Finance

390 posts
User avatar
Jagermesiter1871
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 1646
Joined: 25 Jul 2010 01:59

Re: Finance

by Jagermesiter1871 » 11 Apr 2020 21:22

How has Mr Dai put £120million in to this bang average team? That's astonishing.

Elm Park Kid
Member
Posts: 997
Joined: 05 Feb 2013 10:45

Re: Finance

by Elm Park Kid » 11 Apr 2020 21:30

Snowflake Royal
Nameless
Snowflake Royal Personally, I'm not ok with cicumnavigating the rules, or running up ludicrous debt.


Except we don’t have any meaningful debt (the sort that gets you wound up by HMRC) and we’ve not circumvented rules. If we had circumvented them we would be in trouble. We’ve found ways to organise our finances so we aren’t breaking the rules. I would suggest clubs who go into administration to avoid paying debts are circumventing rules and causing problems for others. Whether you put an asset in one column or another is purely accounting procedure with no ‘victim’

Bollocks. Dress it up how you want, but spending way more than your income and selling assets to yourself is getting into debt and circumventing the rules.

A few years here and there to make a big step followed by paying it off. Fine. But this is a decade of miss spending on shit to a huge scale.

I wasn't ok with it when other clubs were doing it and I'm not ok with us following.


Ultimately though, this is the league now. There are only two types of team that can compete in the Championship: Those that hit the football lottery by having their youth, cheap signings and managerial appointments all coming good at the same time; and (more often) those that spend vast amounts of money over multiple season. The first method really is about luck, there is not guaranteed way to achieve it. The second requires a combination of deep pockets from owners, large revenue from your fans and some very decent accountants and lawyers.

I hate it, I really do. But this is what football is now - there is so much money in the Premier League that there's a lot of people now ready to pour hundreds of millions into promotion pushes. We either play the game or we refuse and accept that Reading will probably be a championship/league one yo-yo club.

User avatar
STAR Liaison
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 1319
Joined: 14 Apr 2004 09:58

Re: Finance

by STAR Liaison » 12 Apr 2020 10:16

3points
Nameless I see Star have done their usual,thing of getting someone who knows what they are talking about to look at the accounts and give their view (fair chance it is someone who has already posted). Presents a rather less apocalyptic view of things which is nice.
While I think everyone would prefer it if football clubs were not bottomless money pits (despite the fact that they have always been like this, it’s not a modern thing), the somewhat daft FFP rules force clubs to be creative. Looks like our owners are juggling their own money between accounts so the numbers work. They have said that they would rather simply put the cash into the club but aren’t allowed to do so.

IIRC the STAR review is approved by the club, so it will be accurate


It is though through a telephone conversation rather than the usual face to face meeting.

User avatar
STAR Liaison
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 1319
Joined: 14 Apr 2004 09:58

Re: Finance

by STAR Liaison » 12 Apr 2020 10:28

This message is copied from the STAR Forum, where many fear to (or at least don't) tread. It does relate to the finance topic but Reading Matter contains more than that as you might see...

The 2020 edition of 20-page Reading Matter is now out and can be accessed via pdf download from our website www.star-reading.org

It covers the impact of Covid-19, the Reading FC financial situation, our expensive 60-prong attack, Club 1871, Reading fans doing the Charleston, what STAR has been doing over this season and how you (18+s) can stand for election to the STAR Board. Please take a read.

In the current circumstances we are not issuing a printed version of Reading Matter (it might be well out-of-date by the time it arrives) but we may do a limited print run later in the year.

Royals and Racers
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 1754
Joined: 05 Jan 2012 16:48

Re: Finance

by Royals and Racers » 12 Apr 2020 12:37

STAR Liaison This message is copied from the STAR Forum, where many fear to (or at least don't) tread. It does relate to the finance topic but Reading Matter contains more than that as you might see...

The 2020 edition of 20-page Reading Matter is now out and can be accessed via pdf download from our website http://www.star-reading.org

It covers the impact of Covid-19, the Reading FC financial situation, our expensive 60-prong attack, Club 1871, Reading fans doing the Charleston, what STAR has been doing over this season and how you (18+s) can stand for election to the STAR Board. Please take a read.

In the current circumstances we are not issuing a printed version of Reading Matter (it might be well out-of-date by the time it arrives) but we may do a limited print run later in the year.

https://star-reading.org/wp-content/upl ... 0.docx.pdf


Hound
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 16132
Joined: 27 Sep 2016 22:16
Location: Simpleton

Re: Finance

by Hound » 12 Apr 2020 13:06

Royals and Racers
3points
Nameless I see Star have done their usual,thing of getting someone who knows what they are talking about to look at the accounts and give their view (fair chance it is someone who has already posted). Presents a rather less apocalyptic view of things which is nice.
While I think everyone would prefer it if football clubs were not bottomless money pits (despite the fact that they have always been like this, it’s not a modern thing), the somewhat daft FFP rules force clubs to be creative. Looks like our owners are juggling their own money between accounts so the numbers work. They have said that they would rather simply put the cash into the club but aren’t allowed to do so.

IIRC the STAR review is approved by the club, so it will be accurate

A fascinating read https://star-reading.org/wp-content/upl ... -FINAL.pdf


Yep interesting read

User avatar
tmesis
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 1704
Joined: 16 Aug 2013 20:26

Re: Finance

by tmesis » 12 Apr 2020 13:50

Elm Park Kid
Snowflake Royal
Nameless
Except we don’t have any meaningful debt (the sort that gets you wound up by HMRC) and we’ve not circumvented rules. If we had circumvented them we would be in trouble. We’ve found ways to organise our finances so we aren’t breaking the rules. I would suggest clubs who go into administration to avoid paying debts are circumventing rules and causing problems for others. Whether you put an asset in one column or another is purely accounting procedure with no ‘victim’

Bollocks. Dress it up how you want, but spending way more than your income and selling assets to yourself is getting into debt and circumventing the rules.

A few years here and there to make a big step followed by paying it off. Fine. But this is a decade of miss spending on shit to a huge scale.

I wasn't ok with it when other clubs were doing it and I'm not ok with us following.


Ultimately though, this is the league now. There are only two types of team that can compete in the Championship: Those that hit the football lottery by having their youth, cheap signings and managerial appointments all coming good at the same time; and (more often) those that spend vast amounts of money over multiple season. The first method really is about luck, there is not guaranteed way to achieve it. The second requires a combination of deep pockets from owners, large revenue from your fans and some very decent accountants and lawyers.


It's not "luck". It's about good recruitment, recognising staff who are able to do a good job, being able to recognise the cause of failure, rather than just sacking the manager every year.

Good and bad signings don't just happen. A good signing will complement the players you have, will have the right attitude, will have the right skillset needed. Clubs who don't do their homework on player, or just buy people because they are desperate for players and those players were available, invariably make poor choices.


With the parachute payment money sloshing around these days, it is becoming harder for a club like Reading to get promoted to the premier league, but I'd much rather we were run in a sustainable way that pissing £30 million a year up the wall to be a club full of uninterested mediocre footballers on ridiculous wages.

User avatar
One87One
Member
Posts: 391
Joined: 28 Nov 2016 12:04
Location: The Fields of Norfolk Road

Re: Finance

by One87One » 14 Apr 2020 12:02

Popping this here from Policies, as it may/may not, reflect on RFC finances(?)

3points There's something slightly weird in the accounts of one of the companies associated with RFC and the REP development. The Thais have pledged the shares to RFC Propco to someone as security for a loan. The loan has been defaulted upon and therefore someone other than the Thais now own the shares! The accounts then state that this transfer of share ownership is under dispute. I suspect this is a key reason why there's been absolutely no movement on the development.

User avatar
Ascotexgunner
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 3084
Joined: 07 Jan 2012 16:23
Location: Ascot

Re: Finance

by Ascotexgunner » 14 Apr 2020 14:37

One87One Popping this here from Policies, as it may/may not, reflect on RFC finances(?)

3points There's something slightly weird in the accounts of one of the companies associated with RFC and the REP development. The Thais have pledged the shares to RFC Propco to someone as security for a loan. The loan has been defaulted upon and therefore someone other than the Thais now own the shares! The accounts then state that this transfer of share ownership is under dispute. I suspect this is a key reason why there's been absolutely no movement on the development.


My head drops when I hear "fans" moan about the Kronke's and Glazier's of this world. The more I read about these Thai's the more all the clubs biggest problems lead back to them......


User avatar
Snowflake Royal
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 16547
Joined: 20 Jun 2017 17:51

Re: Finance

by Snowflake Royal » 14 Apr 2020 15:03

Ascotexgunner
One87One Popping this here from Policies, as it may/may not, reflect on RFC finances(?)

3points There's something slightly weird in the accounts of one of the companies associated with RFC and the REP development. The Thais have pledged the shares to RFC Propco to someone as security for a loan. The loan has been defaulted upon and therefore someone other than the Thais now own the shares! The accounts then state that this transfer of share ownership is under dispute. I suspect this is a key reason why there's been absolutely no movement on the development.


My head drops when I hear "fans" moan about the Kronke's and Glazier's of this world. The more I read about these Thai's the more all the clubs biggest problems lead back to them......

They start very firmly with Anton Zingaravich

User avatar
Ascotexgunner
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 3084
Joined: 07 Jan 2012 16:23
Location: Ascot

Re: Finance

by Ascotexgunner » 14 Apr 2020 15:19

Snowflake Royal
Ascotexgunner
One87One Popping this here from Policies, as it may/may not, reflect on RFC finances(?)



My head drops when I hear "fans" moan about the Kronke's and Glazier's of this world. The more I read about these Thai's the more all the clubs biggest problems lead back to them......

They start very firmly with Anton Zingaravich


Absolutely, the rot did start with the fake oligarch, but even he didn't damage the club in the way they have, breaking the club up in the way they have done. The sh*t they have caused, the financial mayhem etc. They have robbed this club blind.

User avatar
Snowflake Royal
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 16547
Joined: 20 Jun 2017 17:51

Re: Finance

by Snowflake Royal » 14 Apr 2020 15:38

Ascotexgunner
Snowflake Royal
Ascotexgunner
My head drops when I hear "fans" moan about the Kronke's and Glazier's of this world. The more I read about these Thai's the more all the clubs biggest problems lead back to them......

They start very firmly with Anton Zingaravich


Absolutely, the rot did start with the fake oligarch, but even he didn't damage the club in the way they have, breaking the club up in the way they have done. The sh*t they have caused, the financial mayhem etc. They have robbed this club blind.

I don't think that's clear at all.

They didn't sell the ground into separate ownership. Or the training ground from what I recall.

And we were reportedly on HMRC's winding up list until the Thais came in and covered that debt.

They didn't sign Drenthe or Pogrebnyak either.

SCIAG
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 5157
Joined: 17 Jun 2008 17:43
Location: Liburd for England

Re: Finance

by SCIAG » 14 Apr 2020 16:15

Yeah definitely not getting on the Thai hate train, they had our best interests in mind and clearly cared about the club. Weren’t quite rich enough to do all the financing, and they bungled both Clarke and McDermott, but overall they definitely get pass marks.


User avatar
One87One
Member
Posts: 391
Joined: 28 Nov 2016 12:04
Location: The Fields of Norfolk Road

Re: Finance

by One87One » 14 Apr 2020 16:17

Jagermesiter1871 How has Mr Dai put £120million in to this bang average team? That's astonishing.


Transfer fees, wage bill, paying off failed management and staff, new training ground. Guess it all adds up and doesn't seem to go very far.

Nameless
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 6632
Joined: 23 Aug 2013 12:25

Re: Finance

by Nameless » 14 Apr 2020 17:16

Snowflake Royal
Ascotexgunner
Snowflake Royal They start very firmly with Anton Zingaravich


Absolutely, the rot did start with the fake oligarch, but even he didn't damage the club in the way they have, breaking the club up in the way they have done. The sh*t they have caused, the financial mayhem etc. They have robbed this club blind.

I don't think that's clear at all.

They didn't sell the ground into separate ownership. Or the training ground from what I recall.

And we were reportedly on HMRC's winding up list until the Thais came in and covered that debt.

They didn't sign Drenthe or Pogrebnyak either.


I believe that technically the company that owned the ground was not the football club even in SJM’s days.
And again IIRC the club never owned Hogwood, SJM owned it personally.

User avatar
One87One
Member
Posts: 391
Joined: 28 Nov 2016 12:04
Location: The Fields of Norfolk Road

Re: Finance

by One87One » 14 Apr 2020 17:17

Yep, SJM owned Hogwood. Bought the land off of REME Arborfield.

User avatar
Fox Talbot
Member
Posts: 981
Joined: 09 Nov 2009 16:07
Location: Left Back.

Re: Finance

by Fox Talbot » 14 Apr 2020 17:18

TMESIS QUOTE < It's not "luck". It's about good recruitment, recognising staff who are able to do a good job, being able to recognise the cause of failure, rather than just sacking the manager every year.

Good and bad signings don't just happen. A good signing will complement the players you have, will have the right attitude, will have the right skillset needed. Clubs who don't do their homework on player, or just buy people because they are desperate for players and those players were available, invariably make poor choices. > END QUOTE

The page in Reading Matter '60 prong attack' really brings that point home by listing 60 midfield / strikers we've paid for in the last 7 years. Worth reading for that alone.

WestYorksRoyal
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 1421
Joined: 15 Apr 2019 19:16

Re: Finance

by WestYorksRoyal » 14 Apr 2020 20:58

tmesis
Elm Park Kid
Snowflake Royal Bollocks. Dress it up how you want, but spending way more than your income and selling assets to yourself is getting into debt and circumventing the rules.

A few years here and there to make a big step followed by paying it off. Fine. But this is a decade of miss spending on shit to a huge scale.

I wasn't ok with it when other clubs were doing it and I'm not ok with us following.


Ultimately though, this is the league now. There are only two types of team that can compete in the Championship: Those that hit the football lottery by having their youth, cheap signings and managerial appointments all coming good at the same time; and (more often) those that spend vast amounts of money over multiple season. The first method really is about luck, there is not guaranteed way to achieve it. The second requires a combination of deep pockets from owners, large revenue from your fans and some very decent accountants and lawyers.


It's not "luck". It's about good recruitment, recognising staff who are able to do a good job, being able to recognise the cause of failure, rather than just sacking the manager every year.

Good and bad signings don't just happen. A good signing will complement the players you have, will have the right attitude, will have the right skillset needed. Clubs who don't do their homework on player, or just buy people because they are desperate for players and those players were available, invariably make poor choices.


With the parachute payment money sloshing around these days, it is becoming harder for a club like Reading to get promoted to the premier league, but I'd much rather we were run in a sustainable way that pissing £30 million a year up the wall to be a club full of uninterested mediocre footballers on ridiculous wages.

Glad you got in first. I'm actually thought the first post may be WUMing. Good signings and youth development luck. :lol: :lol: :lol:

User avatar
Jagermesiter1871
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 1646
Joined: 25 Jul 2010 01:59

Re: Finance

by Jagermesiter1871 » 14 Apr 2020 21:34

How come there isn't uproar that non-playing staff at Reading are being furloughed whilst there is no change to players pay?

Nameless
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 6632
Joined: 23 Aug 2013 12:25

Re: Finance

by Nameless » 15 Apr 2020 01:54

Jagermesiter1871 How come there isn't uproar that non-playing staff at Reading are being furloughed whilst there is no change to players pay?


Has there been uproar at other clubs outside the mega rich Big 6 ?

390 posts

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google Adsense [Bot], KentRoyal and 141 guests

It is currently 23 Nov 2020 16:27