Stam Gone

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Zip
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Re: Stam Gone

by Zip » 21 Mar 2018 20:09

Old Man Andrews
Zip
Old Man Andrews It isn't obvious in the slightest. The players have to look to be sad the manager has gone and the majority of them don't run their own accounts any way.



You appear to be the one talking bollocks. Jonathan Low says the players apparently loved working with Stam. If he had lost the dressing room we would have heard up about bust ups. There would have been signs of player dissent in the pitch. There was none of that.


There was lots of it actually, try watching the games.

Any sentence that starts with "Jonathan Low said..." isn't credible I'm afraid. He knows less than you do about the goings on at the club.


:lol: No there hasn’t been. I suggest you try watching. Anyway my dicks bigger than yours so I’m right.

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Re: Stam Gone

by Denver Royal » 21 Mar 2018 20:10

Zip
Old Man Andrews
Snowflake Royal Maybe nothing if he'd lost the dressing room, which he obviously hadn't. The only thing he'd lost was the plot.

It isn't obvious in the slightest. The players have to look to be sad the manager has gone and the majority of them don't run their own accounts any way.


You appear to be the one talking bollocks. Jonathan Low says the players apparently loved working with Stam. If he had lost the dressing room we would have heard up about bust ups. There would have been signs of player dissent in the pitch. There was none of that.


OMA, so you are skeptical, or even outright dismissive, and that's fine. You may be right. So, how would we know then, if they actually WERE happy with him? Would we never know? Or are you waiting to see or hear something, some sort of confirmation, that we haven't yet? Realistically, what would it take for you to be convinced?
Last edited by Denver Royal on 21 Mar 2018 20:17, edited 2 times in total.

Awayawayaway

Re: Stam Gone

by Awayawayaway » 21 Mar 2018 20:12

Zip, I think most people on here would agree with most of your points. You've always been a solid poster.

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Re: Stam Gone

by Zip » 21 Mar 2018 20:17

Denver Royal
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Old Man Andrews It isn't obvious in the slightest. The players have to look to be sad the manager has gone and the majority of them don't run their own accounts any way.


You appear to be the one talking bollocks. Jonathan Low says the players apparently loved working with Stam. If he had lost the dressing room we would have heard up about bust ups. There would have been signs of player dissent in the pitch. There was none of that.


OMA, so you are skeptical, or even outright dismissive, and that's fine. You may be right. So, how would we know then, if they actually WERE happy with him? Would we never know? Or are you waiting to see or hear something, some sort of confirmation, that we haven't yet?


We have seen Gunter racing over to Stam when he scored against Burton. Moore “gutted” he has gone. Kelly and Harriott saying how much they learned under Stam. Joey saying he was still the man to lead the club yesterday. McCleary saying the players were accountable. The local reporter saying they loved playing for him.
Danny Williams saying he was a top man. They have all thanked him for what he did for them.

On balance I don’t think he lost the dressing room somehow.

Awayawayaway

Re: Stam Gone

by Awayawayaway » 21 Mar 2018 20:22

There was no sign that the players were unhappy with Stam. All signs were that they fully supported him.

It was Jaaps tactical jeneus that was the issue.


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Re: Stam Gone

by Old Man Andrews » 21 Mar 2018 20:23

Zip
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Zip
You appear to be the one talking bollocks. Jonathan Low says the players apparently loved working with Stam. If he had lost the dressing room we would have heard up about bust ups. There would have been signs of player dissent in the pitch. There was none of that.


OMA, so you are skeptical, or even outright dismissive, and that's fine. You may be right. So, how would we know then, if they actually WERE happy with him? Would we never know? Or are you waiting to see or hear something, some sort of confirmation, that we haven't yet?


We have seen Gunter racing over to Stam when he scored against Burton. Moore “gutted” he has gone. Kelly and Harriott saying how much they learned under Stam. Joey saying he was still the man to lead the club yesterday. McCleary saying the players were accountable. The local reporter saying they loved playing for him.
Danny Williams saying he was a top man. They have all thanked him for what he did for them.

On balance I don’t think he lost the dressing room somehow.


All of those responses written by the players agents or whoever runs their social media accounts. Gunter is like a dog, he will be loyal to his owner no matter what and no matter who it is.

You are so naive. All footballers do this sort of thing when a manager leaves, it makes them look good on social media.

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Re: Stam Gone

by Zip » 21 Mar 2018 20:27

Old Man Andrews
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OMA, so you are skeptical, or even outright dismissive, and that's fine. You may be right. So, how would we know then, if they actually WERE happy with him? Would we never know? Or are you waiting to see or hear something, some sort of confirmation, that we haven't yet?


We have seen Gunter racing over to Stam when he scored against Burton. Moore “gutted” he has gone. Kelly and Harriott saying how much they learned under Stam. Joey saying he was still the man to lead the club yesterday. McCleary saying the players were accountable. The local reporter saying they loved playing for him.
Danny Williams saying he was a top man. They have all thanked him for what he did for them.

On balance I don’t think he lost the dressing room somehow.


All of those responses written by the players agents or whoever runs their social media accounts. Gunter is like a dog, he will be loyal to his owner no matter what and no matter who it is.

You are so naive. All footballers do this sort of thing when a manager leaves, it makes them look good on social media.



Where is the evidence he lost the dressing room? You have none. You are just guessing. How do you know the players agents posted those responses? You can’t evidence any of this and until you can I will be happily disagree with you.

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Re: Stam Gone

by Eaststandman » 21 Mar 2018 20:29

He has most definitely lost the dressing room HTH!

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Re: Stam Gone

by CountryRoyal » 21 Mar 2018 20:38

Its not a black or white situation. Had he lost the dressing room to the point of animosity, disputes and bust ups? Not to our knowledge with any evidence presented to us. Had he lost the dressing room to the point of players woefully under performing, not carrying out his instructions and not doing enough to avoid the situation? Yes, in my opinion.

The fact is, it is all speculative. We can't use what little we see as confirmation of either argument.


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Re: Stam Gone

by double d » 21 Mar 2018 20:43

Stam had not lost the dressing room at all. I have it on very good authority he was in there after the Norwich game.

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Re: Stam Gone

by Dr_Hfuhruhurr » 21 Mar 2018 20:45

Well this is a mess.

With 8 games to go and only 3 points above the relegation zone, any manager applying for the role doesnt know if we are a championship or League 1 club next year; and, as Adkins did, has the luxury of steering us to relegation without taking responsibility for it. Its not as bad as the McDermott decision, but Im definitely reserving any judgement until I see what actual masterstroke the club is going to pull here.

It seems obvious to me, and Im not even saying this with the benefit of hindsight, its always has seemed obvious that we had one of two choices

1. Sack Stam after the Birmingham game (might even have beaten Forest to Karanka then)
2. Wait until the end of the season.

Replacing the manager now is just as much a gamble as keeping the old one. We also now have to dismantle our failed dutch football decision piece by piece instead of a wholesale approach in the closed season. Whats worse is that we have an example in our past of how poorly such a late management change can turn out, I dont even like Stam and think he should leave. But not now.

As for replacements, what now?
A player manager? We just dont have the same personalities as we did in the Quinn/Gooding era
Clement? Hes a Stam clone (Weve been here before btw, rumours spread on day one and the betting collapses regardless of if he can actually take the job)
Di Matteo - He thought he was too big for us last time, cant see why that would change.
Ironically, there are actually a few decent top half championship managers around, but I cant see how we can sell the club in its current position as having definite championship prospects for next year.

My answer is 'I dont know'.

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Re: Stam Gone

by Denver Royal » 21 Mar 2018 21:08

Dr_Hfuhruhurr Well this is a mess. Im definitely reserving any judgement until I see what actual masterstroke the club is going to pull here. I cant see how we can sell the club in its current position as having definite championship prospects for next Year.


Well, somehow they sold it to Stam after we finished 17th and 19th. :wink:

Amazing to me how many think our porospects suddenly don't look good, when the narrative all along has been how talented the players are, and the one thing holding them all back is now gone. :wink:
Last edited by Denver Royal on 21 Mar 2018 21:11, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Stam Gone

by muirinho » 21 Mar 2018 21:10

Zip
We have seen Gunter racing over to Stam when he scored against Burton.


To be fair, that tells us nothing. Gunter would have hugged his worst enemy after scoring a goal. After some criticism of his celebrations scoring last season against his old club Forest, he admitted he was so excited he didn't know where he was or what he was doing.

OldManAndrews All of those responses written by the players agents or whoever runs their social media accounts.


That is utter bullshit, and all it shows is you don't know what you're talking about. I'll accept that players may either keep quiet or try to be diplomatic in tweets after a manager is gone, regardless of what they think about him, but the Reading players' tweets and Instagrams are very obviously not written by agents/social media managers.

You even see the same grammatical/spelling errors for some of them that they put when they're signing things.

I notice, as an aside, we've seen nothing from Paul McShane. He said in an interview once that he had never trusted any manager he'd played under (although that was a number of years back now). I'd be interested to see what, if anything, he posts.


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Re: Stam Gone

by Zip » 21 Mar 2018 21:19

muirinho
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We have seen Gunter racing over to Stam when he scored against Burton.


To be fair, that tells us nothing. Gunter would have hugged his worst enemy after scoring a goal. After some criticism of his celebrations scoring last season against his old club Forest, he admitted he was so excited he didn't know where he was or what he was doing.

OldManAndrews All of those responses written by the players agents or whoever runs their social media accounts.


That is utter bullshit, and all it shows is you don't know what you're talking about. I'll accept that players may either keep quiet or try to be diplomatic in tweets after a manager is gone, regardless of what they think about him, but the Reading players' tweets and Instagrams are very obviously not written by agents/social media managers.

You even see the same grammatical/spelling errors for some of them that they put when they're signing things.

I notice, as an aside, we've seen nothing from Paul McShane. He said in an interview once that he had never trusted any manager he'd played under (although that was a number of years back now). I'd be interested to see what, if anything, he posts.



Yes I noticed McShane had yet to say anything.

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Re: Stam Gone

by Hound » 21 Mar 2018 21:22

Denver Royal
Dr_Hfuhruhurr Well this is a mess. Im definitely reserving any judgement until I see what actual masterstroke the club is going to pull here. I cant see how we can sell the club in its current position as having definite championship prospects for next Year.


Well, somehow they sold it to Stam after we finished 17th and 19th. :wink:

Amazing to me how many think our porospects suddenly don't look good, when the narrative all along has been how talented the players are, and the one thing holding them all back is now gone. :wink:


Denver think you are pushing your own agenda here. Very few have ever said the players weren’t culpable. Problem is the buck lies with the manager and something had to change

Clement isn’t massively experience either btw. Only 2 managerial positions, which were both short

I actually wonder whether Stam was too soft on the players more than anything. I’ve never heard anything to suggest the players weren’t very fond of him. Maybe he was too close to them even.

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Re: Stam Gone

by Zip » 21 Mar 2018 21:27

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Dr_Hfuhruhurr Well this is a mess. Im definitely reserving any judgement until I see what actual masterstroke the club is going to pull here. I cant see how we can sell the club in its current position as having definite championship prospects for next Year.


Well, somehow they sold it to Stam after we finished 17th and 19th. :wink:

Amazing to me how many think our porospects suddenly don't look good, when the narrative all along has been how talented the players are, and the one thing holding them all back is now gone. :wink:


Denver think you are pushing your own agenda here. Very few have ever said the players weren’t culpable. Problem is the buck lies with the manager and something had to change

Clement isn’t massively experience either btw. Only 2 managerial positions, which were both short

I actually wonder whether Stam was too soft on the players more than anything. I’ve never heard anything to suggest the players weren’t very fond of him. Maybe he was too close to them even.


Difficult to say but he rarely criticised them in public. Stam had to go but the players should be looking at themselves in all of this. Very few of them have played well throughout the season. Most have either been average, poor or dreadful. Perhaps giving so many of them long contracts has backfired. Playing in the comfort zone etc.

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Re: Stam Gone

by Hound » 21 Mar 2018 21:50

Wouldn’t disagree with that Zip

Players looked hungrier last year undoubtedly

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Re: Stam Gone

by Denver Royal » 21 Mar 2018 21:55

Hound
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Dr_Hfuhruhurr Well this is a mess. Im definitely reserving any judgement until I see what actual masterstroke the club is going to pull here. I cant see how we can sell the club in its current position as having definite championship prospects for next Year.


Well, somehow they sold it to Stam after we finished 17th and 19th. :wink:

Amazing to me how many think our porospects suddenly don't look good, when the narrative all along has been how talented the players are, and the one thing holding them all back is now gone. :wink:


Denver think you are pushing your own agenda here.

Nah, I'm pushing 'The players are very talented, Stam is the problem' agenda, which apparently you've never even heard uttered. (No, I'm not gonna go fetch all that, life is short). Or if you have, you didn't acknowledge it. Would have been a simple thing to do, no? Meaningless internet message board, and all, so no big deal, right? And yes, I'd say some have ridden the players (see my concession there?). Me being one of them, actually (except you rode me for that, too, as I recall?).

Anyway, I would'nt have expected you to concede a point. In your relatively short time in here you've been in the habit of twisting my words, and then had a giggle about it afterward. You've prolly never agreed with anything I've ever said.

Meanwhile, you've been slapping the backs of the biggest trolls this place has ever seen, and who are 'culpable for many departures (and thus, loss of revenue), and when they've said stuff that has already been said a hundred times already by others. (Ya seen some of the oldies come back in here the last day or so? A beautiful thing, huh? You can learn stuff, while at the same time some of the trolls get squeezed out (and get all insecure as their domain is threatened).

Too bad you weren't around back in the day, Hound. Tell ya what, first post tomorrow maybe I'll tell someone they are 'full of shite' (that's it, entire post) and then maybe you can then drool all over me. Adios. :wink:
Last edited by Denver Royal on 21 Mar 2018 22:19, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Stam Gone

by Hound » 21 Mar 2018 22:00

Erm you got the right person Denver? Can’t remember twisting your words or giggling about them. You are a decent considered poster, not one I necessarily agree with a lot of the time, but decent none the less

I’m certainly not slapping any trolls on the back either - happy to avoid any conversation with the likes of DD, AAA, Dave Royal, Brobot etc wherever possible

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Re: Stam Gone

by Hoop Blah » 21 Mar 2018 22:05

Zip
muirinho
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We have seen Gunter racing over to Stam when he scored against Burton.


To be fair, that tells us nothing. Gunter would have hugged his worst enemy after scoring a goal. After some criticism of his celebrations scoring last season against his old club Forest, he admitted he was so excited he didn't know where he was or what he was doing.

OldManAndrews All of those responses written by the players agents or whoever runs their social media accounts.


That is utter bullshit, and all it shows is you don't know what you're talking about. I'll accept that players may either keep quiet or try to be diplomatic in tweets after a manager is gone, regardless of what they think about him, but the Reading players' tweets and Instagrams are very obviously not written by agents/social media managers.

You even see the same grammatical/spelling errors for some of them that they put when they're signing things.

I notice, as an aside, we've seen nothing from Paul McShane. He said in an interview once that he had never trusted any manager he'd played under (although that was a number of years back now). I'd be interested to see what, if anything, he posts.



Yes I noticed McShane had yet to say anything.


And right there, that's a reason why players will likely put some little message out there if they're on social media so that fans, managers and chairmen don't put 2 and 2 together to make 44.

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