Adkins: 'I don't think Reading can reach 100 goal target"

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melonhead
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Re: Adkins: 'I don't think Reading can reach 100 goal target

by melonhead » 09 Sep 2013 16:58

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Inaccurate.
I believe we were looking to bring in 7 players during the transfer window.
This was scaled down to 3 for the last weekend of the window.

And what about this from Zingarevich (after the 3 initial signings):
"It is not the end in terms of signings," Zingarevich told BBC Radio Berkshire. "We have six weeks to go and we need to do a little bit more business."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23377556

"It is not the end in terms of signings" = a firm categorical statement that there will be more signings not an aim or an objective that the club is looking to make more signings.
Ian Royal -I'd like to hear your thoughts about how this was also not a failed promise form the club.


scaled down to 3, cos we'd already got three you massive clown :|


I know why it was scaled down to three. I'm not a clown thanks.
My point was that it was never a case of 2 or 3 for the whole transfer window.
It was 2 or 3 for the last weekend of the transfer window.


yeah, scaled down from 7 to three, cos wed already got in 3 of the 7 before the last day :|
seems a bit pointless mentioning it if it didnt mean anything

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Re: Adkins: 'I don't think Reading can reach 100 goal target

by melonhead » 09 Sep 2013 17:02

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Cypry It's a ridiculous exercise in points scoring, you obviously have some kind of axe to grind with the club, or the new administration, otherwise you simply wouldn't bother...

We obviously had the INTENT to sign more players, and failed. That, however, is all that what he said shows.

My beef is with those who quote Anton verbatim and then try to use it to demonstrate that we've been lied to, or claim the club never had any intention of signing anyone, or maintain we'd only pay peanuts, so had no chance in the first place. It's a ridiculous exercise in beating up the club for the sake of it - I sometimes wonder how some people can describe themselves as "supporters" when all they want to do is find their next reason to slate the club....


I don't have an axe to grind with the club, this quote is merely to shut up the 'they never said this, they never said that' crowd.
Even after I've provided a quote from Anton, you still won't admit that he said it.

People like you have been shouting down people over the last week or so; accusing them of being thick and deluded because they believed the club had pretty much guaranteed another signing.

On the basis of this quote, "It is not the end in terms of signings," Zingarevich told BBC Radio Berkshire. "We have six weeks to go and we need to do a little bit more business", it is entirely reasonable that many people believed the club had pretty much guaranteed another signing.

Now accept that, so we can move on, rather than persisting with this 'they never said this, they never said that' charade.
I'm not slating the club, I'm slating you.


lol. not denying he said it at all.

if we sign someone on a free or on loan over the next week or so that statement with the categorical 'it is' will still be true.
also- i didnt hear the interview, so have no idea if he really said that exactly, or whether its been changed slightly as can happen in the written press :D

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Re: Adkins: 'I don't think Reading can reach 100 goal target

by Cypry » 09 Sep 2013 17:15

Extended-Phenotype So in all this broken English and misinterpretation, what exactly did they mean to say?

I mean, was it to do with football at all? Or was Anton trying to give us gardening advice?

For the record, it's odd as f/ck when the defence starts to sound crazier than the conspiracy.


Have you ever heard Anton interviewed?

His English is far from perfect - FACT - it doesn't matter where he was educated, or how good his English should be.

Yet despite this, there are people who want to try to argue that the club have mislead us in some way, and that Anton PROMISED signings.

How am I crazy to suggest that it's foolish to take what he says LITERALLY, and that it might be a better idea to cut him a bit of slack given that he doesn't speak English as his first language?

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Re: Adkins: 'I don't think Reading can reach 100 goal target

by kwik-silva » 09 Sep 2013 17:26

Cureton's Volley Championship Winner 13/14

Reading 9/1 :shock: :shock: :shock:

We've shortened since pre-season where we were 11's then 10's!


Yes, and that's because - despite all the oxf*rd moaning on here - we're still 9th in the league and notoriously slow starters.

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Re: Adkins: 'I don't think Reading can reach 100 goal target

by P!ssed Off » 09 Sep 2013 17:28

melonhead
P!ssed Off I don't have an axe to grind with the club, this quote is merely to shut up the 'they never said this, they never said that' crowd.
Even after I've provided a quote from Anton, you still won't admit that he said it.

People like you have been shouting down people over the last week or so; accusing them of being thick and deluded because they believed the club had pretty much guaranteed another signing.

On the basis of this quote, "It is not the end in terms of signings," Zingarevich told BBC Radio Berkshire. "We have six weeks to go and we need to do a little bit more business", it is entirely reasonable that many people believed the club had pretty much guaranteed another signing.

Now accept that, so we can move on, rather than persisting with this 'they never said this, they never said that' charade.
I'm not slating the club, I'm slating you.


lol. not denying he said it at all.

if we sign someone on a free or on loan over the next week or so that statement with the categorical 'it is' will still be true.
also- i didnt hear the interview, so have no idea if he really said that exactly, or whether its been changed slightly as can happen in the written press :D


As I pointed out to Ian Royal:
"It is not the end in terms of signings," Zingarevich told BBC Radio Berkshire. "We have six weeks to go and we need to do a little bit more business"
The interview was given on 19th July 2013. The '6 weeks' clearly refers to the Transfer Window that has now closed, therefore it is impossible to fulfill the categorical statement. The timescale given, has now passed.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23377556


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Re: Adkins: 'I don't think Reading can reach 100 goal target

by Extended-Phenotype » 09 Sep 2013 17:33

melonhead
now i know you arent a total idiot, so ill give you some benefit of my large doubts about this post.


its pretty clear that in your scenario, the vast majority of things that could influence whether you achieve your aim or not are completely within your control. in that scenario you are correct, and your boss would be within rights to be miffed if you missed it.
because you aren't competing with other people to meet that deadline. its not a race.
because signing a player is nothing like meeting a deadline.
because a deadline isnt interested in how much it gets paid, or the relative level of the company compared to its competitors.

stuff like that.


be miffe and frustrated all you like, but calling for hammond/NA/AZ to go is oxf*rd moronic


Comparisons tend to be between two different states. It doesn’t really work if you can only compare a state to itself. I mean, I expect you will draw many, many similarities, but then that isn’t particularly helpful it being measured against the exact same thing. So people tend to, in order to fulfil the ambition of a comparison, compare one state with something else. Sure, this can be confusing as now you have two things to think about instead of one, and they will have differences them being different things. But they will have similarities and these are what we draw from a comparison, in the hope that we can look at the original state in a new way.

A football club signing players is certainly a lot like a football club signing players but I’m not sure that gives us any particular new angle with which to examine it – so sorry if that’s a bit advanced for you, mate.

Other points; if meeting my deadline could be influenced by factors outside of my control, I’d probably mention them in my initial pledge.

“I intend to have the fence painted by Friday, unless it rains, which it is certain to, a bit like how price and desire to play for a different club are certain to play a part in a club signing players, though I appreciate boss, the two situations may harbour differences as well as similarities”.

“Of course they would; I’m not a complete idiot – you are drawing a comparison. Only a f/cking moron would compare one state with the exact same identical state.”

“Quite.”


Oh and I haven’t said I wanted Hammond or anyone to be fired. I just said I think the club overplayed their ambitions a bit to sound more attractive.
Last edited by Extended-Phenotype on 09 Sep 2013 17:36, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Adkins: 'I don't think Reading can reach 100 goal target

by Extended-Phenotype » 09 Sep 2013 17:34

Cypry
Extended-Phenotype So in all this broken English and misinterpretation, what exactly did they mean to say?

I mean, was it to do with football at all? Or was Anton trying to give us gardening advice?

For the record, it's odd as f/ck when the defence starts to sound crazier than the conspiracy.


Have you ever heard Anton interviewed?

His English is far from perfect - FACT - it doesn't matter where he was educated, or how good his English should be.

Yet despite this, there are people who want to try to argue that the club have mislead us in some way, and that Anton PROMISED signings.

How am I crazy to suggest that it's foolish to take what he says LITERALLY, and that it might be a better idea to cut him a bit of slack given that he doesn't speak English as his first language?



:lol: :lol:

Oh my God, you are serious!

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Re: Adkins: 'I don't think Reading can reach 100 goal target

by sandman » 09 Sep 2013 17:35

Looks like our Anton needs to buy himself a translator.

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Re: Adkins: 'I don't think Reading can reach 100 goal target

by P!ssed Off » 09 Sep 2013 17:36

Cypry
Extended-Phenotype So in all this broken English and misinterpretation, what exactly did they mean to say?

I mean, was it to do with football at all? Or was Anton trying to give us gardening advice?

For the record, it's odd as f/ck when the defence starts to sound crazier than the conspiracy.


Have you ever heard Anton interviewed?

His English is far from perfect - FACT - it doesn't matter where he was educated, or how good his English should be.

Yet despite this, there are people who want to try to argue that the club have mislead us in some way, and that Anton PROMISED signings.

How am I crazy to suggest that it's foolish to take what he says LITERALLY, and that it might be a better idea to cut him a bit of slack given that he doesn't speak English as his first language?


For me it's not a question of whether anyone has been mislead or lied to.
Many posters on here have been continually saying that the club never said we would definitely sign anyone else.
This categorical statement proves otherwise.

You can argue "he doesn't speak very good English", or "he didn't mean it like that" all you like. The evidence is clear.
Did anyone from the club give a categorical statement that there would be at least one further signing, after the initial three, during the Transfer Window? Yes they did:
Anton Zingarevich: "It is not the end in terms of signings. We have six weeks to go and we need to do a little bit more business." - July 19th 2013

Case Closed.


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Re: Adkins: 'I don't think Reading can reach 100 goal target

by melonhead » 09 Sep 2013 17:39

Extended-Phenotype
melonhead
now i know you arent a total idiot, so ill give you some benefit of my large doubts about this post.


its pretty clear that in your scenario, the vast majority of things that could influence whether you achieve your aim or not are completely within your control. in that scenario you are correct, and your boss would be within rights to be miffed if you missed it.
because you aren't competing with other people to meet that deadline. its not a race.
because signing a player is nothing like meeting a deadline.
because a deadline isnt interested in how much it gets paid, or the relative level of the company compared to its competitors.

stuff like that.


be miffe and frustrated all you like, but calling for hammond/NA/AZ to go is oxf*rd moronic


Comparisons tend to be between two different states. It doesn’t really work if you can only compare a state to itself. I mean, I expect you will draw many, many similarities, but then that isn’t particularly helpful it being measured against the exact same thing. So people tend to, in order to fulfil the ambition of a comparison, compare one state with something else. Sure, this can be confusing as now you have two things to think about instead of one, and they will have differences them being different things. But they will have similarities and these are what we draw from a comparison, in the hope that we can look at the original state in a new way.

A football club signing players is certainly a lot like a football club signing players but I’m not sure that gives us any particular new angle with which to examine it – so sorry if that’s a bit advanced for you, mate.

Other points; if meeting my deadline could be influenced by factors outside of my control, I’d probably mention them in my initial pledge.

“I intend to have the fence painted by Friday, unless it rains, which it is certain to, a bit like how price and desire to play for a different club are certain to play a part in a club signing players, though I appreciate boss, the two situations may harbour differences as well as similarities”.

“Of course they would; I’m not a complete idiot – you are drawing a comparison. Only a f/cking moron would compare one state with the exact same identical state.”

“Quite.”


Oh and I haven’t said I wanted Hammond or anyone to be fired. Nice try though.


but when the final conclusion is incorrect based on flawed reasoning precisely because the two scenarios are not comparable, then it bears mentioning.


the point you made is that it is ok for the fans to berate NH/NA/AZ because if you missed a deadline it would be ok for your boss to berate you
i simply listed a few reasons why i thought it was not a good comparison to make.

your further arguments about comparing different things are a bit odd.
what you are saying is that i can berate a fish because it cannot breath fire, because i compared it to a dragon, cos they both have scales.

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Re: Adkins: 'I don't think Reading can reach 100 goal target

by melonhead » 09 Sep 2013 17:41

case isnt closed till i hear the tapes of the interview, and have them varified as untampered with by the worlds foremost audio media editing experts

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Re: Adkins: 'I don't think Reading can reach 100 goal target

by P!ssed Off » 09 Sep 2013 17:45

Cypry
Extended-Phenotype So in all this broken English and misinterpretation, what exactly did they mean to say?

I mean, was it to do with football at all? Or was Anton trying to give us gardening advice?

For the record, it's odd as f/ck when the defence starts to sound crazier than the conspiracy.


Have you ever heard Anton interviewed?

His English is far from perfect - FACT - it doesn't matter where he was educated, or how good his English should be.

Yet despite this, there are people who want to try to argue that the club have mislead us in some way, and that Anton PROMISED signings.

How am I crazy to suggest that it's foolish to take what he says LITERALLY, and that it might be a better idea to cut him a bit of slack given that he doesn't speak English as his first language?


I'm not going to accuse you of racism or anything as serious as that.
However, it appears your claims are based on nothing but his accent.

At university I have many Eastern European friends, including one Russian.
My Russian friend, similarly to Zingarevich's education, has now been in the country for 3 years: 1 year at a a college, 2 at university.
He writes essays in English, he completes exams in English, he reads books in English, 99% of the people he talks to, he talks to in English.
If I was to say to him "I'm not going to take what you say literally, because English is not your first language" I think he might be a bit offended.
Last edited by P!ssed Off on 09 Sep 2013 17:48, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Adkins: 'I don't think Reading can reach 100 goal target

by P!ssed Off » 09 Sep 2013 17:47

melonhead case isnt closed till i hear the tapes of the interview, and have them varified as untampered with by the worlds foremost audio media editing experts


Melonhead vs the BBC

I think the case is closed, mate. :wink:


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Re: Adkins: 'I don't think Reading can reach 100 goal target

by Extended-Phenotype » 09 Sep 2013 17:59

melonhead but when the final conclusion is incorrect based on flawed reasoning precisely because the two scenarios are not comparable, then it bears mentioning.


the point you made is that it is ok for the fans to berate NH/NA/AZ because if you missed a deadline it would be ok for your boss to berate you
i simply listed a few reasons why i thought it was not a good comparison to make.

your further arguments about comparing different things are a bit odd.
what you are saying is that i can berate a fish because it cannot breath fire, because i compared it to a dragon, cos they both have scales.


I like it. But it doesn't really work in this situation because I'm comparing the scenario of one person giving assurances and another person giving assurances, and that with assurances I believe you should be clear.

If I say to somebody I'll bake them a loaf of bread for tomorrow, it would be fair enough if tomorrow, empty handed, I come back with "wow, I'm afraid that was harder than I thought" - unless I'm a f/cking baker.

The club portrayed a confidence in meeting their target and I think it was misleading.

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Re: Adkins: 'I don't think Reading can reach 100 goal target

by Mike Hunt » 09 Sep 2013 18:00

Cypry - "If Wigan and QPR can spend money, why can't we, after all, we have parachute payments as well?" As I've repeatedly pointed out, both Wigan and QPR made significant sums early in the Summer with the sales of Kone and Samba respectively. We made no such sales, with our only significant income coming in the last week of the Window (an income which I believe is vastly over-stated at £5M anyway) and we wouldn't have had time to include that income in our budgeting anyway given that both deals were finalised so late....


Although I agree with your points, I read somewhere that QPR actually hadn't paid for Samba in full, so they did not receive 12m. Not sure if that is correct or not thought.

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Re: Adkins: 'I don't think Reading can reach 100 goal target

by Man Friday » 09 Sep 2013 18:03

Cypry How am I crazy to suggest that it's foolish to take what he says LITERALLY

When he makes an unambiguous, categoric statement, it's hard not to take it literally. Some of his statements concerning his desire to sign players have been pretty darned categoric. A lawyer you would not make.

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Re: Adkins: 'I don't think Reading can reach 100 goal target

by Ian Royal » 09 Sep 2013 18:36

Is this mongfest still going?

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Re: Adkins: 'I don't think Reading can reach 100 goal target

by Cypry » 09 Sep 2013 20:02

I give up - I don't see the World as black and white, rather shades of grey, something which obviously escapes some....

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Re: Adkins: 'I don't think Reading can reach 100 goal target

by tmesis » 09 Sep 2013 21:01

Extended-Phenotype The club portrayed a confidence in meeting their target and I think it was misleading.


It really boils down to whether you believe they thought they were going to get players in or not.

You can fully intend to do something, and be confident you will achieve it, and still not achieve it.

If you don't achieve it, you haven't mislead anybody unless you were lying when you said you thought you would succeed.


Now either you believe that

a) Reading thought they'd bring players in, but just couldn't pull off the deals

...or...

b) Reading fc were lying, and didn't believe they'd be bringing players in.

Anyone complaining about being mislead or lied to, who doesn't believe option b, is just being a bell-end.

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Re: Adkins: 'I don't think Reading can reach 100 goal target

by Ian Royal » 09 Sep 2013 21:04

I'd probably add that anyone who believes option b is also a bellend.

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