BFT well I don’t know what to call it without resorting to a lot of naughty words

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genome
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Re: BFT well I don’t know what to call it without resorting to a lot of naughty words

by genome » 27 Feb 2020 09:59

Old Man Andrews
genome I'm hoping that last night will be something of a watershed moment, but I thought that about the 0-4 Ipswich defeat, and here we are

A big part of me worries that we're going to be stuck in this cycle until we eventually get relegated

Obviously financially it would destroy us so I am not suggesting I want relegation to happen but in a scenario where it wouldn't financially impact us I would take it. We really do need to hit the reset button and start all over again and relegation would do that.


Our owners have some cash, so provided we can shift big-earners (I'm sure there will be takers for Moore and Swift) and we cut cloth accordingly we might be okay.

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Re: BFT well I don’t know what to call it without resorting to a lot of naughty words

by Ascotexgunner » 27 Feb 2020 10:03

John Smith
Old Man Andrews Hoping people can see why I am so in favour of Liam Moore being sold this summer. He has come to the end of his time with us now. It is best for both parties he moves on.

I'm glad you've come to this viewpoint OMA. I have never believed in Moore. I have, in fact, always thought of him as a fraud: all the badge kissing, Tweeting Club1871 is all well and good when we're riding high but if ever there was a moment to be found out it was a cold night at home to Wigan. Give me Keiffer Moore over Liam Moore any day.


Keiffer Moore is exactly what we need and have been crying out for.
That guy was a pain in the arse all night long to our players on every level.
The other Moore (Liam) Im afraid really isn't performing. He isn't flexible enough either to fit into different formations for central defenders and then theres the recurring shoulder injury, that and the fact he has been putting off an op for a couple of seasons now.
This squad needs to offload an awful lot of players and sadly he is one of them.

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Re: BFT well I don’t know what to call it without resorting to a lot of naughty words

by leon » 27 Feb 2020 10:06

genome
Old Man Andrews
genome I'm hoping that last night will be something of a watershed moment, but I thought that about the 0-4 Ipswich defeat, and here we are

A big part of me worries that we're going to be stuck in this cycle until we eventually get relegated

Obviously financially it would destroy us so I am not suggesting I want relegation to happen but in a scenario where it wouldn't financially impact us I would take it. We really do need to hit the reset button and start all over again and relegation would do that.


Our owners have some cash, so provided we can shift big-earners (I'm sure there will be takers for Moore and Swift) and we cut cloth accordingly we might be okay.


Why can’t we just build a decent committed team that knows what it’s doing?

Personally I’d be sounding out, well in advance, new managers. So if we do need to fire Bowen we don’t end up like we always seem to drifting for a few games with a caretaker.

I know this is controversial but I’d like someone with a decent amount of managerial experience next time. We’re in a state and need experience.

So none of the likes of Clement, Clarke, Stam or Bowen.

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Re: BFT well I don’t know what to call it without resorting to a lot of naughty words

by Old Man Andrews » 27 Feb 2020 10:07

leon
genome
Old Man Andrews Obviously financially it would destroy us so I am not suggesting I want relegation to happen but in a scenario where it wouldn't financially impact us I would take it. We really do need to hit the reset button and start all over again and relegation would do that.


Our owners have some cash, so provided we can shift big-earners (I'm sure there will be takers for Moore and Swift) and we cut cloth accordingly we might be okay.


Why can’t we just build a decent committed team that knows what it’s doing?

Personally I’d be sounding out, well in advance, new managers. So if we do need to fire Bowen we don’t end up like we always seem to drifting for a few games with a caretaker.

I know this is controversial but I’d like someone with a decent amount of managerial experience next time. We’re in a state and need experience.

So none of the likes of Clement, Clarke, Stam or Bowen.

You know who we could do with, and you'll hate me even more for it..... Neil Warnock.

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Re: BFT well I don’t know what to call it without resorting to a lot of naughty words

by genome » 27 Feb 2020 10:07

............. Allardyce?


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Re: BFT well I don’t know what to call it without resorting to a lot of naughty words

by windermereROYAL » 27 Feb 2020 10:13

19 wins and 29 defeats in the last 63 home games, says it all really.

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Re: BFT well I don’t know what to call it without resorting to a lot of naughty words

by Coppells Lost Coat » 27 Feb 2020 10:13

Moore is a good CB, a very good CB on his day. But he has been acting like charlie big bollocks since his contract debacle a few seasons ago, then to be handed the captains armband is a bit off to me. He is desperate to play in the prem but when the chips were down last night he folded.

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Re: BFT well I don’t know what to call it without resorting to a lot of naughty words

by BraisingsteakRoyal » 27 Feb 2020 10:20

Coppells Lost Coat Put a player on the bench you have no intention of playing.


I for one am thankful that he put Timbe on the bench - if for no other reason than to quell the pre-game Kenyan Facebook tirade.

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Re: BFT well I don’t know what to call it without resorting to a lot of naughty words

by BraisingsteakRoyal » 27 Feb 2020 10:21

Old Man Andrews
leon
genome
Our owners have some cash, so provided we can shift big-earners (I'm sure there will be takers for Moore and Swift) and we cut cloth accordingly we might be okay.


Why can’t we just build a decent committed team that knows what it’s doing?

Personally I’d be sounding out, well in advance, new managers. So if we do need to fire Bowen we don’t end up like we always seem to drifting for a few games with a caretaker.

I know this is controversial but I’d like someone with a decent amount of managerial experience next time. We’re in a state and need experience.

So none of the likes of Clement, Clarke, Stam or Bowen.

You know who we could do with, and you'll hate me even more for it..... Neil Warnock.


He's retiring at the end of the season m9.


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Re: BFT well I don’t know what to call it without resorting to a lot of naughty words

by Rollerbob » 27 Feb 2020 10:22

Right, so I thought perhaps I'd calm down overnight, but the opposite happened. Last night was diabolical, and here's my observations.

Tactics: Where to start. Baldock was the only centre forward for 100% of the match last night. He's tiny, Wigan CB's are big. Wigan are sh*te, 3rd bottom and away from home. Why on earth are we playing 1 up front?!

More tactics: Swift. Why was he so deep. For the whole first half, instead of being the gap between midfield and attack, he dropped deep so that whoever it was on the ball HAD to go backwards. In the second half, he got DEEPER (was playing behind the CB's for much of the second half). WTAF.

Set pieces... why was everyone back to defend them? What use is Baldock in the box defending corners?? At 2-0 down, we were still ALL back. Of course, the ball was ballooned forwards time and time again, and we had our entire 11 in the box. Clueless.

Throw-ins: Did we manage to throw it in and keep it once?

Formation: (Going back to tactics again) - so, fair enough, if you get half-hour into a game and plan A isn't working, why not change formation? YOU CAN SEE IT'S DOG SH*T. Bowen changed personnel but laboured on with a god awful tactic and one up front. Can only think we don't have a plan B.

Moore: That third goal. Moore can f*ck off if that's his attitude. Joke of a captain.

... im just embarrassed to be a Reading fan right now.

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Re: BFT well I don’t know what to call it without resorting to a lot of naughty words

by Old Man Andrews » 27 Feb 2020 10:23

BraisingsteakRoyal
Old Man Andrews
leon
Why can’t we just build a decent committed team that knows what it’s doing?

Personally I’d be sounding out, well in advance, new managers. So if we do need to fire Bowen we don’t end up like we always seem to drifting for a few games with a caretaker.

I know this is controversial but I’d like someone with a decent amount of managerial experience next time. We’re in a state and need experience.

So none of the likes of Clement, Clarke, Stam or Bowen.

You know who we could do with, and you'll hate me even more for it..... Neil Warnock.


He's retiring at the end of the season m9.

He has been "retiring at the end of the season" for the past 10 seasons.........

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Re: BFT well I don’t know what to call it without resorting to a lot of naughty words

by Ascotexgunner » 27 Feb 2020 10:24

windermereROYAL 19 wins and 29 defeats in the last 63 home games, says it all really.


Jesus Christ reading that really hits home.....I knew it was bad....but not THAT bad.

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Re: BFT well I don’t know what to call it without resorting to a lot of naughty words

by Old Man Andrews » 27 Feb 2020 10:25

genome ............. Allardyce?

Could never afford him. Warnock is a budget Allardyce with a proven record of bringing stability and grit to his teams. Obviously the bloke is a massive helmlord but he gets results.


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Re: BFT well I don’t know what to call it without resorting to a lot of naughty words

by Hound » 27 Feb 2020 10:26

Rollerbob Right, so I thought perhaps I'd calm down overnight, but the opposite happened. Last night was diabolical, and here's my observations.

Tactics: Where to start. Baldock was the only centre forward for 100% of the match last night. He's tiny, Wigan CB's are big. Wigan are sh*te, 3rd bottom and away from home. Why on earth are we playing 1 up front?!

More tactics: Swift. Why was he so deep. For the whole first half, instead of being the gap between midfield and attack, he dropped deep so that whoever it was on the ball HAD to go backwards. In the second half, he got DEEPER (was playing behind the CB's for much of the second half). WTAF.
.


shows how dreadful Meite was that you thought we were 1 up front :) It was 4-4-2 until HT

Swift played as Dcm when Pele went off. He has done it before reasonably well. I'd spare him from some of the criticism, he genuinely seems to care and gave his all, but he is struggling with Ejaria on such poor form. Number of times he gave the ball to Ejaria who then just gave it him straight back rather than take responsibility to create. In saying that he was far from good himself

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Re: BFT well I don’t know what to call it without resorting to a lot of naughty words

by Stranded » 27 Feb 2020 10:29

genome
Old Man Andrews
genome I'm hoping that last night will be something of a watershed moment, but I thought that about the 0-4 Ipswich defeat, and here we are

A big part of me worries that we're going to be stuck in this cycle until we eventually get relegated

Obviously financially it would destroy us so I am not suggesting I want relegation to happen but in a scenario where it wouldn't financially impact us I would take it. We really do need to hit the reset button and start all over again and relegation would do that.


Our owners have some cash, so provided we can shift big-earners (I'm sure there will be takers for Moore and Swift) and we cut cloth accordingly we might be okay.


Problem is, Ipswich thought the same and are slipping away, Sunderland may still be there next year too. If we do end up going down (I still don't think we will) we as fans need to accept it might be a 2 or 3 year rebuild to get back.

The 2017/18 massive loss is still an albatross around our necks that realistically stops us doing what we need to do to get the squad properly refreshed - thankfully we are in the lst cycle of that (2017/18, 18/19 and current season is this years calculation), so assuming we do meet FFP and we must be confident we will there will be a minimum 20m additional budget available if the owners are happy to meet that loss - so who knows what this summer will bring if/once we get the points to stay up.

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Re: BFT well I don’t know what to call it without resorting to a lot of naughty words

by URZZZZ » 27 Feb 2020 10:29

Rollerbob Right, so I thought perhaps I'd calm down overnight, but the opposite happened. Last night was diabolical, and here's my observations.

Tactics: Where to start. Baldock was the only centre forward for 100% of the match last night. He's tiny, Wigan CB's are big. Wigan are sh*te, 3rd bottom and away from home. Why on earth are we playing 1 up front?!

More tactics: Swift. Why was he so deep. For the whole first half, instead of being the gap between midfield and attack, he dropped deep so that whoever it was on the ball HAD to go backwards. In the second half, he got DEEPER (was playing behind the CB's for much of the second half). WTAF.

Set pieces... why was everyone back to defend them? What use is Baldock in the box defending corners?? At 2-0 down, we were still ALL back. Of course, the ball was ballooned forwards time and time again, and we had our entire 11 in the box. Clueless.

Throw-ins: Did we manage to throw it in and keep it once?

Formation: (Going back to tactics again) - so, fair enough, if you get half-hour into a game and plan A isn't working, why not change formation? YOU CAN SEE IT'S DOG SH*T. Bowen changed personnel but laboured on with a god awful tactic and one up front. Can only think we don't have a plan B.

Moore: That third goal. Moore can f*ck off if that's his attitude. Joke of a captain.

... im just embarrassed to be a Reading fan right now.


A few things wrong here

We started 4-4-2
We changed to a 4-2-3-1 second half
And swift played as a deeper midfielder because he had played that role well at Wednesday and at Cardiff in the cup

Completely agree about having 11 back from corners though, another sign of his negativity

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Re: BFT well I don’t know what to call it without resorting to a lot of naughty words

by WestYorksRoyal » 27 Feb 2020 10:33

leon
genome
Old Man Andrews Obviously financially it would destroy us so I am not suggesting I want relegation to happen but in a scenario where it wouldn't financially impact us I would take it. We really do need to hit the reset button and start all over again and relegation would do that.


Our owners have some cash, so provided we can shift big-earners (I'm sure there will be takers for Moore and Swift) and we cut cloth accordingly we might be okay.


Why can’t we just build a decent committed team that knows what it’s doing?

Personally I’d be sounding out, well in advance, new managers. So if we do need to fire Bowen we don’t end up like we always seem to drifting for a few games with a caretaker.

I know this is controversial but I’d like someone with a decent amount of managerial experience next time. We’re in a state and need experience.

So none of the likes of Clement, Clarke, Stam or Bowen.

Problem is, will we really appeal to good, experienced managers? The reason we have Bowen is because nobody of the required calibre was interested in October.

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Re: BFT well I don’t know what to call it without resorting to a lot of naughty words

by Hound » 27 Feb 2020 10:33

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genome
Old Man Andrews Obviously financially it would destroy us so I am not suggesting I want relegation to happen but in a scenario where it wouldn't financially impact us I would take it. We really do need to hit the reset button and start all over again and relegation would do that.


Our owners have some cash, so provided we can shift big-earners (I'm sure there will be takers for Moore and Swift) and we cut cloth accordingly we might be okay.


Problem is, Ipswich thought the same and are slipping away, Sunderland may still be there next year too. If we do end up going down (I still don't think we will) we as fans need to accept it might be a 2 or 3 year rebuild to get back.

The 2017/18 massive loss is still an albatross around our necks that realistically stops us doing what we need to do to get the squad properly refreshed - thankfully we are in the lst cycle of that (2017/18, 18/19 and current season is this years calculation), so assuming we do meet FFP and we must be confident we will there will be a minimum 20m additional budget available if the owners are happy to meet that loss - so who knows what this summer will bring if/once we get the points to stay up.


No good would come out of relegation - been through that before

We need to stay up this year - get rid of the last of the big earners we don't want - wouldnt be upset to sell off Moore (though ideally keep Swift) and start again with the base that we have

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Re: BFT well I don’t know what to call it without resorting to a lot of naughty words

by Franconian Royal » 27 Feb 2020 10:33

Hound
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Well he doesn’t strike me as a Bowen type of player so my thoughts are that new Brazilian agent bloke signed him & there’s a clause in his contract saying he needs to play a certain amount of games


If that is the case, then it is worrying. Reminds me a bit of the Russian era


its not the case. He is a cheap punt who might come good. He has good technique, but clearly not ready for a cold night in the champ


He did look tidy last night with some of his touches. His flick over a defender’s head on the halfway line was nice, but as you say he isn’t ready for the championship, yet.

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Re: BFT well I don’t know what to call it without resorting to a lot of naughty words

by Rollerbob » 27 Feb 2020 10:33

Hound
Rollerbob Right, so I thought perhaps I'd calm down overnight, but the opposite happened. Last night was diabolical, and here's my observations.

Tactics: Where to start. Baldock was the only centre forward for 100% of the match last night. He's tiny, Wigan CB's are big. Wigan are sh*te, 3rd bottom and away from home. Why on earth are we playing 1 up front?!

More tactics: Swift. Why was he so deep. For the whole first half, instead of being the gap between midfield and attack, he dropped deep so that whoever it was on the ball HAD to go backwards. In the second half, he got DEEPER (was playing behind the CB's for much of the second half). WTAF.
.


shows how dreadful Meite was that you thought we were 1 up front :) It was 4-4-2 until HT

Swift played as Dcm when Pele went off. He has done it before reasonably well. I'd spare him from some of the criticism, he genuinely seems to care and gave his all, but he is struggling with Ejaria on such poor form. Number of times he gave the ball to Ejaria who then just gave it him straight back rather than take responsibility to create. In saying that he was far from good himself


Ah, to me it looked like an attempt at playing the 4-3-3 / 4-5-1 style with Meite and Ejaria either side of Baldock. Either way, game was crying out for a switch up. Did it come? Did it heck.

Meite was totally anonymous all game. The only thing I remember him doing was giving away a stupid foul half way through the second half.

My criticism is less with swift, more the tactical decision about where he was playing. Number of times that Richards or Ejaria had the ball down the left and just needed an overlapping run on the inside, but only to find that Swift had dropped right back instead of filling the gap between Att and Mid.

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