BFTG Rotherham

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Re: BFTG Rotherham

by RoyalBlue » 24 Feb 2019 11:36

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Nah. We let a Rotherham dominate us for 75% of the match. At home. Absolutely disgraceful performance with no character or spine.


They had 2 shots on target. 2 reasonable chances other than the goal at a push. How is that dominating?


First half they could have had 2 and all second half we barely touched the ball. When they scored was it a surprise? No.

Dominated.


And how many very good chances did we create in both halves?

The record says we had more:

Shots
Considerably more shots on target
More possession

The stats they beat us on were:

One more corner than us
Despite the appalling officials who missed so many pull backs etc. from Rotherham, considerably more fouls conceded than us.

I'll buck the trend in saying there was sound logic behind Gomes' decision to bring on O'Shea. If he made a mistake it was not bringing on Harriott and or Barrow a fair bit earlier. He pretty much put his hands up to that when asked by Ady Williams after the game.

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Re: BFTG Rotherham

by URZZZZ » 24 Feb 2019 11:41

RoyalBlue
Westwood52 That was it, only a fluke will keep us up-not so much the result but the players attitude.Today was the day to put on a performance , but it just wasn't there. Rotherham were unbelievably poor & were there for the taking out wide; but there just wasn't any self belief or commitment. I for one am fed up turning up to see once again bang average. I cannot remember our last convincing performance, bar Brum in the League cup.


IMHO:


Martinez 6: Another howler of a pass out; whats wrong with the guy ? Couple of nice catches, but that was it.

Yiadom 6: Typical Andy performance. never once did he get wide with any conviction.

Tyler 6 : Solid enough. Lost his man a few times; but as with Yiadom never got forward with any conviction.

Miazga 7: Solid. Won his battles.

Moore 6 : Too often very shaky and needed to be more of an inspiration as Captain.

Baker 6: Neat and tidy, a couple of wonder passes. But lost the ball far too often, and missed a good chance 2nd half.

Swift 5 : One of those floppy performances, which he puts in far too often.

Ejaria 7: Mom. Great goal and our one player with belief and conviction.

Meite 2: Simply dreadful.

Oliveira 5: Just not his day-still not fit or sharp enough.

Macca 5: Created the goal; but that was about it. Rotherham were hopeless out wide-but never attacked them with any great conviction.


O Shea : Really. We were under the cosh when he came on & we needed to grab the inniative back by being bold. Their goal was always likely to come once we sat back.
Barrow: Should have played a better ball back for Oliveira late on.

Big time screw up all round from Gomez downwards. To be blunt after our performances this season we deserve to go down.

Ref: Another idiot. Missed all their CF s obstruction & his failure to pick up the obstruction on Oliveira 1st half when he was through, was just pathetic. I repeat why do we have to put up with rubbish, week in week out.


Maybe we should look at the negative attitude of some of our fans. Whilst the result was incredibly frustrating, some of the comments being made are ridiculous.

It is ludicrous to claim that the players lacked commitment today - they all put their bodies on the line and ran themselves into the ground. Their were some tremendous last ditch blocks by defenders.

There is f*ck all wrong with Martinez. He was a great signing and we would be in a far far worse position without him in goal. Yes he made one poor pass out that put his defender under pressure. However, contrast that to the numerous occasions each game that his predecessors did that. What he gives us is superb distribution. On a good number of occasions he set off really quick counter attacks which we should've made more of. That included a couple of great quick kicks from his hands which set wide players free deep in their half. He was also critical in the build up to our goal.

Moore not inspirational?!! :shock: He was the one who threw his body in front of shots the most.

And it's Gomes by the way.

sandman
URZZZZZZZZ The usual knee jerk nonsense in here I see.


It's not though is it? People are saying the same things they've said all season about games against the teams around us and our inability topit the game away.

These players continually fail to learn week after week and produce the same mistakes over and over.


The fact people keep saying the same stuff doesn't make them right. And it is very knee jerk after a disappointing result but not that bad a performance. At the risk of falling into the trap I've just criticised others for, we once again suffered because we failed to convert our chances. We are in this mess because Clement didn't fix two of the most key positions at the start of the season i.e. goalkeeper and striker.

As for the view expressed by one poster that our existing keepers were adequate and we should have foregone Martinez for a different player :shock: :shock: :shock:

Which of those 4 keepers is most likely to be playing at Championship level or above in the future? Three are destined for far lower levels which rightly affects their ability.


You're not understanding my point, Martinez is by far and away the best of the four. But our need for a goalkeeper was far less than our need for a "holding midfielder" in the mould of Eza

You tell me if we had Jaakkola in goal yesterday, the scoreline would have been any different. Now if we had a proper midfielder to bring off the bench to just sit and hold rather than O'Shea, we win that 1-0 IMO

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Re: BFTG Rotherham

by Eaststandman » 24 Feb 2019 12:49

sandman Whether that's true or not he was still brought in to do the same thing they were going to be brought in for.


The 3rd, 4th or 5th choice candidate is less likely to be successful though! The championship is generally considered to be the toughest in football, a team flirting with relegation for two years, required a different approach to "Stam Light" IMHO

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Re: BFTG Rotherham

by Platypuss » 24 Feb 2019 13:00

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First half they could have had 2 and all second half we barely touched the ball. When they scored was it a surprise? No.

Dominated.


Rubbish. A load of long throws does not equal domination.

O'Shea on for Meite was nuts, mind.


Think saying it’s nuts is a bit extreme. HNA has been suggesting O’Shea in that role all week and surely natural to bring on a defensive player with 20 mins left at 1-0.


Nope, that was the time to put on fresh pace and provide an out ball.
O'Shea in midfield was a nuts idea before the game, during it and still is now.

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Re: BFTG Rotherham

by Platypuss » 24 Feb 2019 13:04

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Dick Habbin's hairdo Yes, that was simply one of the best goals I have ever seen RFC score in 50 years. Won the ball out wide on half way, play it all around to feet including back to Martinez under pressure, pass it through the middle, out wide, beat the man, cut back, goal. Great stuff.



Goal we conceded. Three on one break. Simple pass out wide was all that was required. Lose the ball. We are carved wide open.......... Goal


Which game was this? That sounds nothing like the goal Rotherham scored.


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Re: BFTG Rotherham

by Zip » 24 Feb 2019 13:05

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Rubbish. A load of long throws does not equal domination.

O'Shea on for Meite was nuts, mind.


Think saying it’s nuts is a bit extreme. HNA has been suggesting O’Shea in that role all week and surely natural to bring on a defensive player with 20 mins left at 1-0.


Nope, that was the time to put on fresh pace and provide an out ball.
O'Shea in midfield was a nuts idea before the game, during it and still is now.



The point for me is that we spent the second half trying to defend a slender lead rather than score the second to kill off Rotherham. Their defence was appalling. Once we scored it was clear McClearly and Ejaria had the beating of them. Yet we made no attempt to push forward hoping instead to catch them on the occasional break.
Ultra defensive.

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Re: BFTG Rotherham

by Snowflake Royal » 24 Feb 2019 13:24

RoyalBlue
Westwood52 That was it, only a fluke will keep us up-not so much the result but the players attitude.Today was the day to put on a performance , but it just wasn't there. Rotherham were unbelievably poor & were there for the taking out wide; but there just wasn't any self belief or commitment. I for one am fed up turning up to see once again bang average. I cannot remember our last convincing performance, bar Brum in the League cup.


IMHO:


Martinez 6: Another howler of a pass out; whats wrong with the guy ? Couple of nice catches, but that was it.

Yiadom 6: Typical Andy performance. never once did he get wide with any conviction.

Tyler 6 : Solid enough. Lost his man a few times; but as with Yiadom never got forward with any conviction.

Miazga 7: Solid. Won his battles.

Moore 6 : Too often very shaky and needed to be more of an inspiration as Captain.

Baker 6: Neat and tidy, a couple of wonder passes. But lost the ball far too often, and missed a good chance 2nd half.

Swift 5 : One of those floppy performances, which he puts in far too often.

Ejaria 7: Mom. Great goal and our one player with belief and conviction.

Meite 2: Simply dreadful.

Oliveira 5: Just not his day-still not fit or sharp enough.

Macca 5: Created the goal; but that was about it. Rotherham were hopeless out wide-but never attacked them with any great conviction.


O Shea : Really. We were under the cosh when he came on & we needed to grab the inniative back by being bold. Their goal was always likely to come once we sat back.
Barrow: Should have played a better ball back for Oliveira late on.

Big time screw up all round from Gomez downwards. To be blunt after our performances this season we deserve to go down.

Ref: Another idiot. Missed all their CF s obstruction & his failure to pick up the obstruction on Oliveira 1st half when he was through, was just pathetic. I repeat why do we have to put up with rubbish, week in week out.


Maybe we should look at the negative attitude of some of our fans. Whilst the result was incredibly frustrating, some of the comments being made are ridiculous.

It is ludicrous to claim that the players lacked commitment today - they all put their bodies on the line and ran themselves into the ground. Their were some tremendous last ditch blocks by defenders.

There is f*ck all wrong with Martinez. He was a great signing and we would be in a far far worse position without him in goal. Yes he made one poor pass out that put his defender under pressure. However, contrast that to the numerous occasions each game that his predecessors did that. What he gives us is superb distribution. On a good number of occasions he set off really quick counter attacks which we should've made more of. That included a couple of great quick kicks from his hands which set wide players free deep in their half. He was also critical in the build up to our goal.

Moore not inspirational?!! :shock: He was the one who threw his body in front of shots the most.

And it's Gomes by the way.

sandman
URZZZZZZZZ The usual knee jerk nonsense in here I see.


It's not though is it? People are saying the same things they've said all season about games against the teams around us and our inability topit the game away.

These players continually fail to learn week after week and produce the same mistakes over and over.


The fact people keep saying the same stuff doesn't make them right. And it is very knee jerk after a disappointing result but not that bad a performance. At the risk of falling into the trap I've just criticised others for, we once again suffered because we failed to convert our chances. We are in this mess because Clement didn't fix two of the most key positions at the start of the season i.e. goalkeeper and striker.

As for the view expressed by one poster that our existing keepers were adequate and we should have foregone Martinez for a different player :shock: :shock: :shock:

Which of those 4 keepers is most likely to be playing at Championship level or above in the future? Three are destined for far lower levels which rightly affects their ability.

Under Clement Meite, Bodvarsson and Baldock were all scoring. Criticising him for not sorting out our striking is just stupid. Likewise Gomes when he brought in Oliveira who also doesnt have a bad scoring record.

Meite showed he needs a run of games to get going. Gomes' crazy rotation policy is almost tailor made to ensure he never gets going. And the tippy tappy stuff doesnt suit him either.

It cant be a knee jerk if people are consistently saying the same thing. It might be wrong but thats a different matter entirely.

As for keepers, Jaakkola was fine until we went back to putting him under tippy tappy pressure again.

As for negative attitude of our fans, you can do one Mr I hate Madejski you massive hypocrite.

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Re: BFTG Rotherham

by Maneki Neko » 24 Feb 2019 14:36

Enjoyed the game.
Enjoyed the football we played, exemplified by the goal, all the way back to our box, dragging them with us then cut through them with quick slick passing for the finish.

Goal was a gut punch but entirely predictable as we tightened up in the last half hour as the pressure told.

Could see what gomes was trying to do with oshea as we were starting to really struggle in the middle. Didnt do the trick though.

Still could/should have won with any of the gr8 chances we had in the last 10, and a little more of that urgency before Rotherham scored might just have made the difference.

Shame. Oh well.


Weather was lovely, atmosphere/crowd decent, met a few m8s at the ground which was nice, my 3 pints of cold fizzy amstel went down a treat, my m8s pie looked Gr8, and the burgers outside the ground have really improved.
So it's not all bad.

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Re: BFTG Rotherham

by Denver Royal » 24 Feb 2019 14:39

Wendy, good post. Fine margins, should have won with chances we created. I don't question the effort yesterday. Quite a few had decent games; The back 4, Eja, Baker, Swift, etc. Unfortunately for us, Nelson had a mare (for him), Meite not at the races, and Bod where he often is in our time of need, injured.
.
sandman Even with selling players we have brought in loan players from three of the top teams in the country, not to mention a Portuguese international striker we've been trying to get for two years, you better believe we are going all out to stay up. Even if it's just at board level.

sandman, I'm pretty sure the club/board are trying to stay up, yes. And that comes as no surprise to me. Why wouldn't they be trying to do that? Would they be on the board if they weren't? What else would you want them to be doing? But, without having bought anyone, and in fact sold instead, I'm not sure they are trying to do it 'at any cost', as you said. Put another way, what would you say if they had spunked 20mil on transfer fees in Jan and sold nobody?


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Re: BFTG Rotherham

by Lower West » 24 Feb 2019 16:24

Denver Royal Put another way, what would you say if they had spunked 20mil on transfer fees in Jan and sold nobody?


What's the total net outlay been in both the summer and winter transfer windows. Hindsight suggests that 10m for Moore may well have given Clement to strengthen the squad. Rather than rely on free transfers and cheap speculative buys. Selling Bacuna (with no like for like replacement) may well prove to be the deciding factor in our season.

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Re: BFTG Rotherham

by Jagermesiter1871 » 24 Feb 2019 16:30

URZZZZ
RoyalBlue
Westwood52 That was it, only a fluke will keep us up-not so much the result but the players attitude.Today was the day to put on a performance , but it just wasn't there. Rotherham were unbelievably poor & were there for the taking out wide; but there just wasn't any self belief or commitment. I for one am fed up turning up to see once again bang average. I cannot remember our last convincing performance, bar Brum in the League cup.


IMHO:


Martinez 6: Another howler of a pass out; whats wrong with the guy ? Couple of nice catches, but that was it.

Yiadom 6: Typical Andy performance. never once did he get wide with any conviction.

Tyler 6 : Solid enough. Lost his man a few times; but as with Yiadom never got forward with any conviction.

Miazga 7: Solid. Won his battles.

Moore 6 : Too often very shaky and needed to be more of an inspiration as Captain.

Baker 6: Neat and tidy, a couple of wonder passes. But lost the ball far too often, and missed a good chance 2nd half.

Swift 5 : One of those floppy performances, which he puts in far too often.

Ejaria 7: Mom. Great goal and our one player with belief and conviction.

Meite 2: Simply dreadful.

Oliveira 5: Just not his day-still not fit or sharp enough.

Macca 5: Created the goal; but that was about it. Rotherham were hopeless out wide-but never attacked them with any great conviction.


O Shea : Really. We were under the cosh when he came on & we needed to grab the inniative back by being bold. Their goal was always likely to come once we sat back.
Barrow: Should have played a better ball back for Oliveira late on.

Big time screw up all round from Gomez downwards. To be blunt after our performances this season we deserve to go down.

Ref: Another idiot. Missed all their CF s obstruction & his failure to pick up the obstruction on Oliveira 1st half when he was through, was just pathetic. I repeat why do we have to put up with rubbish, week in week out.


Maybe we should look at the negative attitude of some of our fans. Whilst the result was incredibly frustrating, some of the comments being made are ridiculous.

It is ludicrous to claim that the players lacked commitment today - they all put their bodies on the line and ran themselves into the ground. Their were some tremendous last ditch blocks by defenders.

There is f*ck all wrong with Martinez. He was a great signing and we would be in a far far worse position without him in goal. Yes he made one poor pass out that put his defender under pressure. However, contrast that to the numerous occasions each game that his predecessors did that. What he gives us is superb distribution. On a good number of occasions he set off really quick counter attacks which we should've made more of. That included a couple of great quick kicks from his hands which set wide players free deep in their half. He was also critical in the build up to our goal.

Moore not inspirational?!! :shock: He was the one who threw his body in front of shots the most.

And it's Gomes by the way.

sandman
It's not though is it? People are saying the same things they've said all season about games against the teams around us and our inability topit the game away.

These players continually fail to learn week after week and produce the same mistakes over and over.


The fact people keep saying the same stuff doesn't make them right. And it is very knee jerk after a disappointing result but not that bad a performance. At the risk of falling into the trap I've just criticised others for, we once again suffered because we failed to convert our chances. We are in this mess because Clement didn't fix two of the most key positions at the start of the season i.e. goalkeeper and striker.

As for the view expressed by one poster that our existing keepers were adequate and we should have foregone Martinez for a different player :shock: :shock: :shock:

Which of those 4 keepers is most likely to be playing at Championship level or above in the future? Three are destined for far lower levels which rightly affects their ability.


You're not understanding my point, Martinez is by far and away the best of the four. But our need for a goalkeeper was far less than our need for a "holding midfielder" in the mould of Eza

You tell me if we had Jaakkola in goal yesterday, the scoreline would have been any different. Now if we had a proper midfielder to bring off the bench to just sit and hold rather than O'Shea, we win that 1-0 IMO


Are the two mutually exclusive?

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Re: BFTG Rotherham

by URZZZZ » 24 Feb 2019 16:35

Nope, but obviously you can only field 5 loans at once. When Gomes came in, he should have got rid of Ezatolahi, and got in

1x winger
1x holding midfielder
1x attacking midfielder
1x centre back
1x striker

They were all needed more than a goalkeeper. Instead, he's gone for two "attacking midfielders", one goalie, one striker and a CB, which has left us massively depleted/underperforming on the wings and in the holding midfield position. So whilst Martinez is doing well and was a good signing, I think you have to question the real need when other areas were doing a lot worse

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Re: BFTG Rotherham

by Lower West » 24 Feb 2019 16:42

Where did it all go wrong for Baker?

On 29 July 2014, Chelsea manager José Mourinho said that he should be blamed if Baker would not become a senior England international under his management.


Another Swift.........


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Re: BFTG Rotherham

by Denver Royal » 24 Feb 2019 16:53

URZZZZ Nope, but obviously you can only field 5 loans at once. When Gomes came in, he should have got rid of Ezatolahi, and got in
1x winger
1x holding midfielder
1x attacking midfielder
1x centre back
1x striker
They were all needed more than a goalkeeper. Instead, he's gone for two "attacking midfielders", one goalie, one striker and a CB, which has left us massively depleted/underperforming on the wings and in the holding midfield position. So whilst Martinez is doing well and was a good signing, I think you have to question the real need when other areas were doing a lot worse

Well first off, lost in all this is that we wouldn’t have had a need at Def-Mid if Clement hadn’t fecked up with the signing of Meyler, giving him a 3-year deal, and who’s now out on loan on the subs bench at Coventry (and yes, I know ‘it looked good on paper’ at the time, although I did wonder why Hull/ Adkins had let him walk away for nothing).

Anyway, how do we know we didn't pursue a holding/def mid in Jan? They may well have, but couldn't get it done.
(Btw, if they had, at the time there'd have been howls from the gallery that it would impede Rino's development).
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URZZZZ When Gomes came in, he should have got rid of Ezatolahi

If he'd done that, then reckon at the time there'd have been howls about that, too.

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Re: BFTG Rotherham

by URZZZZ » 25 Feb 2019 00:36

Denver Royal
URZZZZ Nope, but obviously you can only field 5 loans at once. When Gomes came in, he should have got rid of Ezatolahi, and got in
1x winger
1x holding midfielder
1x attacking midfielder
1x centre back
1x striker
They were all needed more than a goalkeeper. Instead, he's gone for two "attacking midfielders", one goalie, one striker and a CB, which has left us massively depleted/underperforming on the wings and in the holding midfield position. So whilst Martinez is doing well and was a good signing, I think you have to question the real need when other areas were doing a lot worse

Well first off, lost in all this is that we wouldn’t have had a need at Def-Mid if Clement hadn’t fecked up with the signing of Meyler, giving him a 3-year deal, and who’s now out on loan on the subs bench at Coventry (and yes, I know ‘it looked good on paper’ at the time, although I did wonder why Hull/ Adkins had let him walk away for nothing).

Anyway, how do we know we didn't pursue a holding/def mid in Jan? They may well have, but couldn't get it done.
(Btw, if they had, at the time there'd have been howls from the gallery that it would impede Rino's development).
.
URZZZZ When Gomes came in, he should have got rid of Ezatolahi

If he'd done that, then reckon at the time there'd have been howls about that, too.


Meyler is only on the bench because he got injured a couple of weeks ago and Cov picked up a couple of wins. Let's be honest, Luton are a better team than Rotherham and as soon as Meyler was brought on, he stopped the flow of the game for Luton. He certainly would have been adequate to bring on yesterday, I feel he gets a lot of bad press. In my opinion, and I understand a lot of people would disagree, loaning Meyler out was a shocking call from Gomes, considering Bacuna was gone earlier in the day

Not sure about Adkins/Meyler, I think he had a lot of injury problems last season and that it was better for everyone to move on. But can't really say, as I don't know what;s happened there

Rino isn't a holding midfielder in the way I think we needed. Literally someone to just sit in front of the back four, I see Rino as a box to box player, something Ezatolahi was doing when we picked up a couple of decent results earlier in the season

I meant as soon as Gomes knew Eza was unlikely to play for us again, he should have terminated his loan. Surely people wouldn't find an issue with that if he told the truth. Anyway, people would probably complain if we signed Messi so that doesn't really matter anyway

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Re: BFTG Rotherham

by tee peg » 25 Feb 2019 06:57

Until you sort out between the players ears results like this will keep happening.

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Re: BFTG Rotherham

by Tails » 25 Feb 2019 07:27

Lower West
Denver Royal Put another way, what would you say if they had spunked 20mil on transfer fees in Jan and sold nobody?


What's the total net outlay been in both the summer and winter transfer windows. Hindsight suggests that 10m for Moore may well have given Clement to strengthen the squad. Rather than rely on free transfers and cheap speculative buys. Selling Bacuna (with no like for like replacement) may well prove to be the deciding factor in our season.


Out of curiosity, what makes you think that with money, Clement would have successfully recruited and embedded players needed to improve where we needed it?

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Re: BFTG Rotherham

by Snowflake Royal » 25 Feb 2019 07:49

Tails
Lower West
Denver Royal Put another way, what would you say if they had spunked 20mil on transfer fees in Jan and sold nobody?


What's the total net outlay been in both the summer and winter transfer windows. Hindsight suggests that 10m for Moore may well have given Clement to strengthen the squad. Rather than rely on free transfers and cheap speculative buys. Selling Bacuna (with no like for like replacement) may well prove to be the deciding factor in our season.


Out of curiosity, what makes you think that with money, Clement would have successfully recruited and embedded players needed to improve where we needed it?

Because the manager doesnt make sigbings in a vacuum, there is a team involved in identifying and bringing them in. Plus, he had clearly shown he knew what we needed and had tried to address that.

The main issue with most of his signings was injuries. One of which wasnt even picked up with us.

Baldock was ok when fit, though did miss chances at the end, Yiadom has improved us, Ezatolahi looked very good.

Oliveira was hardly a Gomes signing since wed been after him way before. I doubt with his extensivw experience of English football that Gomes brought Ejaria, Martinez or Miazga to the club's attention.

Its not like Gomes has brought in obscure Portugal or Saudi based talent only he could have identified is it.

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Re: BFTG Rotherham

by Tails » 25 Feb 2019 08:38

So you are saying that neither manager has had much influence on the transfer market?

Which players have had the best impact since joining the club? Martinez? Oliveira? Miazga?

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Re: BFTG Rotherham

by Stranded » 25 Feb 2019 09:10

So disappointing result - in as much as leading with 11 mins to go at home, you wouzld hope to win - but does a draw against our nearest rivals for survivial really mean we are doomed as so many seem to think? Perspective says, that whilst disappointing we are actually a little better placed as we have kept Rotherham below us, opened a 2 game gap to Bolton and kept Ipswich the same distance back, with them to play next - and one more game is crossed off.

The rest of the season is going to be a trudge of matching or bettering results below us - performances don't matter - the final points tally doesn't even matter as long as we maintain a better GD and match those below us.

Next week's results will provide an interesting light on what happens next:

Ipswich V Reading
Rotherham V Blackburn
Swansea V Bolton

You would expect Bolton to lose but any results are feasible in the other two - my gut says draws in both and some imploding Reading fans.

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