Rival Watch

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Hendo
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Re: Rival Watch

by Hendo » 27 Sep 2022 13:47

Tbf, for any manager it’s a win win going into Watford.

1) do well, all good, get promoted, use the job as a stepping stone.

2) do badly, decent payout after a few months, reputation not really tainted as everyone knows what a basket case Watford have become when it comes to managers.

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Re: Rival Watch

by Nameless » 27 Sep 2022 14:24

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Mr Angry What is the point of a Manager going to Watford? Seriously, what is the point?

Go 3 games without a win, you are sacked.
Not be clear at the top after 10 games, you are sacked.
Lose a couple of games at home, you are sacked.
Get promoted to the Premier League.....start from the top again.

The only reason to go to Watford would be for a stonking salary and a clause that says if (ha! when!!) I am sacked before the end of my contract, you pay me up to the end of my contract plus a chunk more.

Otherwise, what is the point of a Manager going to Watford?

Let's be honest - they aren't a big club are they? having "Watford" on your CV isn't the same as having "Chelsea" on it...... Club Presidents from Madrid to Barcelona, from Milan to Turin, from Amsterdam to Munich aren't going to be saying "oooooohhhh - some bloke no-one has ever heard of has been sacked from Watford after half a dozen games, get him in place as soon as possible!!" are they?

So, what IS the point of a Manager going to Watford?


Because every time a new manager takes over he will be convinced he will be different, that he will succeed and be a hero.

I know people in football aren't necessarily the brightest, but at this point you'd have to be a screaming moron to think that.


Nothing to do with being bright , football is ego driven. Everyone has to believe they are better than the last man, that they can take on the impossible job and make a success of it. No club has EVER failed to get a manager however many they have sacked. Few managers at this level are working out of financial necessity.

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Re: Rival Watch

by Snowflake Royal » 27 Sep 2022 17:35

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Because every time a new manager takes over he will be convinced he will be different, that he will succeed and be a hero.

I know people in football aren't necessarily the brightest, but at this point you'd have to be a screaming moron to think that.


Nothing to do with being bright , football is ego driven. Everyone has to believe they are better than the last man, that they can take on the impossible job and make a success of it. No club has EVER failed to get a manager however many they have sacked. Few managers at this level are working out of financial necessity.

Given success at Watford still only gets you 18 months in charge, ego doesn't come into it. You don’t last successful or not.

You could win the PL with them and you'd be out the door 4/5 months later if you weren't still in the top 4 15 games in.

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Re: Rival Watch

by Stranded » 27 Sep 2022 21:37

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Nameless
Snowflake Royal I know people in football aren't necessarily the brightest, but at this point you'd have to be a screaming moron to think that.


Nothing to do with being bright , football is ego driven. Everyone has to believe they are better than the last man, that they can take on the impossible job and make a success of it. No club has EVER failed to get a manager however many they have sacked. Few managers at this level are working out of financial necessity.

Given success at Watford still only gets you 18 months in charge, ego doesn't come into it. You don’t last successful or not.

You could win the PL with them and you'd be out the door 4/5 months later if you weren't still in the top 4 15 games in.


But you will have won the league with Watford and likely have your pick of jobs.

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Re: Rival Watch

by YorkshireRoyal99 » 28 Sep 2022 13:31

Mark Fotheringham appointed as Huddersfield manager. 38 years old, recently assistant manager at Hertha Berlin under Felix Magath.

That's going one of two ways for me. Really well or disastrous.


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Re: Rival Watch

by Nameless » 28 Sep 2022 13:42

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Snowflake Royal I know people in football aren't necessarily the brightest, but at this point you'd have to be a screaming moron to think that.


Nothing to do with being bright , football is ego driven. Everyone has to believe they are better than the last man, that they can take on the impossible job and make a success of it. No club has EVER failed to get a manager however many they have sacked. Few managers at this level are working out of financial necessity.

Given success at Watford still only gets you 18 months in charge, ego doesn't come into it. You don’t last successful or not.

You could win the PL with them and you'd be out the door 4/5 months later if you weren't still in the top 4 15 games in.


18 months is about the average length of time managers last full stop isn’t it ?
Of course ego comes into it, it’s what drives managers.

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Re: Rival Watch

by Stranded » 28 Sep 2022 16:05

YorkshireRoyal99 Mark Fotheringham appointed as Huddersfield manager. 38 years old, recently assistant manager at Hertha Berlin under Felix Magath.

That's going one of two ways for me. Really well or disastrous.


Incredibly highly thought off over here - there was an expectation that he would take over from Magath probably next summer particularly if Hertha get relegated.

Fair play on the appointment, think he will do well - loving his Scottish/German accent but hopefully Saturday is too soon for him to have any positive impact.

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Re: Rival Watch

by Hound » 28 Sep 2022 21:35

Any particular reasons why so highly thought of? New tactics etc?

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Re: Rival Watch

by Stranded » 29 Sep 2022 08:13

Hound Any particular reasons why so highly thought of? New tactics etc?


Just been a key part of lower league success for Karlsruhe and Ingolstadt always as a co-trainer or #2 but often seen as the brains behind the success hence the move to the Bundesliga with Berlin. First time as his own man now, so will be interesting to see how he goes - after Saturday.

In other news, looks like Rotherham really wanted to appoint Bonner from Cambridge but he has chosen not to leave, mainly as he is a local lad and Cambridge is his club.


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Re: Rival Watch

by Hound » 29 Sep 2022 08:28

Stranded
Hound Any particular reasons why so highly thought of? New tactics etc?


Just been a key part of lower league success for Karlsruhe and Ingolstadt always as a co-trainer or #2 but often seen as the brains behind the success hence the move to the Bundesliga with Berlin. First time as his own man now, so will be interesting to see how he goes - after Saturday.

In other news, looks like Rotherham really wanted to appoint Bonner from Cambridge but he has chosen not to leave, mainly as he is a local lad and Cambridge is his club.


And because it would mean going to Rotherham

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Re: Rival Watch

by tidus_mi2 » 29 Sep 2022 09:16

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Hound Any particular reasons why so highly thought of? New tactics etc?


Just been a key part of lower league success for Karlsruhe and Ingolstadt always as a co-trainer or #2 but often seen as the brains behind the success hence the move to the Bundesliga with Berlin. First time as his own man now, so will be interesting to see how he goes - after Saturday.

In other news, looks like Rotherham really wanted to appoint Bonner from Cambridge but he has chosen not to leave, mainly as he is a local lad and Cambridge is his club.

Isn't that the sort of CV Paul Clement had before he failed utterly as a manager?

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Re: Rival Watch

by YorkshireRoyal99 » 29 Sep 2022 11:03

tidus_mi2
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Hound Any particular reasons why so highly thought of? New tactics etc?


Just been a key part of lower league success for Karlsruhe and Ingolstadt always as a co-trainer or #2 but often seen as the brains behind the success hence the move to the Bundesliga with Berlin. First time as his own man now, so will be interesting to see how he goes - after Saturday.

In other news, looks like Rotherham really wanted to appoint Bonner from Cambridge but he has chosen not to leave, mainly as he is a local lad and Cambridge is his club.

Isn't that the sort of CV Paul Clement had before he failed utterly as a manager?


You could then say it's similar to Neil Critchley who was successful at Blackpool as well, can spin the narrative many ways I suppose.

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Re: Rival Watch

by Mr Angry » 29 Sep 2022 13:39

If Birmingham negotiated a sell on % with Borussia Dortmund when they sold Bellingham in 2020, they are looking at making a shedload of cash if he goes for £130M in the Summer!


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Re: Rival Watch

by tidus_mi2 » 29 Sep 2022 14:11

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Just been a key part of lower league success for Karlsruhe and Ingolstadt always as a co-trainer or #2 but often seen as the brains behind the success hence the move to the Bundesliga with Berlin. First time as his own man now, so will be interesting to see how he goes - after Saturday.

In other news, looks like Rotherham really wanted to appoint Bonner from Cambridge but he has chosen not to leave, mainly as he is a local lad and Cambridge is his club.

Isn't that the sort of CV Paul Clement had before he failed utterly as a manager?


You could then say it's similar to Neil Critchley who was successful at Blackpool as well, can spin the narrative many ways I suppose.

More record of Clement being a failure than Critchley being a success I would say. Seems like Huddersfield don't have much to spend so this might be a cheap gamble.

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Re: Rival Watch

by Brogue » 29 Sep 2022 14:14

Mr Angry If Birmingham negotiated a sell on % with Borussia Dortmund when they sold Bellingham in 2020, they are looking at making a shedload of cash if he goes for £130M in the Summer!


5% - 6.5 mill if he goes for 130mill

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Re: Rival Watch

by Sutekh » 29 Sep 2022 17:56

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Mr Angry If Birmingham negotiated a sell on % with Borussia Dortmund when they sold Bellingham in 2020, they are looking at making a shedload of cash if he goes for £130M in the Summer!


5% - 6.5 mill if he goes for 130mill


Only 5%!

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Re: Rival Watch

by Brogue » 29 Sep 2022 18:05

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Mr Angry If Birmingham negotiated a sell on % with Borussia Dortmund when they sold Bellingham in 2020, they are looking at making a shedload of cash if he goes for £130M in the Summer!


5% - 6.5 mill if he goes for 130mill


Only 5%!


Well I’m not in charge of the purse strings at Birmingham so I cannot confirm this 100% but that’s what the papers are quoting when I googled it.

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Re: Rival Watch

by Snowflake Royal » 29 Sep 2022 18:36

It's not like they got a small fee was it.

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Re: Rival Watch

by SCIAG » 29 Sep 2022 18:42

tidus_mi2
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Hound Any particular reasons why so highly thought of? New tactics etc?


Just been a key part of lower league success for Karlsruhe and Ingolstadt always as a co-trainer or #2 but often seen as the brains behind the success hence the move to the Bundesliga with Berlin. First time as his own man now, so will be interesting to see how he goes - after Saturday.

In other news, looks like Rotherham really wanted to appoint Bonner from Cambridge but he has chosen not to leave, mainly as he is a local lad and Cambridge is his club.

Isn't that the sort of CV Paul Clement had before he failed utterly as a manager?

Clement was a coach attached to an elite manager.

I'd say it sounds more similar to someone like Wally Downes for example - lower league coach with a track record in his own right.

Lots of examples you could point to either way - Bob Paisley, Brendan Rodgers, Jose Mourinho, and Brian McDermott all successfully jumped from backroom roles to head coach, while plenty more flopped (I instinctively think of Sammy Lee, Craig Shakespeare, Mike Phelan, and Les Reed, maybe you could throw Roy Evans in there too). Wouldn't rush to judgement based on his CV.

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Re: Rival Watch

by tidus_mi2 » 30 Sep 2022 12:42

Hull Owner: Do I sack Shota early on in this International break? Nah, I'll sack him on the first matchday back lol

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