The League of 4

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Zip
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Re: The League of 4

by Zip » 01 May 2019 21:53

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and if we win Sunday 7-9-7 = a 60 Point Season



Without Olly and Meite? I doubt it.

We've suffered few injuries in recent weeks.


You either missed a letter or missed a few games....


We must have a near fully fit squad then :shock:

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Re: The League of 4

by Snowflake Royal » 01 May 2019 23:48

leon
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Zip
Ian you were resigned to us going down and said we should just stick with Clement as no one was going to turn it around.

I did, but I certainly wouldn't have described us as dead and buried. And I didn't expect the level of loanees we got to come in either.

I believe I had us as going down by a small margin.


And it was going to be the best thing for us.

#rfcexit

No, could be positive.

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Re: The League of 4

by maffff » 02 May 2019 00:00

No it couldn't. Fool.

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Re: The League of 4

by Denver Royal » 02 May 2019 00:21

Zip When you look at Gomes record with us it looks poor with 6 W 9D 8L to date. Yet the vast majority of us would say he is doing a cracking job and turning things around. It’s all about context. He has energised a squad and fan base which was on the floor.

It’s easy to draw conclusions based on the bare facts but there is always a context to consider. In this case an incredibly modest set of results represents a significant improvement on what had come before.

Well said, good points. Context can be a casualty in online forums, intentional or otherwise. One could say his only remit this season was keeping us up, but he’s done more than that re. positivity. One or two others may have kept us up too, but with less vibe. Much work lies ahead, however.

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Re: The League of 4

by WestYorksRoyal » 02 May 2019 08:21

If you look at Gomes' opening games, we got 1 point from 3 games which distorts things. If you really want to see how good we are recently, I'd look from the start of February when we got our loanees in. I don't know the stats but I'd expect we're top half.


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Re: The League of 4

by URZZZZ » 02 May 2019 11:11

This data is from matchday 30 (the Villa game) which was the one just after the loanees all arrived

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/champio ... =30&max=45

Didn't quite make the top half but very close, and averaging 63 points a season. Considering it took the loanees time to settle, I think we've done a very good job

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Re: The League of 4

by Snowball » 02 May 2019 12:02

And over that time we managed just 3 points less than Derby!

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Re: The League of 4

by Snowflake Royal » 02 May 2019 12:13

Snowball And over that time we managed just 3 points less than Derby!

Never use Derby (or Cardiff or Leeds) as your benchmark for performance in the second half of a season. :lol:

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Re: The League of 4

by URZZZZ » 02 May 2019 13:11

Obviously the improvements are evident to see (5 points behind the zone to 6 points ahead) but if you compare goals scored/conceded between the two managers, it's actually a lot closer than you think

Gomes : average 1 goal a game
Clement : 1.3 goals a game

Gomes : Concede 1.37 goals a game
Clement : 1.6 goals a game conceded

Now obviously people are getting a bit tired of the Gomes vs Clement debate, and it makes sense, it has dragged on for four months now, but it's interesting how the same people that called Clement's football dire are now saying we're playing exciting football, even though we're averaging 0.3 goals less a game


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Re: The League of 4

by Stranded » 02 May 2019 13:43

URZZZZ Obviously the improvements are evident to see (5 points behind the zone to 6 points ahead) but if you compare goals scored/conceded between the two managers, it's actually a lot closer than you think

Gomes : average 1 goal a game
Clement : 1.3 goals a game

Gomes : Concede 1.37 goals a game
Clement : 1.6 goals a game conceded

Now obviously people are getting a bit tired of the Gomes vs Clement debate, and it makes sense, it has dragged on for four months now, but it's interesting how the same people that called Clement's football dire are now saying we're playing exciting football, even though we're averaging 0.3 goals less a game


I think the main difference is we look like we could score goals, even though we aren't necessarily converting chances, whereas under Clement any goal felt like a happy accident rather than by design.

Would be intresting to see if we are creating more/less chances than we were or better quality chances - should anyone be bored enough to trawl through that sort of thing.

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Re: The League of 4

by Hound » 02 May 2019 13:56

There were times under Clement when I thought we were quite good and entertaining. Looking back from the team sheets, I really liked the look of how we lined up vs Brentford away. We'd have an appalling half followed by a good one (or vice versa) pretty much every game. The late Stam days - now that was unwatchable.

I fully accept he wasn't a great manager, and Gomes has been a breath of fresh air. But PC wasn't all bad, and imo, it was the clusterfcuk with Moore at the start of the season and the injuries to Eza, Bod, Baldock and Meite that really did for him.
Last edited by Hound on 02 May 2019 13:58, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The League of 4

by Hound » 02 May 2019 13:57

Stranded Would be intresting to see if we are creating more/less chances than we were or better quality chances - should anyone be bored enough to trawl through that sort of thing.


Sounds like one for Brain Traysers

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Re: The League of 4

by URZZZZ » 02 May 2019 14:02

Hound There were times under Clement when I thought we were quite good and entertaining. Looking back from the team sheets, I really liked the look of how we lined up vs Brentford away. We'd have an appalling half followed by a good one (or vice versa) pretty much every game. The Stam days - now that was unwatchable.

I fully accept he wasn't a great manager, and Gomes has been a breath of fresh air. But PC wasn't all bad, and imo, it was the clusterfcuk with Moore at the start of the season and the injuries to Eza, Bod, Baldock and Meite that really did for him.


Corrected for you


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Re: The League of 4

by Hound » 02 May 2019 14:14

took me a while to spot the subtle change

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Re: The League of 4

by Readingfanman » 02 May 2019 14:18

Hound
Stranded Would be intresting to see if we are creating more/less chances than we were or better quality chances - should anyone be bored enough to trawl through that sort of thing.


Sounds like one for Brain Traysers

https://twitter.com/BiscuitAnalytic/sta ... 4925386752

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Re: The League of 4

by Zip » 02 May 2019 16:57

Hound There were times under Clement when I thought we were quite good and entertaining. Looking back from the team sheets, I really liked the look of how we lined up vs Brentford away. We'd have an appalling half followed by a good one (or vice versa) pretty much every game. The late Stam days - now that was unwatchable.

I fully accept he wasn't a great manager, and Gomes has been a breath of fresh air. But PC wasn't all bad, and imo, it was the clusterfcuk with Moore at the start of the season and the injuries to Eza, Bod, Baldock and Meite that really did for him.


The injuries didn’t help but the summer signings were really poor. Gourlay did him no favours too. I liked the guy and unlike Stam he didn’t cripple us financially.

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Re: The League of 4

by Snowflake Royal » 02 May 2019 17:50

Zip
Hound There were times under Clement when I thought we were quite good and entertaining. Looking back from the team sheets, I really liked the look of how we lined up vs Brentford away. We'd have an appalling half followed by a good one (or vice versa) pretty much every game. The late Stam days - now that was unwatchable.

I fully accept he wasn't a great manager, and Gomes has been a breath of fresh air. But PC wasn't all bad, and imo, it was the clusterfcuk with Moore at the start of the season and the injuries to Eza, Bod, Baldock and Meite that really did for him.


The injuries didn’t help but the summer signings were really poor. Gourlay did him no favours too. I liked the guy and unlike Stam he didn’t cripple us financially.

I still think they're only considered poor on the whole because of injuries.

Yes, Meyler was shit and O'Shea was always terrible.

But looking at them objectively:

Walker - to my mind a succession plan for Mannone and Annsi. Initially looked good, had a couple of bad games got injured and throne was up against an inform Anssi or Arsenal loaner. Hard to definitely write him off at this stage remember Clement wasn't playing pass it out really either.

Yiadom - great

O'Shea - pointless, but no one expected him to play much anyway, agree bad signing

Meyler - awful, but an attempt to fix a clear problem. Quickly dropped and replaced

Ezatolahi - looked great, got injured on international duty. I don't see how you can criticise making a signing because the player got injured.

Sims - some good some bad, what you'll often get from a young loanee.

Baldock - solid if unspectacular, tbh the level I'd have expected. Again, can't really criticise the signing because of injury.

McNulty - never likely to have an immediate impact stepping up. Always looked handy to me and has done very well on loan. Decent with limited opportunity.

IMO there's only one signing there where the signing itself really just wasn't up to its intended role in the squad and that was quickly fixed.


Jose's had a fabulous hit rate (in the end), but that's the exception to normal, and they're all loanees here to keep us up, not build to anything. So serve a slightly different purpose.

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Re: The League of 4

by Zip » 02 May 2019 18:26

Snowflake Royal
Zip
Hound There were times under Clement when I thought we were quite good and entertaining. Looking back from the team sheets, I really liked the look of how we lined up vs Brentford away. We'd have an appalling half followed by a good one (or vice versa) pretty much every game. The late Stam days - now that was unwatchable.

I fully accept he wasn't a great manager, and Gomes has been a breath of fresh air. But PC wasn't all bad, and imo, it was the clusterfcuk with Moore at the start of the season and the injuries to Eza, Bod, Baldock and Meite that really did for him.


The injuries didn’t help but the summer signings were really poor. Gourlay did him no favours too. I liked the guy and unlike Stam he didn’t cripple us financially.

I still think they're only considered poor on the whole because of injuries.

Yes, Meyler was shit and O'Shea was always terrible.

But looking at them objectively:

Walker - to my mind a succession plan for Mannone and Annsi. Initially looked good, had a couple of bad games got injured and throne was up against an inform Anssi or Arsenal loaner. Hard to definitely write him off at this stage remember Clement wasn't playing pass it out really either.

Yiadom - great

O'Shea - pointless, but no one expected him to play much anyway, agree bad signing

Meyler - awful, but an attempt to fix a clear problem. Quickly dropped and replaced

Ezatolahi - looked great, got injured on international duty. I don't see how you can criticise making a signing because the player got injured.

Sims - some good some bad, what you'll often get from a young loanee.

Baldock - solid if unspectacular, tbh the level I'd have expected. Again, can't really criticise the signing because of injury.

McNulty - never likely to have an immediate impact stepping up. Always looked handy to me and has done very well on loan. Decent with limited opportunity.

IMO there's only one signing there where the signing itself really just wasn't up to its intended role in the squad and that was quickly fixed.


Jose's had a fabulous hit rate (in the end), but that's the exception to normal, and they're all loanees here to keep us up, not build to anything. So serve a slightly different purpose.


Clement deserves credit for seeing something in Meite. His biggest errors were upfront. That’s where most of our outlay went on two small players in Baldock and McNulty. The latter had no chance playing as a lone striker.

He was also an unlucky manager especially with injuries but you have to create your own luck too. He didn’t seem to have a rapport with the players. Since Gomes arrived it’s been striking how much the players are much more upbeat with the supporters and with each other. It’s a much happier club. It may have happened under Clement too once Gourlay had gone but we will never know.

One other thing. I can’t ever recall a manager giving such painfully honest interviews as Clement. He clearly knew what the problems were but fell short of being able to rectify them.

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Re: The League of 4

by Snowflake Royal » 02 May 2019 18:29

Yeah that's fair.

Although on the two small, I expect he though he was covered with Bod and Meite as the big guys.

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Re: The League of 4

by Zip » 02 May 2019 18:42

Snowflake Royal Yeah that's fair.

Although on the two small, I expect he though he was covered with Bod and Meite as the big guys.



Yes he was but injuries did for Bod so he was very reliant on Meite who was then also injured.......

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