Rival Watch

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Simmops
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Re: Rival Watch

by Simmops » 21 Sep 2020 17:01

Media shit storm brewing as QPR and Coventry have decided to not take the knee in BLM support on friday

Old Man Andrews

Re: Rival Watch

by Old Man Andrews » 21 Sep 2020 17:22

It isn't and QPR have explained it in a statement.

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Re: Rival Watch

by Simmops » 21 Sep 2020 18:09

Old Man Andrews It isn't and QPR have explained it in a statement.


Yes there is. HTH.

windermereROYAL
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Re: Rival Watch

by windermereROYAL » 21 Sep 2020 18:17

Hope more teams do it, it`s a bloody choice not mandatory. keep politics out of football.

Old Man Andrews

Re: Rival Watch

by Old Man Andrews » 21 Sep 2020 18:23

windermereROYAL Hope more teams do it, it`s a bloody choice not mandatory. keep politics out of football.

It isn't political, it is a social issue that everyone who isn't racist should be in support of.

Do you not think black lives matter?


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Re: Rival Watch

by Snowball » 21 Sep 2020 18:48

I think Black Lives Matter.

I have looked after, so far, eight black refugees.

For a while I studied Islam, have had a Muslim GF, and my daughter is in a long-term relationship with a British Pakistani Muslim guy.

I think the BLM protests are right and should have happened.

BUT

What tends to happen with most protests nowadays is they seem to get a Fascist turn where , If you don’t join us then we will out you, maybe make you lose your job etc.

For decades, ex forces myself (7.5 years) I never missed buying a poppy. Now I refuse to have anything whatever to do with the whole thing. It’s commercialised, pumped up, jingoistic, loved by the far right etc

Fight for freedom including freedom to NOT wear a poppy.

You can genuinely care about BLM yet NOT like the orchestrated almost forced situations (like before games) where some individuals, whether white racists, or black or somewhere between, feel obligated to kneel because if they don’t fingers will point or worse

We see the same unfree thing going on with Prostate Cancer (are pundits going to wear that badge forever?)

Following a cause is great. Being FORCED TO by social pressure STINKS

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Re: Rival Watch

by windermereROYAL » 21 Sep 2020 19:06

Old Man Andrews
windermereROYAL Hope more teams do it, it`s a bloody choice not mandatory. keep politics out of football.

It isn't political, it is a social issue that everyone who isn't racist should be in support of.

Do you not think black lives matter?


I do, but i believe the knee shouldn`t continue indefinately. the end of last season got the message across loud and clear.

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Zip
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Re: Rival Watch

by Zip » 21 Sep 2020 19:19

Snowball I think Black Lives Matter.

I have looked after, so far, eight black refugees.

For a while I studied Islam, have had a Muslim GF, and my daughter is in a long-term relationship with a British Pakistani Muslim guy.

I think the BLM protests are right and should have happened.

BUT

What tends to happen with most protests nowadays is they seem to get a Fascist turn where , If you don’t join us then we will out you, maybe make you lose your job etc.

For decades, ex forces myself (7.5 years) I never missed buying a poppy. Now I refuse to have anything whatever to do with the whole thing. It’s commercialised, pumped up, jingoistic, loved by the far right etc

Fight for freedom including freedom to NOT wear a poppy.

You can genuinely care about BLM yet NOT like the orchestrated almost forced situations (like before games) where some individuals, whether white racists, or black or somewhere between, feel obligated to kneel because if they don’t fingers will point or worse

We see the same unfree thing going on with Prostate Cancer (are pundits going to wear that badge forever?)

Following a cause is great. Being FORCED TO by social pressure STINKS


I’m happy if it continues but fully get where you are coming from. Good post Snowers.

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Snowflake Royal
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Re: Rival Watch

by Snowflake Royal » 21 Sep 2020 19:27

I think there are probably a fair few people for who it isn't true that last season did the job in getting the message across. Racists gonna racist and people from black and other ethnic minority groups are on record saying they don't want more gestures of solidarity that quickly evaporate after the initial flurry of controversy without real change occurring.

I'm nervous of enforced symbols of support, but it strikes me as not particularly unreasonable to expect overt solidarity to continue to be shown to keep the message at the forefront until there's actual real change.

At the end of the day, I might not agree with a message, or the need for a symbol, but I'm certainly going to show respect and participate if it's going on around me and I'm present. What harm does it do? Absolutely none. And I can't see why anyone who is against racial discrimination and supportive of BLM would be upset by it continuing.

If I'm in a crowd that's observing a minute's silence or or applause, or in a group that's praying, I don't have to agree with the symbol, the cause or the action. I'm still going to show respect and be quiet, clap or bow my head.

I'm leery of criticising QPR and whoever else, or them getting a lot of flack for not participating, and I don't know their rationale, nor am I particularly interested in. It just seems a bit unnecessary and potentially inflammatory and insensitive at the moment.

It feels like this is something that should be led by the FL, the PFA, Kick it Out etc especially black and ethnic minority players. Rather than individual clubs choosing to continue or stop ad hoc.


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Re: Rival Watch

by Snowball » 21 Sep 2020 20:25

It should NOT be led by the FA or any organisation, that's the point!

It's a personal gesture, and if the FA (for example) says, "You must kneel"
then the gesture isn't real, honest or personal.


Look, had this happened a few years ago, people like John Terry
would be taking the knee. Think about that.

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Re: Rival Watch

by Rax » 21 Sep 2020 20:54

Snowball It should NOT be led by the FA or any organisation, that's the point!

It's a personal gesture, and if the FA (for example) says, "You must kneel"
then the gesture isn't real, honest or personal.


Look, had this happened a few years ago, people like John Terry
would be taking the knee. Think about that.


This is exactly why the enforced "taking a knee" is actually counter productive!

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Snowflake Royal
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Re: Rival Watch

by Snowflake Royal » 21 Sep 2020 21:06

Snowball It should NOT be led by the FA or any organisation, that's the point!

It's a personal gesture, and if the FA (for example) says, "You must kneel"
then the gesture isn't real, honest or personal.


Look, had this happened a few years ago, people like John Terry
would be taking the knee. Think about that.


As in these are the relevant and representative organisations. FL has club representation, PFA has player representation. It should be discussed at those organisations and if the majority favour a symbol to show solidarity then that should be supported by all the clubs collectively. And when to end it agreed collectively.

There's no reason anyone should refuse to join in other than bloody minded resistance. But if that's important to them, stand off at the side of the pitch and come on when it's finished.

Fact is you can't have this sort of thing just done spontaneously by whoever wants to. It's an organised event, any symbol has to be organised. You don't say there shouldn't be minutes silence or applause because someone might not want to join in.

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Re: Rival Watch

by Snowball » 21 Sep 2020 21:27

So if a majority say we should all go to C of E church next Sunday, atheists, agnostics, Jews, Muslims and Catholic etc should go as ordered

Do you really believe all those taking the knee WANT TO take the knee?

I would refuse. I would happily die for my refugees or my “son in law” by fcuk will I kneel when ordered


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Lower West
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Re: Rival Watch

by Lower West » 21 Sep 2020 22:51

Old Man Andrews
windermereROYAL Hope more teams do it, it`s a bloody choice not mandatory. keep politics out of football.

It isn't political, it is a social issue that everyone who isn't racist should be in support of.

Do you not think black lives matter?


People stand on their doorstops to thank the NHS staff. Then a matter of weeks later behave as if Covid is no longer a problem. Insincerity is the problem. Gestures become worthless.

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Re: Rival Watch

by Snowball » 21 Sep 2020 22:56

Lower West
Old Man Andrews
windermereROYAL Hope more teams do it, it`s a bloody choice not mandatory. keep politics out of football.

It isn't political, it is a social issue that everyone who isn't racist should be in support of.

Do you not think black lives matter?


People stand on their doorstops to thank the NHS staff. Then a matter of weeks later behave as if Covid is no longer a problem. Insincerity is the problem. Gestures become worthless.



Well said!

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Snowflake Royal
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Re: Rival Watch

by Snowflake Royal » 21 Sep 2020 23:35

Snowball So if a majority say we should all go to C of E church next Sunday, atheists, agnostics, Jews, Muslims and Catholic etc should go as ordered

Do you really believe all those taking the knee WANT TO take the knee?

I would refuse. I would happily die for my refugees or my “son in law” by fcuk will I kneel when ordered

There's no equivalence.

No one is forcing anyone to do anything. And there's plenty we are required to do because the majority determines we should.

I find it sad that you'd refuse to participate in a gesture of solidarity when present and risk causing offence just so you can do what you want. Seems really rather selfish.

Old Man Andrews

Re: Rival Watch

by Old Man Andrews » 21 Sep 2020 23:48

Lower West
Old Man Andrews
windermereROYAL Hope more teams do it, it`s a bloody choice not mandatory. keep politics out of football.

It isn't political, it is a social issue that everyone who isn't racist should be in support of.

Do you not think black lives matter?


People stand on their doorstops to thank the NHS staff. Then a matter of weeks later behave as if Covid is no longer a problem. Insincerity is the problem. Gestures become worthless.

So because people stood on their doorsteps show appreciation for the NHS they can't go and try to live as normal a life as possible? Grown adults will make their own choices how they go about their lives and the vast majority are getting on with things best they can whilst staying within the guidelines.

It's a shit comparison to make, you know it. You're a very silly person.

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Re: Rival Watch

by Snowball » 22 Sep 2020 04:05

Snowflake Royal
Snowball So if a majority say we should all go to C of E church next Sunday, atheists, agnostics, Jews, Muslims and Catholic etc should go as ordered

Do you really believe all those taking the knee WANT TO take the knee?

I would refuse. I would happily die for my refugees or my “son in law” by fcuk will I kneel when ordered

There's no equivalence.

No one is forcing anyone to do anything. And there's plenty we are required to do because the majority determines we should.

I find it sad that you'd refuse to participate in a gesture of solidarity when present and risk causing offence just so you can do what you want. Seems really rather selfish.


Of course people are being forced

If RDG come out and take the knee and one player refused there would be a furore

There was a furore in F1 when some drivers wanted to behave as individuals rather than sheep

I reiterate, I am totally 100% in favour of BLM. That does NOT mean I’m in favour of coercive methods via social pressure to make people, FORCE people to take the knee.

There will be racist footballers taking the knee. I stand for BLM and stand for players taking the knee

VOLUNTARILY

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Re: Rival Watch

by Snowball » 22 Sep 2020 04:11

I did not clap for the NHS because it was cultish bullshit

But I have told my family that I want to give my 6,000 book library to the NHS if they can find a room for it, as a long term thank you to NHS workers and support staff.

The clapping was an awkward, cultish and embarrassing media event where, for example MPs were forced to do it while reporters looked on, filming

Hypocrisy

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Re: Rival Watch

by Nameless » 22 Sep 2020 07:19

Snowball I did not clap for the NHS because it was cultish bullshit

But I have told my family that I want to give my 6,000 book library to the NHS if they can find a room for it, as a long term thank you to NHS workers and support staff.

The clapping was an awkward, cultish and embarrassing media event where, for example MPs were forced to do it while reporters looked on, filming

Hypocrisy


You are wrong.
There were aspects of the clapping which grated (crowds gathering to clap outside hospitals ?) but for many people it was a hugely positive thing, for many it was the only time they stepped outside or saw other people. We have an NHS worker in our road and they said it gave them a massive boost to hear the noise (despite the fact it woke her up when she really needed to sleep)
There was certainly hypocrisy amongst the politicians and political classes but don’t ignore that for most people it was not filmed, not compulsory, made people smile at a very difficult time.

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