Bowen Out.

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Stranded
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Re: Bowen Out.

by Stranded » 27 Feb 2020 09:34

If Bowen goes, what next?

Surely it's time the focus is on the squad? We have been in this pattern for the last few seasons and a lot of the current squad have been part of the malaise.

Manager comes in, form picks up, we look half decent at times, move up the table a bit then the player appear to either revert to mean or down tools.

Pattern seen under Clement, Gomes and now Bowen as well. Could even argue it was there under Stam too but the up tick was just prolonged because some of the players tried "harder" due to being in awe of a playing legend.

Until we have a set of players who simply won't accept a performance like last night from themselves, then we will be stuck in this cycle. The lead has to come from the captain, and given Moore has been captain for most of these cycles then there should be an enchanced focus on his role in the squad.
Last edited by Stranded on 27 Feb 2020 09:38, edited 1 time in total.

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Old Man Andrews
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Re: Bowen Out.

by Old Man Andrews » 27 Feb 2020 09:35

Stranded If Bowen goes, what next?


Gareth Ainsworth.

Stranded
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Re: Bowen Out.

by Stranded » 27 Feb 2020 09:38

Old Man Andrews
Stranded If Bowen goes, what next?


Gareth Ainsworth.


Not sure I can see him dropping down a division next season. :wink:

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Re: Bowen Out.

by Royal Rebel » 27 Feb 2020 09:44

Let's be honest Bowen is totally out of his depth but I do kind of sympathise with him. He's a Div 1 Manager at best ?
I can't say I've been enamoured by the last 3 appointment as Reading Manager but ultimately they were all the "choice" of the Board.
If anyone is to blame for the decline it is surely they ?
If you want to be ambitious and successful appoint the right people and back it up with a certain amount of investment.
It happens in my place of employment. You don't employ the janitor to increase your sales revenue do you ?
Pay peanuts, get monkeys.
Simple.

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Zip
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Re: Bowen Out.

by Zip » 27 Feb 2020 09:51

Royal Rebel Let's be honest Bowen is totally out of his depth but I do kind of sympathise with him. He's a Div 1 Manager at best ?
I can't say I've been enamoured by the last 3 appointment as Reading Manager but ultimately they were all the "choice" of the Board.
If anyone is to blame for the decline it is surely they ?
If you want to be ambitious and successful appoint the right people and back it up with a certain amount of investment.
It happens in my place of employment. You don't employ the janitor to increase your sales revenue do you ?
Pay peanuts, get monkeys.
Simple.


So under Bowen we have won more than we have lost and he is a League 1 manager at best? At what point do Reading fans want to sack a manager? Every two or three months?
Little wonder we continue to struggle with zero continuity.


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Re: Bowen Out.

by royalp-we » 27 Feb 2020 09:54

We pay very good wages, certainly not peanuts.

Bowen was a sensible interim appointment having already known the players and the club. His contract extension should not have been activated until around this point though.

He seriously needs to find a system suited to playing at home - and the players need to start games with the right intensity at the Mad Stad, last night cannot be solely blamed on the manager.

Ho hum. Another big summer clear out on the horizon.

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Re: Bowen Out.

by Ascotexgunner » 27 Feb 2020 11:10

I think last night reminded me of the Fulham defeat where all of a sudden the manager not only looks lost and out of his depth, but you just wonder whether the players are "with" him. Did Bowen panic last night and run out of ideas or did he really not know what to do or try?
The subs and the tactics were just awful......I mean did anyone notice all 11 players were back defending a corner with no outlet and Wigan literally surrounded the Reading box because they didn't need to leave men back. Just utterly baffling.

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Re: Bowen Out.

by windermereROYAL » 27 Feb 2020 11:19

Ascotexgunner I think last night reminded me of the Fulham defeat where all of a sudden the manager not only looks lost and out of his depth, but you just wonder whether the players are "with" him. Did Bowen panic last night and run out of ideas or did he really not know what to do or try?
The subs and the tactics were just awful......I mean did anyone notice all 11 players were back defending a corner with no outlet and Wigan literally surrounded the Reading box because they didn't need to leave men back. Just utterly baffling.


Also nearly every single corner Wigan had their number 5 came unchallenged for a short corner. who trains this lot?

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Re: Bowen Out.

by Coppells Lost Coat » 27 Feb 2020 11:32

Very knee jerk reaction. If the tactics and performances dont improve then yes. But lets be honest this was the 1st very shit performance.
Hull was turgid and forgettable and uninspiring.
One small tactic really sent shock waves through the team. By dropping swift in deep, it could have been a master stroke if Wigan followed him there but they didn't, this made it look like we were playing with a man down as he was next to useless there last night - Although by doing not much he looked better than most. One simple change could have been made 15 mins in, no subs needed. Tuck in Araruna next to Pele. Drop Meite back out to the left push Swift up the pitch where he has been instrumental for us.

Lets hope he doesn't try to reinvent the wheel again


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Re: Bowen Out.

by leon » 27 Feb 2020 11:39

Being a number 2 is very different to being the boss. Hence the fact that not every assistant is successful. I mean Clarke and Clement! And you could argue Gomes.

Defending corners was a joke. Time and time again the ball came back at us.

I liked what Bowen was trying to do, but I’m getting a horrible feeling all he’s got is telling the lads to get stuck in more.

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Re: Bowen Out.

by URZZZZ » 27 Feb 2020 13:28

Stranded If Bowen goes, what next?

Surely it's time the focus is on the squad? We have been in this pattern for the last few seasons and a lot of the current squad have been part of the malaise.

Manager comes in, form picks up, we look half decent at times, move up the table a bit then the player appear to either revert to mean or down tools.

Pattern seen under Clement, Gomes and now Bowen as well. Could even argue it was there under Stam too but the up tick was just prolonged because some of the players tried "harder" due to being in awe of a playing legend.

Until we have a set of players who simply won't accept a performance like last night from themselves, then we will be stuck in this cycle. The lead has to come from the captain, and given Moore has been captain for most of these cycles then there should be an enchanced focus on his role in the squad.


We're crying out for a manager that plays a high tempo, high intensity level style on/off the ball. Can't remember the last manager we had that actually got us playing decent, attacking, high tempo football. Maybe one month under Adkins where we were scoring for fun

Every manager since then has either played it too cautiously or we pass it around with no purpose. Unfortunately, for Bowen, both of these factors are relevant to him

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Re: Bowen Out.

by Elm Park Kid » 27 Feb 2020 13:43

URZZZZ
Stranded If Bowen goes, what next?

Surely it's time the focus is on the squad? We have been in this pattern for the last few seasons and a lot of the current squad have been part of the malaise.

Manager comes in, form picks up, we look half decent at times, move up the table a bit then the player appear to either revert to mean or down tools.

Pattern seen under Clement, Gomes and now Bowen as well. Could even argue it was there under Stam too but the up tick was just prolonged because some of the players tried "harder" due to being in awe of a playing legend.

Until we have a set of players who simply won't accept a performance like last night from themselves, then we will be stuck in this cycle. The lead has to come from the captain, and given Moore has been captain for most of these cycles then there should be an enchanced focus on his role in the squad.


We're crying out for a manager that plays a high tempo, high intensity level style on/off the ball. Can't remember the last manager we had that actually got us playing decent, attacking, high tempo football. Maybe one month under Adkins where we were scoring for fun

Every manager since then has either played it too cautiously or we pass it around with no purpose. Unfortunately, for Bowen, both of these factors are relevant to him


But in order to play that sort of football, a team really needs to know each other and its tactics. You can't go bombing around the pitch, playing pass and move football, unless everyone knows each other's role. Players have to have confidence in each other and the system the manager has instilled in them.

I'm sorry, but there's no short-cut to creating that. A new manager can't just come in and magically get the team playing like they're Liverpool. Even when McDermott quickly turned things around after Rodgers, he was someone that the players knew very well and was taking over a squad that had been playing decent football only a year before.

I have no idea if Bowen has the ability to build that sort of team - that's the problem of consistently hiring unproven managers. But what I do know is that he's not going to achieve miracles overnight, and some times things get worse before they get better. The same sort of people on here that were talking about play-off places 3 weeks ago are now talking of relegation - both are pretty stupid ideas. Lets just stick with a manager and see where we are this time next year.

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Re: Bowen Out.

by Hound » 27 Feb 2020 14:03

Elm Park Kid
URZZZZ
Stranded If Bowen goes, what next?

Surely it's time the focus is on the squad? We have been in this pattern for the last few seasons and a lot of the current squad have been part of the malaise.

Manager comes in, form picks up, we look half decent at times, move up the table a bit then the player appear to either revert to mean or down tools.

Pattern seen under Clement, Gomes and now Bowen as well. Could even argue it was there under Stam too but the up tick was just prolonged because some of the players tried "harder" due to being in awe of a playing legend.

Until we have a set of players who simply won't accept a performance like last night from themselves, then we will be stuck in this cycle. The lead has to come from the captain, and given Moore has been captain for most of these cycles then there should be an enchanced focus on his role in the squad.


We're crying out for a manager that plays a high tempo, high intensity level style on/off the ball. Can't remember the last manager we had that actually got us playing decent, attacking, high tempo football. Maybe one month under Adkins where we were scoring for fun

Every manager since then has either played it too cautiously or we pass it around with no purpose. Unfortunately, for Bowen, both of these factors are relevant to him


But in order to play that sort of football, a team really needs to know each other and its tactics. You can't go bombing around the pitch, playing pass and move football, unless everyone knows each other's role. Players have to have confidence in each other and the system the manager has instilled in them.

I'm sorry, but there's no short-cut to creating that. A new manager can't just come in and magically get the team playing like they're Liverpool. Even when McDermott quickly turned things around after Rodgers, he was someone that the players knew very well and was taking over a squad that had been playing decent football only a year before.

I have no idea if Bowen has the ability to build that sort of team - that's the problem of consistently hiring unproven managers. But what I do know is that he's not going to achieve miracles overnight, and some times things get worse before they get better. The same sort of people on here that were talking about play-off places 3 weeks ago are now talking of relegation - both are pretty stupid ideas. Lets just stick with a manager and see where we are this time next year.


yep this very much

Bowen said the right things at the start, about creating the higher tempo, playing football in the oppo half and being in their faces. It happened for a while, and then dropped off again - maybe few a number of factors inc Bowen picking the wrong players at times.

We're probably 3 wins away from saying Bowen has done a half decent job this season. Admittedly the performance against Wigan was every bit as rancid as everyone has pointed out, but it wasn't particularly indicative of recent performances


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Re: Bowen Out.

by URZZZZ » 27 Feb 2020 14:11

Hound
Elm Park Kid
URZZZZ
We're crying out for a manager that plays a high tempo, high intensity level style on/off the ball. Can't remember the last manager we had that actually got us playing decent, attacking, high tempo football. Maybe one month under Adkins where we were scoring for fun

Every manager since then has either played it too cautiously or we pass it around with no purpose. Unfortunately, for Bowen, both of these factors are relevant to him


But in order to play that sort of football, a team really needs to know each other and its tactics. You can't go bombing around the pitch, playing pass and move football, unless everyone knows each other's role. Players have to have confidence in each other and the system the manager has instilled in them.

I'm sorry, but there's no short-cut to creating that. A new manager can't just come in and magically get the team playing like they're Liverpool. Even when McDermott quickly turned things around after Rodgers, he was someone that the players knew very well and was taking over a squad that had been playing decent football only a year before.

I have no idea if Bowen has the ability to build that sort of team - that's the problem of consistently hiring unproven managers. But what I do know is that he's not going to achieve miracles overnight, and some times things get worse before they get better. The same sort of people on here that were talking about play-off places 3 weeks ago are now talking of relegation - both are pretty stupid ideas. Lets just stick with a manager and see where we are this time next year.


yep this very much

Bowen said the right things at the start, about creating the higher tempo, playing football in the oppo half and being in their faces. It happened for a while, and then dropped off again - maybe few a number of factors inc Bowen picking the wrong players at times.

We're probably 3 wins away from saying Bowen has done a half decent job this season. Admittedly the performance against Wigan was every bit as rancid as everyone has pointed out, but it wasn't particularly indicative of recent performances


Not to the extremes of yesterday, but it's been coming

WBA, Hull, Cardiff, Bristol, Millwall were all really poor performances

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Re: Bowen Out.

by Hound » 27 Feb 2020 14:17

hmm - not sure on that. Cardiff we had a very dodgy line up out, Hull would have been a dull but efficient 1-0 win had we not conceded a lucky equaliser (that was their first shot on target in the 2nd half), WBA we had an awful 20 mins but were ok otherwise against a strong team. Bristol sounds pretty equal but conceded a poor goal. None were anything like last nights atrocity

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Re: Bowen Out.

by Royal Rebel » 27 Feb 2020 14:18

Zip
Royal Rebel Let's be honest Bowen is totally out of his depth but I do kind of sympathise with him. He's a Div 1 Manager at best ?
I can't say I've been enamoured by the last 3 appointment as Reading Manager but ultimately they were all the "choice" of the Board.
If anyone is to blame for the decline it is surely they ?
If you want to be ambitious and successful appoint the right people and back it up with a certain amount of investment.
It happens in my place of employment. You don't employ the janitor to increase your sales revenue do you ?
Pay peanuts, get monkeys.
Simple.


So under Bowen we have won more than we have lost and he is a League 1 manager at best? At what point do Reading fans want to sack a manager? Every two or three months?
Little wonder we continue to struggle with zero continuity.


I actually suggested that perhaps he shouldn't have been appointed in the first place................ He was the "cheap" option and had zero experience. Perhaps we should endeavour to appoint someone with a little more in the way of credentials if we wish to progress. If you'd cared to have read my mail properly you'd have realised that I'm not blaming Bowen completely for this.He just seems out of his depth in my opinion.The decisions that he made last night regarding line up and substitutions were to my mind very odd.

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Re: Bowen Out.

by Elm Park Kid » 27 Feb 2020 14:31

This is the way I see it:

You're sick so you go to the doctor. He gives you some medicine and tells you it takes 7 days to work.

Day one of taking it you feel better. Day two you feel worse. Day three you throw the tablets in the bin and ask the doctor for something else.

You then repeat that cycle forever, never really getting better but thinking it makes sense as you haven't died either.

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Re: Bowen Out.

by Zip » 27 Feb 2020 15:04

Royal Rebel
Zip
Royal Rebel Let's be honest Bowen is totally out of his depth but I do kind of sympathise with him. He's a Div 1 Manager at best ?
I can't say I've been enamoured by the last 3 appointment as Reading Manager but ultimately they were all the "choice" of the Board.
If anyone is to blame for the decline it is surely they ?
If you want to be ambitious and successful appoint the right people and back it up with a certain amount of investment.
It happens in my place of employment. You don't employ the janitor to increase your sales revenue do you ?
Pay peanuts, get monkeys.
Simple.


So under Bowen we have won more than we have lost and he is a League 1 manager at best? At what point do Reading fans want to sack a manager? Every two or three months?
Little wonder we continue to struggle with zero continuity.


I actually suggested that perhaps he shouldn't have been appointed in the first place................ He was the "cheap" option and had zero experience. Perhaps we should endeavour to appoint someone with a little more in the way of credentials if we wish to progress. If you'd cared to have read my mail properly you'd have realised that I'm not blaming Bowen completely for this.He just seems out of his depth in my opinion.The decisions that he made last night regarding line up and substitutions were to my mind very odd.


If he is out of his depth how come we have won 11 and lost 8 whilst he has been in charge? The calls for his sacking after one very poor performance are over the top
He is our fourth manager in 18 months. There is no guarantee the next manager will do any better. At some stage we have to give a manager time to build a squad

Agreed he made some very poor mistakes last night and needs to learn from them quickly.

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Re: Bowen Out.

by South Coast Royal » 27 Feb 2020 15:31

I think a lot of the dissatisfaction is to do with our home record (2nd worst in the division) and I am nowadays like most fans in that I generally now only go to home games (80 miles each way is enough).

With the emphasis on defence that is fine when we play away but we make so few chances at home and the games are mostly dull as our 2 strategies are (1)long ball to nobody in particular or
(2) hope that the opposition commits enough players forward that we can hit them on the break.

Unfortunately we (especially of late) have nobody big enough nor strong enough to make anything of the long balls and we don't have the pace (no McClearly, Barrow etc and thinking of Wigan, no Nicky Forster) to cash-in on breaks.

More thought needs to be given by the manager and his coaches as to how we can play especially at home and have a strategy that the players buy into-last night they just looked lost.

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Re: Bowen Out.

by Zip » 27 Feb 2020 16:51

South Coast Royal I think a lot of the dissatisfaction is to do with our home record (2nd worst in the division) and I am nowadays like most fans in that I generally now only go to home games (80 miles each way is enough).

With the emphasis on defence that is fine when we play away but we make so few chances at home and the games are mostly dull as our 2 strategies are (1)long ball to nobody in particular or
(2) hope that the opposition commits enough players forward that we can hit them on the break.

Unfortunately we (especially of late) have nobody big enough nor strong enough to make anything of the long balls and we don't have the pace (no McClearly, Barrow etc and thinking of Wigan, no Nicky Forster) to cash-in on breaks.

More thought needs to be given by the manager and his coaches as to how we can play especially at home and have a strategy that the players buy into-last night they just looked lost.



My trips to home matches are similar to yours at 75 miles each way and that’s enough for me!
Our home form is pitiful and Bowen has to find a way to get the team to start on the front foot. We also need to get the ball through to our strikers a lot quicker but without any wingers we are too reliant on Swift and Ejaria who are both guilty of taking too many touches. Either that or we rely on Yiadom and Richards neither of whom are decent crossers.

We have had an imbalanced squad for far too long and so many very poor transfer windows. We seem to have summer clear outs every year but what does it achieve?
There is no long term planning and no strategy in place.

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