BFT whatever the hell that was

User avatar
Snowflake Royal
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 8939
Joined: 20 Jun 2017 17:51

Re: BFT whatever the hell that was

by Snowflake Royal » 21 Sep 2019 20:32

In fairness to the CBs, the midfield is so static it wouldn't matter how well they can pass.

URZZZZ
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 1664
Joined: 20 Apr 2013 18:30

Re: BFT whatever the hell that was

by URZZZZ » 21 Sep 2019 20:32

Zip
URZZZZ
Zip
Barrett should certainly be in the squad and Rino must come in for Pele.


The problems are a lot deeper than just bringing Rino in for Pele. We did that last week and we lost to a very very average team in Boro

I miss the days of a simple 4-4-2. Give me Baldock and Bodvarsson upfront any day to what we’re doing now. We are so slow on the ball. I cannot for the life of me understand why we never seem to exploit space. Moore does it time and time again, he has twenty yards of space to run into and he just passes it sideways or to someone with a marker right behind them. It makes no sense

Why do our players take four touches before releasing the ball? It seems they have no spatial awareness

Again, why do a short goal kick for the ball just to go back to Rafael anyway who hoofs the ball forward. That makes no sense to me. If the short ball is on, then utilise it. Never try and force it

I’d try a diamond next week in midfield which is what we did when Meite came on today. Wasn’t great but better than the 5 at the back

That added time today was embarrassing. Blackburn were knocking it around with ease and it seemed we had no desire to get it back. Was shocking



Oh agreed and I have made the very same points on here tonight. We are painfully laboured. Our centre backs are simply not good enough on the ball to play the way Gomes wants us to. Then Swift eventually gets the ball but often checks back inside instead of releasing the ball early. We are far too easy to defend against.
The players should be embarrassed by their pitiful efforts during injury time.


Blackett is good on the ball and played some decent passes when he came on, but not sure I’d trust him in a 2 man pairing

It’s all about whether you choose a philosophy based off players or players based off a philosophy. I know exactly which one I prefer

User avatar
John Madejski's Wallet
Hob Nob Subscriber
Hob Nob Subscriber
Posts: 10919
Joined: 10 Apr 2005 00:22
Location: Anyone who lives within their means shows a serious lack of imagination

Re: BFT whatever the hell that was

by John Madejski's Wallet » 21 Sep 2019 20:34

I wouldn't be too quick to ditch the 5 at the back as that's also the formation we've looked best using...….But it doesn't work when Moore is on the right, Miazga has to be there.

And Joao can fukk right off. Meite or Boye in with Puscas for me

User avatar
Snowflake Royal
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 8939
Joined: 20 Jun 2017 17:51

Re: BFT whatever the hell that was

by Snowflake Royal » 21 Sep 2019 20:35

John Madejski's Wallet I wouldn't be too quick to ditch the 5 at the back as that's also the formation we've looked best using...….But it doesn't work when Moore is on the right, Miazga has to be there.

And Joao can fukk right off. Meite or Boye in with Puscas for me

Anyone but Boye.

Zip
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 5542
Joined: 30 Dec 2017 16:39

Re: BFT whatever the hell that was

by Zip » 21 Sep 2019 20:41

John Madejski's Wallet I wouldn't be too quick to ditch the 5 at the back as that's also the formation we've looked best using...….But it doesn't work when Moore is on the right, Miazga has to be there.

And Joao can fukk right off. Meite or Boye in with Puscas for me


We are badly missing Miazga. Joao has been a big disappointment to date. I would start with Puscas and Meite.


3points
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 1945
Joined: 27 Oct 2013 17:22

Re: BFT whatever the hell that was

by 3points » 21 Sep 2019 21:38

Zip
John Madejski's Wallet I wouldn't be too quick to ditch the 5 at the back as that's also the formation we've looked best using...….But it doesn't work when Moore is on the right, Miazga has to be there.

And Joao can fukk right off. Meite or Boye in with Puscas for me


We are badly missing Miazga. Joao has been a big disappointment to date. I would start with Puscas and Meite.
I wasn’t impressed with the Joao signing at the time and he’s done nothing so far to turn my original opinion.

We just seem to get outnumbered by every team we play. In reality we only had 5 players today who did any running. The two forwards We played today do not do enough closing down, putting too much pressure on the midfield three. Yiadom was out on his feet for the last 10 minutes and the reason we didn’t get the ball back in injury time was because the midfield and full backs were knackered and chased the ball aimlessly , rather than defend the space

URZZZZ
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 1664
Joined: 20 Apr 2013 18:30

Re: BFT whatever the hell that was

by URZZZZ » 21 Sep 2019 21:42

Apart from one run between the end of March and mid April, we seem to have a real difficulty in scoring goals in the first half. Only in one league game out of eight so far have we scored in the first half. It means we’re generally always chasing, rather than protecting

paddy20
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 1160
Joined: 18 Apr 2007 17:50
Location: Wokingham

Re: BFT whatever the hell that was

by paddy20 » 21 Sep 2019 21:46

I think Gomes is trying to play continental football in the championship and it isn't working. Mowbray said our players are technically gifted but if you take the ball off them it pays dividends.. I felt sorry for Yiadom as he is being asked to play a role he isn't suited.We can't play 3 creative players in midfield. We need an engine room and an enforcer. Despite Swift having an off day he still scored and hit the post. Gomes needs to get the balance right and that dosent always mean playing your best players.

karbota
Member
Posts: 35
Joined: 16 Mar 2019 16:36

Re: BFT whatever the hell that was

by karbota » 21 Sep 2019 21:50

Zip That was unacceptable. Watching the players during injury time barely making any attempt to close down was risible. Blackburn took a quick free kick near the end which put one of their players in a great position whilst our lot just stood still. We were supposed to be chasing the game.

Once again we started poorly. We have now conceded seven times in total already this season in the first 15 minutes of each half. We have not scored once in this period. The first goal was coming as our back three dicked around with the ball making stupid passes putting each other under pressure. It happened in the second half too and should have resulted in Blackburn scoring. Please enough of this short ball stuff. It’s high risk football for little reward and someone like Morrison is simply not good enough to cope with it.

Please can we also end the ridiculous hype of Puscas. His first touch was abysmal today. Joao was anonymous again.
We have no natural wingers so no real width. We take so long to move the ball forward and rarely get behind our opponents.

So three successive defeats with Wolves, Swansea and Fulham coming up. I fear for Gomes. He is still in credit and in my view needs three months from now to turn things around. I am not convinced he will get that time though especially if we lose the next three.


Please take note Snowflake, he was dreadful, and Joao goes over like Rafels.


User avatar
NewCorkSeth
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 6012
Joined: 05 Jul 2013 00:17
Location: Wherever Nameless may be.

Re: BFT whatever the hell that was

by NewCorkSeth » 21 Sep 2019 22:28

Snowflake Royal
NewCorkSeth
Snowflake Royal I'm not talking technically or statistically.

Oh. Then how was Ejaria less involved if not technically or statistically? metaphorically?


Seth, snowstat has stolen your log in.


Stats are useful. They are not something to rely on exclusively.

Oh I agree. Even said the same in the whoscored thread. But Ejaria was more involved "technically" speaking and was worse than Swift. Both were poor.

I am just pointing out how unscathed certain players come out in BFTGs because we like them. If Swift hadn't scored and hit the post he still would have created more chances than Ejaria yet Swift is the one getting vilified. Seems odd to me.

Zip
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 5542
Joined: 30 Dec 2017 16:39

Re: BFT whatever the hell that was

by Zip » 21 Sep 2019 22:30

Just to add the attendance was allegedly just under 17,000. I think not.

User avatar
Huckleberry Hound
Member
Posts: 127
Joined: 16 Oct 2011 18:04
Location: The Magic Roundabout

Re: BFT whatever the hell that was

by Huckleberry Hound » 21 Sep 2019 23:24

I thought Gallagher had an excellent game for them. Can only dream of our forwards putting in a shift like that.

Blackburn had our system sussed from the start. Huge gaps behind our wing backs for their forwards to run into, drawing our central defenders out to full back positions, where they looked very uncomfortable. By the time Jose fixed it, we were already two down.

Their second goal was a perfect example of this. Yiadom was up in the Blackburn half & Moore made a pathetic non-challenge on the right touchline leaving Gallagher time & space to pick out the cross. Even then we should have cleared it before Dack scored. Just awful.

I think the ref was on a one-man mission to make football a completely non-contact sport. At least he consistently penalised every little thing.

User avatar
royalp-we
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 1477
Joined: 30 Sep 2010 11:04

Re: BFT whatever the hell that was

by royalp-we » 22 Sep 2019 06:17

AthleticoSpizz We have absolutely nothing to gain by getting rid in the next three months.

The guy is deserving of a decent run...the team need to deliver to make it happen.


Sorry? Gomes doesn’t ‘deserve’ anything. His record is poor - He’s got about 6 weeks to save his job.

If we are around relegation in November I’ll be very surprised if he is still Reading manager.


SCIAG
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 4563
Joined: 17 Jun 2008 17:43
Location: Liburd for England

Re: BFT whatever the hell that was

by SCIAG » 22 Sep 2019 08:28

Armadillo Roadkill
Individually, no one was good, but collectively, they were shocking.

I think this sums it up.

Aside from the period between Blackburn's second goal and our goal, we were completely and utterly tactically outplayed by Blackburn.

We very rarely managed to get our attacking players on the ball in decent positions. Playing it short didn't work. Going long was even worse. They allowed our centre backs time on the ball and played just one forward, allowing them to overrun us everywhere else on the pitch (which is why the back 3 went out of fashion in the first place!). The system was clearly not working and should have been abandoned before half time.

We need to be set up to 1) get the best out of Puscas 2) get the best out of Swift and 3) not concede. Clearly this formation can do that, but only against naïve opposition.

I would have pulled off one of the centre backs (probably Moore) and gone 4-3-3 with Meite and Joao or Boye either side of Puscas. That would have given us extra width, pegged back their full backs, and helped threaten us getting in behind their slow defence. There would have been more space for Swift and Ejaria, and the back four would have given us more options for passing out.

URZZZZ
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 1664
Joined: 20 Apr 2013 18:30

Re: BFT whatever the hell that was

by URZZZZ » 22 Sep 2019 09:16

SCIAG
Armadillo Roadkill
Individually, no one was good, but collectively, they were shocking.


Playing it short didn't work. Going long was even worse.


We seem to win so little in the air up top. I don’t think Joao won a single header yesterday. Meite is OK in the air at best. Compared to Gallagher who won quite a few. The last time we had a striker who won a lot in the air was Yann and it helps so much because it gives you the option of going long knowing the majority of the time we’ll win the header (and Yann was intelligent enough to flick it to our players). It does create a conundrum. Go long and guarantee to lose the ball. Or go short, create unnecessary pressure on ourselves and lose the ball. We need to be smarter

Hound
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 11213
Joined: 27 Sep 2016 22:16
Location: Simpleton

Re: BFT whatever the hell that was

by Hound » 22 Sep 2019 09:31

Agree with both the above. Gallagher won about as much as you’d expect him to, whilst Joao somehow seemed to lose everything despite towering above his markers at times

And yes should have switched to 4-3-3 a lot earlier. I’d even have considered bringing on Rino for McIntyre at h/t or even before to get control of the midfield and push swift further up with a 4-4-2

From a philosophical point of view, have no issue with playing short from the keeper. But we did it so badly yesterday. I think it worked once all match when Obita got free down the left, and that was a bit lucky. Moore/Morrison and McIntyre do not have the ability to find the correct pass into midfield to beat the press. Miazga maybe. It needs a compete rethink or abandoning

Zip
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 5542
Joined: 30 Dec 2017 16:39

Re: BFT whatever the hell that was

by Zip » 22 Sep 2019 09:45

Hound Agree with both the above. Gallagher won about as much as you’d expect him to, whilst Joao somehow seemed to lose everything despite towering above his markers at times

And yes should have switched to 4-3-3 a lot earlier. I’d even have considered bringing on Rino for McIntyre at h/t or even before to get control of the midfield and push swift further up with a 4-4-2

From a philosophical point of view, have no issue with playing short from the keeper. But we did it so badly yesterday. I think it worked once all match when Obita got free down the left, and that was a bit lucky. Moore/Morrison and McIntyre do not have the ability to find the correct pass into midfield to beat the press. Miazga maybe. It needs a compete rethink or abandoning


We were saying at half time the back three needed to be ditched with Rino coming on for McIntyre. I want the passing out from the back to be ditched. High risk low reward especially with centre backs like Morrison who doesn’t have the ability to play that way. The struggles at the back in the very early stages of the game set the tone. We were on the back foot because of it and then they scored.

Bristol Paul
Member
Posts: 316
Joined: 03 Oct 2004 12:43
Location: Guess?

Re: BFT whatever the hell that was

by Bristol Paul » 22 Sep 2019 09:53

SCIAG
Armadillo Roadkill
Individually, no one was good, but collectively, they were shocking.

I think this sums it up.

Aside from the period between Blackburn's second goal and our goal, we were completely and utterly tactically outplayed by Blackburn.

We very rarely managed to get our attacking players on the ball in decent positions. Playing it short didn't work. Going long was even worse. They allowed our centre backs time on the ball and played just one forward, allowing them to overrun us everywhere else on the pitch (which is why the back 3 went out of fashion in the first place!). The system was clearly not working and should have been abandoned before half time.

We need to be set up to 1) get the best out of Puscas 2) get the best out of Swift and 3) not concede. Clearly this formation can do that, but only against naïve opposition.



I would have pulled off one of the centre backs (probably Moore) and gone 4-3-3 with Meite and Joao or Boye either side of Puscas. That would have given us extra width, pegged back their full backs, and helped threaten us getting in behind their slow defence. There would have been more space for Swift and Ejaria, and the back four would have given us more options for passing out.


Agree with this. We also need to play much quicker, watch any half decent teams, they don’t arse around with the ball like we do, whether it’s Man City pinging it around, or someone like Burnley playing ‘functional’ football, they do it quickly, and crosses get delivered quickly before the opposing defence can organise themselves. Moore in particular is very slow in decision making, and doesn’t close down quickly either just backing off. I honestly think he needs dropping, he’s getting worse.

Also don’t understand Richards being dropped for Obita. Richards has been great this season, and while Obita is a good player he’s been out for ages and Richards performed well. Not sure Gomes is the tactical guru he seems to think he is. There aren’t a lot of tactics in the championship. Play fast, close down quickly, early crosses and don’t arse around with the ball at the back. Still think this team has enough quality to do well, but getting worried about Gomes capabilities.

SCIAG
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 4563
Joined: 17 Jun 2008 17:43
Location: Liburd for England

Re: BFT whatever the hell that was

by SCIAG » 22 Sep 2019 10:25

Hound Agree with both the above. Gallagher won about as much as you’d expect him to, whilst Joao somehow seemed to lose everything despite towering above his markers at times

And yes should have switched to 4-3-3 a lot earlier. I’d even have considered bringing on Rino for McIntyre at h/t or even before to get control of the midfield and push swift further up with a 4-4-2

From a philosophical point of view, have no issue with playing short from the keeper. But we did it so badly yesterday. I think it worked once all match when Obita got free down the left, and that was a bit lucky. Moore/Morrison and McIntyre do not have the ability to find the correct pass into midfield to beat the press. Miazga maybe. It needs a compete rethink or abandoning

Think McIntyre certainly has the ability but is perhaps a little naive. Yesterday he played one inadvisable pass to Swift who was under a lot of pressure, might have been fine doing that in the u23s but not the first team. But aside from that he was playing some really clever passes, sold a couple of dummies and actually got the ball out.

Can't believe I'm saying this but I think Miazga-McIntyre might be our best CB partnership. Need to see the second goal again though.

Victor Meldrew
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 6295
Joined: 12 Apr 2005 19:22
Location: South Coast

Re: BFT whatever the hell that was

by Victor Meldrew » 22 Sep 2019 10:43

Was starting to get optimistic after 4 years or so of pessimism and after 10 minutes yesterday I knew the optimism was unfounded and the Charlton game wasn't just a blip.
A few comments:-
Why was so much of the play down the right side in the first half where we were getting nowhere?
Why was our fitness level so poor that players (ours) were treading water in the last 15 minutes?
What has happened to Moore?
How long will Miazga be out for?
We can now see why Joao was forever in and out of the Wednesday team.

I suppose we thought that the way we played in the Cardiff game would be our style-quick interchange of passing as we progress upfield and then a decent final through ball to eager strikers.
Whatever happened to all of that against middle of the road Championship sides who have no star names but are big on organisation and with players fully understanding their roles?

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: MSN [Bot] and 50 guests

It is currently 22 Oct 2019 17:01