BFTG Barnsley

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Re: BFTG Barnsley

by P!ssed Off » 01 Mar 2020 11:30

Snowflake Royal Whoscored stats based Meite vs Puscas.

Both scored
Puscas assist +
Puscas yellow card -
Puscas better pass completion
Meite more shots on target
Puscas more key passes
Meite way more aerials won
Meite was subbed so his quality was packed into fewer minutes.
Meite 3 dribbles, Puscas 0
Puscas disposed twice as much
Puscas 3 times more unsuccessful touches
Meite 3 tackles, Puscas 0


Etc etc


So in what sense does the rating system not work very well?
It's quite rare for a goal to be complete fluke so not worth amending the scoring.

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Re: BFTG Barnsley

by Snowflake Royal » 01 Mar 2020 11:47

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Snowflake Royal Whoscored stats based Meite vs Puscas.

Both scored
Puscas assist +
Puscas yellow card -
Puscas better pass completion
Meite more shots on target
Puscas more key passes
Meite way more aerials won
Meite was subbed so his quality was packed into fewer minutes.
Meite 3 dribbles, Puscas 0
Puscas disposed twice as much
Puscas 3 times more unsuccessful touches
Meite 3 tackles, Puscas 0


Etc etc


So in what sense does the rating system not work very well?
It's quite rare for a goal to be complete fluke so not worth amending the scoring.

Because some of the measures it relies upon have an extremely wide range of how much they're actually of benefit.

Key passes and assists for instance.

It also fails to measure anything less easily quantifiable, like cover, positioning, marking, tracking, off the ball movement etc.

The stats themselves are good, especially individually, providing one remembers some are more limited than others, and that they are not the be all and end all.

When added together to provide a rating it all falls down a bit, hence most people watching the game not having Meite or Obita as our best two performers, whilst whoscored does.

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Re: BFTG Barnsley

by URZZZZ » 01 Mar 2020 11:54

SCIAG
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Harte was a solid reliable Championship defender, if not a little slow

Obita used to be pretty reliable

Struggling past that

Bertrand

Armstrong.

Utterly bizarre comment really, we've nearly always been well-stocked at left back except for about two matches where we had to play Marcus Williams. Armstrong, Bertrand, and Obita have all been in the top three of a POTS vote and Ian Harte was in the Championship team of the season. We have three reliable left backs at the moment for goodness' sake.


More weighting emphasised on most recent events

Struggled for consistency in that LB position from 2016 to 2019 really. Blackett one week, Gunter the next, then Obita, then Richards etc. Good teams will generally have a “preferred” back four, we haven’t found that for a while

Obviously before 2016 the spot was always reliable, completely forgot about Bertrand and Armstrong but both v good fullbacks

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Re: BFTG Barnsley

by P!ssed Off » 01 Mar 2020 12:08

Snowflake Royal
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Snowflake Royal Whoscored stats based Meite vs Puscas.

Both scored
Puscas assist +
Puscas yellow card -
Puscas better pass completion
Meite more shots on target
Puscas more key passes
Meite way more aerials won
Meite was subbed so his quality was packed into fewer minutes.
Meite 3 dribbles, Puscas 0
Puscas disposed twice as much
Puscas 3 times more unsuccessful touches
Meite 3 tackles, Puscas 0


Etc etc


So in what sense does the rating system not work very well?
It's quite rare for a goal to be complete fluke so not worth amending the scoring.

Because some of the measures it relies upon have an extremely wide range of how much they're actually of benefit.

Key passes and assists for instance.

It also fails to measure anything less easily quantifiable, like cover, positioning, marking, tracking, off the ball movement etc.

The stats themselves are good, especially individually, providing one remembers some are more limited than others, and that they are not the be all and end all.

When added together to provide a rating it all falls down a bit, hence most people watching the game not having Meite or Obita as our best two performers, whilst whoscored does.


A lot of Reading fans have decided Meite is rubbish, so I'm not particularly interested in their opinion of a Meite performance.
You can see in the highlights that Obita cleared it off the line in the goal line scramble at the end. I certainly couldn't see at the time exactly what was happening. A goal line clearance, assist and clean sheet is a pretty good return for a defender.
I'll take a wesbite's unbiased ratings over a fan opinion every day of the week.

tbf Fotmob's ratings were better for yesterday's game, imo:
Rafael: 8.1
Obita: 7.4
Meite: 7.8
Swift: 7.7
Puscas; 8.0

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Re: BFTG Barnsley

by Snowflake Royal » 01 Mar 2020 12:11

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So in what sense does the rating system not work very well?
It's quite rare for a goal to be complete fluke so not worth amending the scoring.

Because some of the measures it relies upon have an extremely wide range of how much they're actually of benefit.

Key passes and assists for instance.

It also fails to measure anything less easily quantifiable, like cover, positioning, marking, tracking, off the ball movement etc.

The stats themselves are good, especially individually, providing one remembers some are more limited than others, and that they are not the be all and end all.

When added together to provide a rating it all falls down a bit, hence most people watching the game not having Meite or Obita as our best two performers, whilst whoscored does.


A lot of Reading fans have decided Meite is rubbish, so I'm not particularly interested in their opinion of a Meite performance.
You can see in the highlights that Obita cleared it off the line in the goal line scramble at the end. I certainly couldn't see at the time exactly what was happening. A goal line clearance, assist and clean sheet is a pretty good return for a defender.
I'll take a wesbite's unbiased ratings over a fan opinion every day of the week.

tbf Fotmob's ratings were better for yesterday's game, imo:
Rafael: 8.1
Obita: 7.4
Meite: 7.8
Swift: 7.7
Puscas; 8.0

Person with a clue >> stats >>>>>>> person without a clue.


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Re: BFTG Barnsley

by 3points » 01 Mar 2020 12:29

URZZZZ
SCIAG
Snowflake Royal Bertrand

Armstrong.

Utterly bizarre comment really, we've nearly always been well-stocked at left back except for about two matches where we had to play Marcus Williams. Armstrong, Bertrand, and Obita have all been in the top three of a POTS vote and Ian Harte was in the Championship team of the season. We have three reliable left backs at the moment for goodness' sake.


More weighting emphasised on most recent events

Struggled for consistency in that LB position from 2016 to 2019 really. Blackett one week, Gunter the next, then Obita, then Richards etc. Good teams will generally have a “preferred” back four, we haven’t found that for a while

Obviously before 2016 the spot was always reliable, completely forgot about Bertrand and Armstrong but both v good fullbacks

Wayne Bridge was good for the few games he managed for us before getting injured too

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Re: BFTG Barnsley

by URZZZZ » 01 Mar 2020 13:01

3points
URZZZZ
SCIAG Armstrong.

Utterly bizarre comment really, we've nearly always been well-stocked at left back except for about two matches where we had to play Marcus Williams. Armstrong, Bertrand, and Obita have all been in the top three of a POTS vote and Ian Harte was in the Championship team of the season. We have three reliable left backs at the moment for goodness' sake.


More weighting emphasised on most recent events

Struggled for consistency in that LB position from 2016 to 2019 really. Blackett one week, Gunter the next, then Obita, then Richards etc. Good teams will generally have a “preferred” back four, we haven’t found that for a while

Obviously before 2016 the spot was always reliable, completely forgot about Bertrand and Armstrong but both v good fullbacks

Wayne Bridge was good for the few games he managed for us before getting injured too


Yeah good point and probably the making of Obita at LB

Would have been interesting to see how Obita would have developed if he’d stayed at LM his entire career

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Re: BFTG Barnsley

by Hound » 01 Mar 2020 13:02

I’m a big fan of whoscored and it does help you re-evaluate the game.
I must say I didn’t think Meite was too impressive, but when you look at the stats, it does remind you he won a lot of headers, had a few dribbles, some shots on target and of course the goal

I do feel it over rates some aspects - and therefore does skew the ratings at times but it’s a great resource

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Re: BFTG Barnsley

by Nameless » 01 Mar 2020 14:20

Meite wins lots of headers because he is a big bloke usually being marked by a smaller bloke and we aim most of our goal kicks at him.
Puscas being listed as having no dribbles is a joke considering one of his dribbles led to him scoring !


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Re: BFTG Barnsley

by sandman » 01 Mar 2020 14:29

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Can't agree with that.

I think Ejaria is an exceptional ball-winner


Won the ball quite a few times on the edge of our box through good positioning. Particularly on one occasion in the second half where he covered for Obita.

Tackling is a last resort, not an admirable quality.

Just because it isn't a primary defensive quality doesn't make it not admirable, it's a very admirable quality because last resorts happen a lot.


Last resorts happen when you have made a mistake and haven't positioned yourself properly. I didn't say it wasn't something you need at times.

No offense but I'll take Xabi Alonso's opinion over yours.

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Re: BFTG Barnsley

by Snowflake Royal » 01 Mar 2020 14:38

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Won the ball quite a few times on the edge of our box through good positioning. Particularly on one occasion in the second half where he covered for Obita.

Tackling is a last resort, not an admirable quality.

Just because it isn't a primary defensive quality doesn't make it not admirable, it's a very admirable quality because last resorts happen a lot.


Last resorts happen when you have made a mistake and haven't positioned yourself properly. I didn't say it wasn't something you need at times.

No offense but I'll take Xabi Alonso's opinion over yours.

Last resorts happen for all sorts of reasons not just down to your own error. I agree with Alonso to an extent, but not to the level you've decided to take it.

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Re: BFTG Barnsley

by P!ssed Off » 01 Mar 2020 16:36

Nameless Meite wins lots of headers because he is a big bloke usually being marked by a smaller bloke and we aim most of our goal kicks at him.


Yeah, you're quite right there's no skill involved, it's all genetics.
The 6ft1 Meite was born with a spring in his step and super strength, nothing to do with hard work on the pitch, training ground and gym.
If only the 6ft2 Puscas was as tall as Meite and had his 'natural' upper body strength then we could just kick the ball at his head and happy days.

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Re: BFTG Barnsley

by RoyalBlue » 01 Mar 2020 17:09

Snowball Before two o'clock I was really worried about this game. I thought we'd lose, probably 0-2 or maybe 1-2 with a late consolation goal. Remember Barnsley had just won three on the trot.

But when the team was announced at 14:02 I felt better, although based on the 0-3 to Wigan I would have dropped Ejaria "for a rest" played Pele welded to the DM position and played Rhino as the box to box man. (So "wasn't sure" about Ejaria...)

I brought my grandson (a rugby fan) to his first soccer game. On the way he said he has never seen the team("his team") lose...

THE GAME

After ten minutes I told grandson, "They've already done twice as much as they did in the whole game v Wigan." For me they were like a totally new eleven.

Though we are always capable of letting in a stupid goal, the game just SMELLED like it would be a good RFC day out.

Some of the bloopers were ridiculous. You could see the lack of belief/confidence, but, saying that, there are times when you could imagine this eleven, this squad, this squad with two additions, going on a run and scoring goals for fun (probably next season, now). My few words review would be "Flashes of Brilliance With Bloopers"

I may be wrong but I can't remember Barnsley opening us up with THEIR football. Most of their chances (as I remember) seemed to come from horror moments from RFC players (Morrison, Obita for example). I've tried, but I can't for the life of me remember the play on 45+2 minutes when Rafael won the game for us with those two back-to-back saves. Was that a Barnsley move that cut us open, or another slip/cock-up/gift? But they were a pair of EXCELLENT saves. Had we conceded on the stork of half-time, it's very likely we'd have lost.

SWIFT.

For me, close to his best game for us, EVER. He RAN the game. He was mature, defended, got us out of tight scrapes, played what seemed like dozens of simple balls that were just right. I'm sure he made mistakes but for me he was our MoM by a country mile.

MEITE

I love him to bits, but (most of the time) he's just a lump. BUT he got a goal. No question it's his goal, and top strikers score of all their bits. As I said, he's not delicate Swift or stick to my boots Ejaria, but there was one passage where he dribbled brilliantly on the edge of our box to get us out of trouble. I'd play him regularly as a RW (tho' today he won more headers than he usually does)..

But I don't think EVER we will be able to call him an intelligent footballer.

PUSCAS

I really hope he stays with us. I think, when we learn how to play to his strengths he will EASILY get 20+ goals a season. For me, that was his best all-round game yet (better than Wigan away or Cardiff home). He threatened all game and the reason he only got a single goal was down to his team-mates, rather than him. His goal was excellent so oxf*rd Dellor ("Inadvertently turned the defender!" WTF?) and he looked dangerous all game, had one great cross that Meite should have done better with.

PS Did anyone notice Meite didn't acknowledge the cross. Are they not buddies? Didn't look like it....



I thought Meite did acknowledge Puscas' great cross. He certainly ran over to embrace Puscas when Puscas scored. In fact I think he was the first player to get to him. I didn't see any visible reason at all to suggest they might not get on well together.


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Re: BFTG Barnsley

by Snowball » 01 Mar 2020 18:53

RoyalBlue
Snowball Before two o'clock I was really worried about this game. I thought we'd lose, probably 0-2 or maybe 1-2 with a late consolation goal. Remember Barnsley had just won three on the trot.

But when the team was announced at 14:02 I felt better, although based on the 0-3 to Wigan I would have dropped Ejaria "for a rest" played Pele welded to the DM position and played Rhino as the box to box man. (So "wasn't sure" about Ejaria...)

I brought my grandson (a rugby fan) to his first soccer game. On the way he said he has never seen the team("his team") lose...

THE GAME

After ten minutes I told grandson, "They've already done twice as much as they did in the whole game v Wigan." For me they were like a totally new eleven.

Though we are always capable of letting in a stupid goal, the game just SMELLED like it would be a good RFC day out.

Some of the bloopers were ridiculous. You could see the lack of belief/confidence, but, saying that, there are times when you could imagine this eleven, this squad, this squad with two additions, going on a run and scoring goals for fun (probably next season, now). My few words review would be "Flashes of Brilliance With Bloopers"

I may be wrong but I can't remember Barnsley opening us up with THEIR football. Most of their chances (as I remember) seemed to come from horror moments from RFC players (Morrison, Obita for example). I've tried, but I can't for the life of me remember the play on 45+2 minutes when Rafael won the game for us with those two back-to-back saves. Was that a Barnsley move that cut us open, or another slip/cock-up/gift? But they were a pair of EXCELLENT saves. Had we conceded on the stork of half-time, it's very likely we'd have lost.

SWIFT.

For me, close to his best game for us, EVER. He RAN the game. He was mature, defended, got us out of tight scrapes, played what seemed like dozens of simple balls that were just right. I'm sure he made mistakes but for me he was our MoM by a country mile.

MEITE

I love him to bits, but (most of the time) he's just a lump. BUT he got a goal. No question it's his goal, and top strikers score of all their bits. As I said, he's not delicate Swift or stick to my boots Ejaria, but there was one passage where he dribbled brilliantly on the edge of our box to get us out of trouble. I'd play him regularly as a RW (tho' today he won more headers than he usually does)..

But I don't think EVER we will be able to call him an intelligent footballer.

PUSCAS

I really hope he stays with us. I think, when we learn how to play to his strengths he will EASILY get 20+ goals a season. For me, that was his best all-round game yet (better than Wigan away or Cardiff home). He threatened all game and the reason he only got a single goal was down to his team-mates, rather than him. His goal was excellent so oxf*rd Dellor ("Inadvertently turned the defender!" WTF?) and he looked dangerous all game, had one great cross that Meite should have done better with.

PS Did anyone notice Meite didn't acknowledge the cross. Are they not buddies? Didn't look like it....



I thought Meite did acknowledge Puscas' great cross. He certainly ran over to embrace Puscas when Puscas scored. In fact I think he was the first player to get to him. I didn't see any visible reason at all to suggest they might not get on well together.


No idea about after the Puscas goal but I very much noticed zero acknowledgement by Meite of that cross

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Re: BFTG Barnsley

by Getthebeerens » 01 Mar 2020 20:17

It wasn’t the most pleasing on the eye performance but great to get the win and see us do the “nasty” parts of the game well. Puscas MOTM for me, felt he held the ball up well and took his goal very well. A few months back he would of taken it closer to the goal before shooting so its good to see the confidence coming back.

Sat back a bit too much in the second half but never really looked troubled. Seems that was a tactical choice rather Barnsley pressuring us.

Would of liked to see us play the ball into space a few more times. We had some decent opportunities to counter which got lost because we played it to feet rather than into the space.

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Re: BFTG Barnsley

by Zammo » 01 Mar 2020 20:18

Much better. Puscas & Swift were ace throughout. LOL at Barnsley continually shooting from 25+ yards BUT why oh why, at 2up, do we defend so deep ?

Oh, liked the new tricky winger.

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Re: BFTG Barnsley

by Pepe the Horseman » 01 Mar 2020 20:19

Snowball
RoyalBlue
Snowball Before two o'clock I was really worried about this game. I thought we'd lose, probably 0-2 or maybe 1-2 with a late consolation goal. Remember Barnsley had just won three on the trot.

But when the team was announced at 14:02 I felt better, although based on the 0-3 to Wigan I would have dropped Ejaria "for a rest" played Pele welded to the DM position and played Rhino as the box to box man. (So "wasn't sure" about Ejaria...)

I brought my grandson (a rugby fan) to his first soccer game. On the way he said he has never seen the team("his team") lose...

THE GAME

After ten minutes I told grandson, "They've already done twice as much as they did in the whole game v Wigan." For me they were like a totally new eleven.

Though we are always capable of letting in a stupid goal, the game just SMELLED like it would be a good RFC day out.

Some of the bloopers were ridiculous. You could see the lack of belief/confidence, but, saying that, there are times when you could imagine this eleven, this squad, this squad with two additions, going on a run and scoring goals for fun (probably next season, now). My few words review would be "Flashes of Brilliance With Bloopers"

I may be wrong but I can't remember Barnsley opening us up with THEIR football. Most of their chances (as I remember) seemed to come from horror moments from RFC players (Morrison, Obita for example). I've tried, but I can't for the life of me remember the play on 45+2 minutes when Rafael won the game for us with those two back-to-back saves. Was that a Barnsley move that cut us open, or another slip/cock-up/gift? But they were a pair of EXCELLENT saves. Had we conceded on the stork of half-time, it's very likely we'd have lost.

SWIFT.

For me, close to his best game for us, EVER. He RAN the game. He was mature, defended, got us out of tight scrapes, played what seemed like dozens of simple balls that were just right. I'm sure he made mistakes but for me he was our MoM by a country mile.

MEITE

I love him to bits, but (most of the time) he's just a lump. BUT he got a goal. No question it's his goal, and top strikers score of all their bits. As I said, he's not delicate Swift or stick to my boots Ejaria, but there was one passage where he dribbled brilliantly on the edge of our box to get us out of trouble. I'd play him regularly as a RW (tho' today he won more headers than he usually does)..

But I don't think EVER we will be able to call him an intelligent footballer.

PUSCAS

I really hope he stays with us. I think, when we learn how to play to his strengths he will EASILY get 20+ goals a season. For me, that was his best all-round game yet (better than Wigan away or Cardiff home). He threatened all game and the reason he only got a single goal was down to his team-mates, rather than him. His goal was excellent so oxf*rd Dellor ("Inadvertently turned the defender!" WTF?) and he looked dangerous all game, had one great cross that Meite should have done better with.

PS Did anyone notice Meite didn't acknowledge the cross. Are they not buddies? Didn't look like it....



I thought Meite did acknowledge Puscas' great cross. He certainly ran over to embrace Puscas when Puscas scored. In fact I think he was the first player to get to him. I didn't see any visible reason at all to suggest they might not get on well together.


No idea about after the Puscas goal but I very much noticed zero acknowledgement by Meite of that cross

He definitely gave him a thumbs up. 100%.

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Re: BFTG Barnsley

by AthleticoSpizz » 01 Mar 2020 20:28

Zammo LOL at Barnsley continually shooting from 25+ yards
yup, as showed by Puscas, that you only need that one shot :)

How many times do we get p1ssed off with our wingers and strikers running into blind alleys tho’?

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Re: BFTG Barnsley

by Hendo » 02 Mar 2020 08:36

Enjoyed that on Saturday, thought we did pretty well for the most part and was a great response after the shambles on Wednesday night.

Thought Puscas was excellent, took his goal exceptionally well, seen a few comments on BBCRB that it was an 'inadvertent' flick? No chance, 100% intentional and really pleased he took the shot early, giving the 'keeper no real chance to close the angle down, shows that his confidence is growing, which can only be a good thing. Held the ball up well for the most part as well and looked fired up. Double figures for the season, great for him. If he gets another 3-5 goals in the remaining games, it has been a successful season for him and I would hope he can then push on next season, any talk of him being sold or cutting our losses, should be firmly put to bed now.

Good double save from Rafael right on half time, if one of those goes in, its a totally different game.

Wan't too worried by the amount of shots Barnsley were having as most of them posed no trouble whatsoever.

Miazga was great, think he needs to start on Tuesday, even if Moore is feeling better. I'd also have Moore and Miazga as my CBs for the remaining league games, think Morrison can be a bit of a liability and just doesn't feel me with confidence, almost like Alex Pearce used to.

Thought the ref was ok, gave some really, really odd decisions but was generally ok.

My uncle, who I usually go with, couldn't make it on Saturday so I thought I would be going by myself, so it was a nice surprise when my old man turned up at 2:30 to join me :)

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Re: BFTG Barnsley

by RoyalBlue » 02 Mar 2020 09:50

Zammo Much better. Puscas & Swift were ace throughout. LOL at Barnsley continually shooting from 25+ yards BUT why oh why, at 2up, do we defend so deep ?

Oh, liked the new tricky winger.


Timbe looked an exciting prospect with the ball at his feet but I was also very impressed by the way he undertook his defensive duties, tracking back, picking up on free opponents, ensuring that he handed them off to a team mate where appropriate - a good and confident communicator.

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