Jason Roberts nearly back

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Ian Royal
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Re: Jason Roberts nearly back

by Ian Royal » 04 Jan 2014 13:17

Uke Do none of you understand contractual obligations?

Do you think they can be broken, just like that? (At no extra cost)

And how much money will we save by "paying up his contract" in full.

Pragmatism says keep until the end of the season

My complaint is with whoever allowed a clause where one of our oldest and highest earners could activate a year extension half way through a season of failure, whilst long-term injured and having contributed virtually nothing. It's also with Roberts for doing it and sticking it out here when he probably could have just retired, taken an insurance payout and gone into media work full time.

Fair enough he's looking after number one. But at the detriment of RFC. And it's them I support, not him.

In all probability he could still have retired, dropped off our wage bill and taken the payout at any point in the last six months. Instead, his presence is actively harming us by tying up money and squad space we could use with someone who might actually get on the pitch.

Clearly there's nothing we can do about it now. But Roberts has used up all my goodwill from his contribution to our promotion and then some. I wish he'd just oxf*rd off.

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Re: Jason Roberts nearly back

by MmmMonsterMunch » 04 Jan 2014 13:22

Why doesn't the club just pay off his contract and be done with it? Like RoyalBlue said as well as wages, he is probably costing a fair old whack in medical & physio bills too.

Let him pay for that himself!

BEST case he is fit by say end of March & we get 6-8 games out of him. Utterly pointless - Just get him out.

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Re: Jason Roberts nearly back

by MmmMonsterMunch » 04 Jan 2014 13:24

And also - he could volunteer to do a few coaching sessions or whatever to actually put something back into the club. Not heard any news about him doing that.

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Re: Jason Roberts nearly back

by Barry the bird boggler » 04 Jan 2014 13:38

Perhaps they simply can't pay off his contract while he is injured and undergoing medical treatment which would all be at the expense of the club.

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Re: Jason Roberts nearly back

by RoyalBlue » 04 Jan 2014 13:39

Uke
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Uke Do none of you understand contractual obligations?

Do you think they can be broken, just like that? (At no extra cost)

And how much money will we save by "paying up his contract" in full.

Pragmatism says keep until the end of the season


Depends whether he is really contributing anything to the club now. If not, accept that he will never play again at this level and either pay off his contract or claim on the insurance if that is possible.

Looking at our injury list, our medical team and physios have got enough on their hands already, without having to devote valuable resources to what looks to be (and has done for some time) a very lost cause.


Not really

Non contribution would cost the club the same as minimal contribution

Binning him also sends a message we won't want to send out to players wanting to come here.

At this stage his medical/physio care would be minimal, a review every month at most


That last bit is absolute nonsense. I'm pretty certain a physio will be working with him after every gym/training session and I would wager one of the sports scientists is working with him on a daily basis too.

As for the message sent out to other players, we have stuck with him a very long time and we are not talking someone injured early on/mid career, we are talking an old pro, who has made a very good living out of the game and looks set to continue to do so, who has reached the end of his career at this level. Paying him off/claiming insurance at this stage is hardly treating him badly!


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Re: Jason Roberts nearly back

by MmmMonsterMunch » 04 Jan 2014 13:49

What about the cost of any operations he may have had as well? I'm guessing we paid the bill for that. I don't see any genuine reason why we couldn't pay his contract up & be done with it.

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Re: Jason Roberts nearly back

by Uke » 04 Jan 2014 13:55

I disagree, at this stage of the contract, there really would be minimal input.

Do we know how much training he's doing? I doubt it's daily, there's probably still rest required from the last breakdown.

We often say on here that players are motivated by the desire to play, that they are motivated to get out on a pitch. As a result they will cling to any chance they can get, any glimmer of hope.

I don't have him down as the mercenary people think on here, but retirement can only come from one side and the end of the contract would be an ideal time to hang up his boots.

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Re: Jason Roberts nearly back

by Uke » 04 Jan 2014 13:58

MmmMonsterMunch What about the cost of any operations he may have had as well? I'm guessing we paid the bill for that. I don't see any genuine reason why we couldn't pay his contract up & be done with it.


That would definitely be on an insurance of some sort. Most likely his own as he is an independent contractor.

We may only have had the right to approve the specialists he attends.

It makes no difference paying up now or paying up at the end, it is better the cash remains in the RFC bank though rather than paying everything upfront in advance.

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Re: Jason Roberts nearly back

by MmmMonsterMunch » 04 Jan 2014 14:25

Uke I disagree, at this stage of the contract, there really would be minimal input.

Do we know how much training he's doing? I doubt it's daily, there's probably still rest required from the last breakdown.

We often say on here that players are motivated by the desire to play, that they are motivated to get out on a pitch. As a result they will cling to any chance they can get, any glimmer of hope.

I don't have him down as the mercenary people think on here, but retirement can only come from one side and the end of the contract would be an ideal time to hang up his boots.


TBH I'm not calling him that either & he had a massive hand in getting us up for which I am grateful. I just think it's best he goes...


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Re: Jason Roberts nearly back

by RoyalBlue » 04 Jan 2014 15:15

Uke I disagree, at this stage of the contract, there really would be minimal input.

Do we know how much training he's doing? I doubt it's daily, there's probably still rest required from the last breakdown.

We often say on here that players are motivated by the desire to play, that they are motivated to get out on a pitch. As a result they will cling to any chance they can get, any glimmer of hope.

I don't have him down as the mercenary people think on here, but retirement can only come from one side and the end of the contract would be an ideal time to hang up his boots.


All the time that he was doing light training they would have been working with him. Now he is back (according to him) doing rehab in the gym, they will be working with him. I know how much support one of my kids has had when injured (it is of that level) and they are not playing/employed at the same level as Roberts.

As for what he's contributing, our current fit players are photographed out working in the community on top of training and playing matches. Has anyone seem many pictures of Roberts doing the same (for Reading FC his current employer, as opposed to his own causes)?

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Re: Jason Roberts nearly back

by Uke » 04 Jan 2014 15:51

But he's hardly going to have a physio on him full time, and there's only a certain amount of support hours a physio can give before it doesn't have any additional benefit. Otherwise we pay physios to sit around doing nothing.

If our physios have the capacity, and we have heard nothing to indicate they are over stretched, then we should be having them do what we pay their wages for so that Roberts may be able to do what we pay his wages for.

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Re: Jason Roberts nearly back

by Royal Rother » 04 Jan 2014 16:17

Uke That would definitely be on an insurance of some sort. Most likely his own as he is an independent contractor.


Is he not an employee? :shock:

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Re: Jason Roberts nearly back

by Uke » 04 Jan 2014 16:20

Royal Rother
Uke That would definitely be on an insurance of some sort. Most likely his own as he is an independent contractor.


Is he not an employee? :shock:


On a fixed term contract?

IIRC most pro footballers are contractors. Tax purposes, image rights, etc.


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Re: Jason Roberts nearly back

by Royal Rother » 04 Jan 2014 16:27

When clubs go bust the largest creditor is usually HMRC re unpaid PAYE.

Players are surely employees. I accept image rights etc. might be done through separate vehicles but the wages for playing contracts must be taxed. Surely.....?

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Re: Jason Roberts nearly back

by Uke » 04 Jan 2014 16:42

If a player is a contractor the tax can be paid at the club's end

Or by the contractor.

One thing they would need to show is the existence of many clients, such as the BBC, Kick it Out, Sky, etc...

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Re: Jason Roberts nearly back

by Royal Rother » 04 Jan 2014 16:53

I am of course aware that there are all kind of tax schemes around to assist multi-millionaires maximise their net income but this seems pretty unequivocal to me:

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/eimanual/EIM64100.htm

"Association footballers are described as either contract players or non-contract players. The terms professional and amateur are seldom used.

A contract player serves under a written contract of service and receives remuneration that is taxable as employment income. Normally a non-contract player receives no payment for playing but may receive reimbursement of actual travelling and other out- of-pocket expenses."

I am no tax accountant but I wonder whether your views are based on how things were a decade or so back before loopholes were closed???

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Re: Jason Roberts nearly back

by Uke » 04 Jan 2014 16:59

What if RFC pay Jason Roberts Ltd?

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Re: Jason Roberts nearly back

by Royal Rother » 04 Jan 2014 17:05

They can't.

Is how I read it.

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Re: Jason Roberts nearly back

by No Fixed Abode » 04 Jan 2014 17:47

LoyalRoyalFan
No Fixed Abode :lol:

Ok, so he's not played for a season and a half.

You carry on praying his wages :lol:


We are contractually obliged to do so, why are you so interested in this? Don't Chelsea pay Torres upwards to £200,000 a week for him not to turn up.


28 goals for Torres last season. 7 so far this season.
1 European cup
1 FA Cup
1 UEFA cup

A slightly bigger contribution than the righteous and holy Mr Roberts.

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Re: Jason Roberts nearly back

by LoyalRoyalFan » 04 Jan 2014 17:49

No Fixed Abode
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No Fixed Abode :lol:

Ok, so he's not played for a season and a half.

You carry on praying his wages :lol:


We are contractually obliged to do so, why are you so interested in this? Don't Chelsea pay Torres upwards to £200,000 a week for him not to turn up.


28 goals for Torres last season. 7 so far this season.
1 European cup
1 FA Cup
1 UEFA cup

A slightly bigger contribution than the righteous and holy Mr Roberts.


I haven't seen Torres making significant contributions to tackling racism, at least Jason gets involved in community projects and such.

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