sometimes I think it would be better to keep them and I'd rather the club tried to do that a bit more.

With Long and Sigurdsson it seemed that the club were looking to move them on without any fight. That's the only point I'm debating here.

As for Kebe, well my views on him are pretty well documented on here. I'm not too surprised that nobody has come in for him despite his cult of followers on here.

[Hoop Blah]

Perhaps - but it's the player's decision in the end - and part of our philosophy is to do what's best for the player. Players come here partly because they know we'll do alright by them.

Again, when it suits us.

As much as agree it is part of what the club sells itself on I don't remember us doing what's right by the player with Salako, Henry, Cox, Halford etc etc.

Certainly with Cox we did - let him go with relatively little hassle when it was clear he'd not get opportunities here.

My point being that Cox should've had more opportunities at the time so that he didn't have to be moved on.

That would've been the best thing for the likes of Henry and Cox. They were both overlooked for largely non-performing established players.

[Svlad Cjelli]

Again, when it suits us.

As much as agree it is part of what the club sells itself on I don't remember us doing what's right by the player with Salako, Henry, Cox, Halford etc etc.

Certainly with Cox we did - let him go with relatively little hassle when it was clear he'd not get opportunities here.

My point being that Cox should've had more opportunities at the time so that he didn't have to be moved on.

That would've been the best thing for the likes of Henry and Cox. They were both overlooked for largely non-performing established players.

But we were in the PL at the time - not the place to blood youngsters. The timing was really unfortunate there.

[Hoop Blah]

Not with Henry we weren't.

I really think Coppell got it wrong with Cox too. He could've been the spark we were missing when we didn't have right midfielder and everything was getting far too predictable and stale with the old guard. Sometimes you just need a burst of enthusiasm or someone willing to try something off the cuff. He did that against Spurs in the cup (??) and was then completely overlooked and so left.

That was his moment, and the club/Coppell didn't give him his chance even though the team was crying out for it.

[under the tin]

Not with Henry we weren't.

I really think Coppell got it wrong with Cox too. He could've been the spark we were missing when we didn't have right midfielder and everything was getting far too predictable and stale with the old guard. Sometimes you just need a burst of enthusiasm or someone willing to try something off the cuff. He did that against Spurs in the cup (??) and was then completely overlooked and so left.

That was his moment, and the club/Coppell didn't give him his chance even though the team was crying out for it.

This I completely agree with. Cox was the best Reading player on the pitch that game.