2012/13 transfers - what would you have done?

[Cypry]

I'm constantly reading on here people saying that our transfer policy has failed, and we haven't done enough in either transfer window this season, but I see very little in the way of people offering sensible suggestions as to how we could have done things differently.

If we accept as fact that the club under-budgeted in the Summer (as stated by Anton), then how much do you think we should have spent? An extra couple of £M? Double? Triple? More???

With the benefit of hindsight, where should we have spent more (if any)...

Did we do enough in January? Or, were we hamstrung by our league position?


Personally I'm not convinced that we could have done much more, within the constraints of club budgets. Since the TSI takeover was first made public, we've been told that the club would carry on in largely the same manner it has for some years now. To me, this means being run as a business, without large injections of external cash. Being "sustainable" if you like.

Now I don't believe for one minute that with all the activity around trying to achieve CAT1 academy status (check out the new AstroTurf pitch behind the dome if you don't believe we've been spending big in this area), sorting out a new training ground etc that we could have spent a lot more in the Summer without breaking that sustainability model. Perhaps a few £M more? But what would that have actually got us? One, at a stretch two "Premiership" quality players? Would it really have made that much difference to our league position? I doubt it.

As for January, it was pointed out by many in advance of the window that our league position would hamper our ability to sign players of the quality we might need (and confirmed by McD who said we'd try to sign Premiership experience but that it would not be easy). It seems that this was indeed the case....there were very few "quality" signings by teams in the dogfight in that window, with the exception of QPR and, as is their method, they paid way over the odds in order to achieve that.
I do believe we had funds available, and I do believe we were close to getting Gylfi back (scuppered by the Diabe move falling through). I'm not sure what more we could have done in honesty...


Finally, I don't believe that the increase in TV money is worth a high stakes gamble anyway (specifically this season). It's a boost of around £20M for a club of our level next year, if we go down there's negligible affect on us, the parachute payments are not changing, and with our level of wages we won't have a big fire sale in the Summer in order to reduce salary spend. For the Prem clubs next year there will be huge pressure on wages - a big chunk of the increase will go into players pockets, with the remainder likely spent on transfers. It won't affect us if we're in the Championship.

Come May 2014, three clubs will be relegated fom the Prem, and it's those clubs I expect to be hit hard. They'll have inflated wage bills, no increase in parachute payments, and will almost certainly have to offload a significant chunk of their better players - I think that's when he increase will bite.

[Wimb]

I was going to write an essayish response on this but then realised I might as well save it for TTE...

[Biscuit_Boy]

We signed two League One players, one from the Prem and a totally unfit guy from Portugal. Could have maybe looked to the Championship at least?

[Snowball]

Neat Post


Not sure what "I would have done".


Kelly is a very good buy. So is Akpan.

I think had we managed to get Gylfi (or probably Ince) that might have been enough to get us to 4th/5th bottom. We aren't THAT far off, even now
and it is still in our hands, just beat Villa and Saints and draw/beat QPR and we have a real fighting chance.


But, for me, I think McDermott and the owners have been building a Championship side. That is, they are looking at a very-probable
Championship season next year and a go for automatic promotion.

Not saying they aren't trying to stay up, but that all their buys in January are suggestive of "will be good next year", so they are
trying to buy players who wouldn't leave if we go down.

McArthy/Feds

Kelly-Morrison-Marriappa-Shorey/A N Other

Kebe/McCleary ---Akpan/Elwood/Karacan --- McAnuff/HRK

Blackman//Alf/Hunt

Looks a very strong basic side for the Championship. If the Portugese guy comes good
and plays to his (apparent) potential, and we add one or two we have a squad with
a very likely top six finish and a decent shot at automatic.

If by some miracle we stay up, we will need a top left back, another CB (and/or Pearce signed)
and some class in MF (like Siggy/Ince) and maybe a striker

[rhroyal]

To be honest, same activity in summer. Just more tactical nous and selecting of our best players.

More activity in January, especially in central midfield with a potential number 10. Not sure I'd bother with Carrico if we won't even allow him some game time in an FA Cup tie against Sheff Utd.

[Snowball]

We signed two League One players, one from the Prem and a totally unfit guy from Portugal. Could have maybe looked to the Championship at least?

Our posts crossed.

I think they DID look to the Championship. RFC in the Championship next year

[Cypry]

We signed two League One players, one from the Prem and a totally unfit guy from Portugal. Could have maybe looked to the Championship at least?

Problem is, the best players in the Championship are in and around the top ten (in the main) and they'll all be looking up thinking they have a chance of getting into the Prem next year - why would they join a club who (in many peoples eyes) are nailed on to be back in the Championship next year? The choice is to stay where they are, have a chance at promotion (and the bumper payday that will go with that next year) or join little old Reading, play a dozen Prem games and then suffer relegation and another seaason in the Championship next year....

[Mr.T10]

Don't blame transfer policy, I still believe we did the best we could. Obviously we could have done better, every team could do better on transfers.

Selection and tactics have put us in a shit position.

I know lets go 4-4-2 against teams we have no chance against and don't pack the midfield but when we play against a team which we should be on the front foot and play 4-5-----------------------1.

No tactical sense on McDermotts part.

[joeroyal]

Neat Post


Not sure what "I would have done".


Kelly is a very good buy. So is Akpan.

I think had we managed to get Gylfi (or probably Ince) that might have been enough to get us to 4th/5th bottom. We aren't THAT far off, even now
and it is still in our hands, just beat Villa and Saints and draw/beat QPR and we have a real fighting chance.


But, for me, I think McDermott and the owners have been building a Championship side. That is, they are looking at a very-probable
Championship season next year and a go for automatic promotion.

Not saying they aren't trying to stay up, but that all their buys in January are suggestive of "will be good next year", so they are
trying to buy players who wouldn't leave if we go down.

McArthy/Feds

Kelly-Morrison-Marriappa-Shorey/A N Other

Kebe/McCleary ---Akpan/Elwood/Karacan --- McAnuff/HRK

Blackman//Alf/Hunt

Looks a very strong basic side for the Championship. If the Portugese guy comes good
and plays to his (apparent) potential, and we add one or two we have a squad with
a very likely top six finish and a decent shot at automatic.

If by some miracle we stay up, we will need a top left back, another CB (and/or Pearce signed)
and some class in MF (like Siggy/Ince) and maybe a striker

Very poor side, very poor Manager, in all a very poor situation we find ourselves you just got to laugh at some of the comments on here, never mind lets watch some good prem football this afternoon (the london derby) for the muppets who dont know what prem football is all about, sit down for 90 mins watch, listen and learn

[Avon Royal]

Looks like Arsene has been taking lessons in defensive organisation from Brian to be fair.

[The Real Sandhurst Royal]

McDermott should have cleared the decks he has been to loyal: Tabb, Legs, Harte, Cummings, Church and Gorkss should have all been released at the end of last season.

Two centre backs with Premier League experience and two quality midfielder that could hold the ball were required.

[Sanguine]

Appreciate the time you've taken to write a lengthy post explaining your views Cypry, but given the central plank of those views is that we couldn't have spent more without risking the financial stability of the club (I totally disagree) - well it just seems pointless rehashing old arguments.

I'd have spent more, but you've just told us we couldn't. So pointless thread really.

[JordCot]

McDermott should have cleared the decks he has been to loyal: Tabb, Legs, Harte, Cummings, Church and Gorkss should have all been released at the end of last season.

Two centre backs with Premier League experience and two quality midfielder that could hold the ball were required.

He has showed he is not premier league quality but you can't blame brian for not releasing Gorkks!! He was the key member of our CB's in a team that won the league. That deserves a shot at the premier league

[Cypry]

Appreciate the time you've taken to write a lengthy post explaining your views Cypry, but given the central plank of those views is that we couldn't have spent more without risking the financial stability of the club (I totally disagree) - well it just seems pointless rehashing old arguments.

I'd have spent more, but you've just told us we couldn't. So pointless thread really.

The point of the thread was to ask what other people's views were, I thought I'd get the ball rolling with mine....I'm not saying that I'm right, they are, after all, only opinions....and I'm not saying we couldn't have spent more, the question is, how much more would we have needed to spend to make a difference...?

Sandhurst has suggested half a dozen players we should have offloaded in the Summer, in some cases I agree, but he seems to be suggesting replacing Tabb and Legs with "upgrades" - I'm guessing we're talking £4M+, Gorkks with another two quality CBs (assuming that Mariappa is not one of those two) so another £4M+, and getting rid of Cummings and Harte, leaving us with one option at both left, and right back....

For Prem quality players, I'd suggest that £2M apiece for 4 players is probably on the low side, but nonetheless, in this example Sandurst seems to be suggesting we should have bought in at least 4 possibly 6 (assuming that 1LB and 1RB is a non-starter) so probably £10M+ on transfers, plus additional wages....pretty sure that would start to stretch "sustainability"...

I'm interested to see what people think we should have done.....it's easy to say we got it wrong, but not quite so easy to go into detail about how we could have done things better...

[CayeneMatt]

McDermott should have cleared the decks he has been to loyal: Tabb, Legs, Harte, Cummings, Church and Gorkss should have all been released at the end of last season.

Two centre backs with Premier League experience and two quality midfielder that could hold the ball were required.

This is complete bollox. With the benefit of hindsight, you're close, but at the time Ledge, Harte and Gorkks were on top form and Cummings wasn't playing too badly either. There was no concrete suggestion that they wouldn't cut it in the prem.

[Sanguine]

Appreciate the time you've taken to write a lengthy post explaining your views Cypry, but given the central plank of those views is that we couldn't have spent more without risking the financial stability of the club (I totally disagree) - well it just seems pointless rehashing old arguments.

I'd have spent more, but you've just told us we couldn't. So pointless thread really.

The point of the thread was to ask what other people's views were, I thought I'd get the ball rolling with mine....I'm not saying that I'm right, they are, after all, only opinions....and I'm not saying we couldn't have spent more, the question is, how much more would we have needed to spend to make a difference...?

Sandhurst has suggested half a dozen players we should have offloaded in the Summer, in some cases I agree, but he seems to be suggesting replacing Tabb and Legs with "upgrades" - I'm guessing we're talking £4M+, Gorkks with another two quality CBs (assuming that Mariappa is not one of those two) so another £4M+, and getting rid of Cummings and Harte, leaving us with one option at both left, and right back....

For Prem quality players, I'd suggest that £2M apiece for 4 players is probably on the low side, but nonetheless, in this example Sandurst seems to be suggesting we should have bought in at least 4 possibly 6 (assuming that 1LB and 1RB is a non-starter) so probably £10M+ on transfers, plus additional wages....pretty sure that would start to stretch "sustainability"...

I'm interested to see what people think we should have done.....it's easy to say we got it wrong, but not quite so easy to go into detail about how we could have done things better...

I liked the signing of Shorey - it's a signing that made sense, we needed more than Harte at left-back, Shorey had been playing in the PL, and we knew all about his game. But those sort of signings should have supplemented some real investment, not been on paper our most shrewd or ambitious signings.

The club showed no ambition in the summer when more significant investment might have secured Rhodes (20 in 30 this season) or Zaha (off to United soon) for around £5m, or Jordan Ayew, who has had a good season for Marseille, for a bit less.

No, those players are no guarantee of success, but if this club is serious about establishing itself in the Premier League it will have to take a more substantial financial risk at some point. The irony, whilst many on here continue to encourage 'prudent' finances is that even the club realises this - but now it's too late and as Reading frantically try to fill one of many gaps in the team, Blackpool and Spurs are demanding astronomical amounts for our transfer targets - because they can, because we really need these players. And we nearly paid those amounts too.

That's 'financial suicide', where you're potentially spunking £12m on Sigurdsson when that fee might have bought two high quality targets in the summer.

To answer your question of sorts, given I rate Hammond and McDermott in terms of identifying players, I feel had we then pulled the trigger and been prepared to pay what the market demanded for some of those players - an investment in the region of £20m in fees, on four or five players, would have significantly improved the squad and left us better prepared for this coming season. Then supplement that with signings like Shorey.

[DOYLERSAROYALER]

McDermott should have cleared the decks he has been to loyal: Tabb, Legs, Harte, Cummings, Church and Gorkss should have all been released at the end of last season.

Two centre backs with Premier League experience and two quality midfielder that could hold the ball were required.

This is complete bollox. With the benefit of hindsight, you're close, but at the time Ledge, Harte and Gorkks were on top form and Cummings wasn't playing too badly either. There was no concrete suggestion that they wouldn't cut it in the prem.

Old Colin saw that Gorkks and Ledge couldn't cut it at Prem level and duly shipped them both out ... we took them, fair to them they did a good job in Championship, but now we've found out what Colin did...what goes around comes around I guess

[Libertine]

It is obvious we didn't do enough in either window. During the Summer we signed Guthrie, Pogrebnyak McCleary Mariappa and Shorey. Guthrie was a horrible fit for a team that is set-up to play hoofball. It was a waste of money to sign him and his attitude had a negative impact on the team. Pogrebnyak is a Premier League calibre player but we are playing him isolated up front to feed off of the scraps, but he has produced some goals somehow. Shorey was our best player early on but fell out of favor, as it seems so many have this season, and now he is nothing more than a spare part. McCleary has shown glimpses but has not been consistent enough to have a major impact. Mariappa might be the best of the Summer signings we made, he has looked solid.

During the January window we picked up Carrico, who got a cameo and then might have got swallowed up by a black hole. Kelly was our best acquisition of the season imho, a steady, solid Premier League quality defender. Akpan was picked up from League 1. He is full of promise but his effectiveness in the games he has played have been mixed. Finally another League 1 pick up Nick Blackman has made no impact at all this season as of yet and I doubt he will for what remains of this campaign.

I guess we probably should have looked for better quality hoofball type of players. And I'm not saying this to be snarky. It is a legitimate style of play and there are some Premier League teams who have stayed up playing some form of it...Stoke jumps to mind. It is boring, there is alot of defending because the style of play results in the ball being given away cheaply, but if you don't mind a bunch of 1-0, 1-1 and 0-0 anti-football, parking the bus when you do get a lead, kinda games while staying up, there is something to be said for it.

As for next season I can see us losing/letting go most if not all of the following players...Guthrie, Pogrebnyak, Pearce, Kebe, Federici, Shorey, Harte, Tabb, Church, and there is an outside chance we might lose Le Fondre if his form picks back up and someone in the Premier League "makes us an offer we can't refuse", though I wouldn't put money on that happening. Much will depend on who wants to stay...

I see us holding onto McAnuff, Hunt, Karacan, Leigertwood and Gorkss since they have shown they can cut it in the Championship. Plus we will have the youngish players we picked up this season in McCleary, Akpan, Blackman and Carrico.

So the core of the team taking shape something like this...with unknown players being added during the Summer depending on who we lose.

GK
McCarthy
Andersen

Defenders
Kelly
Morrison
Mariappa
Gorkss
Cummings

Midfielders
Leigertwood
Karacan
Carrico
McAnuff
Robson-Kanu
McCleary
Akpan

Forwards
Le Fondre
Hunt
Blackman

Now as far as Brian returning goes...I can see him staying on if the decision is made to rebuild the team in the hoofball model a la Stoke. But if we decide that the team will be built around a more possession oriented type of game I can see us getting a new manager in who actually likes that style of play and knows how to set up such a team.

[The Real Sandhurst Royal]

The Real Sandhurst Royal wrote:
McDermott should have cleared the decks he has been to loyal: Tabb, Legs, Harte, Cummings, Church and Gorkss should have all been released at the end of last season.

Two centre backs with Premier League experience and two quality midfielder that could hold the ball were required.

CayeneMatt wrote:This is complete bollox. With the benefit of hindsight, you're close, but at the time Ledge, Harte and Gorkks were on top form and Cummings wasn't playing too badly either. There was no concrete suggestion that they wouldn't cut it in the prem

.

Doylersaroyal wrote: Old Colin saw that Gorkks and Ledge couldn't cut it at Prem level and duly shipped them both out ... we took them, fair to them they did a good job in Championship, but now we've found out what Colin did...what goes around comes around I guess

Legs and Gorkss both released by QPR... Warnock new something McDermott didn’t!!

Tabb, could not get a game last season, he was retained and has played extremely well when he was given his chance.

Church one for the future they have been saying for ages. We have either held the lad back or he is simply not good enough!!

Cummings, block wells but can’t attack nor deliver a ball from right back, he chips it up with no pace, thats why Gunter was bought in and look at what he has contributed. We now have a right back in Kelly thank the lord!!

Harte has been given the chance at 35 to play Premier football again. Whether this is right or wrong we can all debate, for me he should have been released, there is no loyalty in football.

In football when you get the opportunity to clear the decks you do so. We have failed to do this all with McDermott’s working on getting in two players for every position, forgetting how good they were and whether they could cut it at the top level.

[Cripple Creek]

I think what's irritated a lot of people is really that we didn't learn from last time's lessons and appeared to a bit blase imagining that we could manage with what we had plus Guthrie and the Pog (I may be in a minority of one but I actually think these were excellent signings - well, Guthrie would have been if he had been given the chance). Anyway, I'm of the opinion that is a bit academic now (hope I'm wrong) but, truth be told, only those who work behind the scenes have the faintest idea how serious we were about other players - Ince, Sig etc.
My real gripe with this season is that last season's work has been undone (again, hope I'm wrong) but to be honest I'm sure I'm not regretting that half as much as the players and the Brian who did the work, not me.