Bowen, Sack? Yes or no?

[Stranded]

It's becoming very clear that there are deep rooted issues at the club that clearly need to be worked through, Bowen has done a good job in the environment. If we want it or not this short summer will see a massive churn, with more leaving than likely joining he deserves the chance next season.

[Stranded]

On the wider fanbase not want Bowen? The only way anyone could do at this stage and that is reaction on social media, very much a negative response to Bowen this evening and over the past few weeks.

Basing the consensus of a bunch of kneejerk bedwetters on Twitter as the opinion of the wider fanbase is a fool's errand

That is the only way to gauge reaction though. They aren't bedwetters, they just want better for the club they support. We can do better than Mark Bowen.

TBF a lot on Twitter are absolute bedwetters, some give the impression they wouldn't be happy even if we beat Real 4-1 in the CL final because their consolation goal was a bit sloppy.

Makes this place seem sane.

[From Despair To Where?]

That is the only way to gauge reaction though. They aren't bedwetters, they just want better for the club they support. We can do better than Mark Bowen.

Well, we've had enough attempts in the past 5 years and he's the best we've come up with. Kind of suggests the real problem has been upstairs.

Not sure you can argue Bowen has done better than Stam did

Well, Stam ushered in an era of stultifying football that drove fans away. More pertinent maybe but at the time it was also a period of instability in the boardroom and bad decision making by the current owners with a CEO dishing out large contracts to shit players.

This is the main reason why I believe Bowen needs to be given more time. He is still hamstrung by the shit decisions of previous managers and previous administrations. We are now seeing light at the end of the tunnel (how many times have we thought that in the past 5 years) and what the club needs is stable and sensible stewardship otherwise, we'll continue floundering down the same dead end and this may be the last chance to put the brakes on without droppimg down a division and starting again. Ignore the post lockdown results and performances, it's all been about getting those 3 or 4 points for safety and fulfilling fixtures.

I don't blame Bowen for the current situation, to an extent, I don't even blame the previous managers, the buck stops in the boardroom and the idiots who appointed them and sanctioned the spending. Well, ultimately, the buck stops with that twat Zingarovich who set us on this path in the first place.

[Stranded]

Well, the guy said the right things last night. Get the feeling that we really could have done without this mini season and arguably would have been better off letting all the loans/contracts lapse in June.

Saying he wants a young, hungry team who will play high tempo. Let's see if he can deliver that.

[Simon's Church]

Not yet.

I think we should let him bring in 3 or 4 players, get a decent pre-season in and if we're bottom 10 after 10 games we sack him and bring someone else in. Then if we don't make the playoffs we sack them.

[Elm Park Kid]

I'm interested - We've had a lot of different managers since PL relegation and (apart from that one season under Stam) we've been pretty bad. So if it was just a case of finding the 'right' manager - surely we would have done so already? If this is people's argument, that somehow our squad is constantly underperforming and there's some manager out there that will be able to come in on day one and turn whatever team we have into play off contenders?

I look at the last 10 years and my conclusion is that we are suffering from a lack of continuity. That unless you a prepared to throw A LOT of money at a team over a couple of transfer windows, that achieving success in this league is about building up a team over a series of seasons and developing a proper winning mentality. I've not be particularly impressed with any of the managers we've had - but I get the feeling that if we had just stuck with McDermott(v2)/Clarke/Clement that we would be in a better position than we are now. We might have been relegated one season, but i'm sure we would have jumped back stronger.

[Snowball]

I think I pressed the wrong button, when I answered

I'm not "jumping with joy" but I think Bowen should get another season.

Only if we were in trouble would I get rid.

I thought he had got us playing to be 8th. In fact it was 12th but just one point off eighth. Had we won the Stoke game we would have been clear 8th.

It's been the weirdest season on record, and we've had some decent results, some dire ones, but we are seriously "in flux".

Two strikers got very decent goal-tallies (God knows how). Surely, if we could start in "8th or better" mode next season those guys could get a few more goals? If we have a smaller squad, we might be more consistent, too!

Wasn't Bowen third manager in a year? Whatever his core qualities or deficiencies surely AT LEAST 60-75% of the team's issues come from chronic mismanagement, rapidly changing managers, varying styles, too many loanees, a few bad injuries here and there.

Any manager who can get this season's away record out of a shambolic, crowd of players (I mean mentally.... three players ghosted for months, many loanees, knowing they are going, players running down contracts. Very little of that is Manager-Bowen's fault.

Frankly "8th"/"12th" with that mess. Could anyone REALLY have done better?


======================

Doesn't mean I like a defensive mindset.

Doesn't mean I think there's enough drive, bite, energy in midfield (there rarely is)

But, unless the squad ends up seriously weaker next season, I would expect a result of 8th or better next year. The start will be massive, of course, and we have to break the Madejski Hoodoo, but a good start and we could challenge.

He has earned the right to a year

[Notts Royal]

I’ve not been sold on the style (or lack of). But there have been games when it’s been adequate...it’s all down to tempo for me. When we get that right we look decent.

Strikes me that he’s been in a similar position to Brian v2...bloated squad with a lot of players who wanted to leave. I don’t think the break has helped with that as we looked good at Birmingham...players like Miazga showed some passion then.

It was very harsh to sack Brian then, and in hindsight it was a poor decision. Would we have had a 3rd place finish the following season (like with Stam)? Probably not. But would we have had 3 seasons of bottom-half football? I don’t think so - he would’ve sorted out the root issues.

Bowen is in a similar place now...the owners might be tempted to sack him but I think we should hold fire. We need sustainable brick-by-brick building. There have been positives this season...progress with the academy players. He’s steadied the ship. We need more steadying...it might be boring but it’s what we need now.

[RoyalBlue]

Last night Gooding, like others, claimed that Bowen has improved things.

The reality is somewhat different if you look at the trend. After the initial new manager bounce that largely contributed to our safety from relegation, there has been an increasing decline in performances and results. If my calculations are correct, we have averaged 1.09 PPG in 2020 and just 0.89 PPG since games resumed post lockdown.

That is an alarming downward spiral and if our 'form' post lockdown were replicated throughout a season we would most likely finish rock bottom with just 41 points.

We won just one game at home in 2020.

[paultheroyal]

Last night Gooding, like others, claimed that Bowen has improved things.

The reality is somewhat different if you look at the trend. After the initial new manager bounce that largely contributed to our safety from relegation, there has been an increasing decline in performances and results. If my calculations are correct, we have averaged 1.09 PPG in 2020 and just 0.89 PPG since games resumed post lockdown.

That is an alarming downward spiral and if our 'form' post lockdown were replicated throughout a season we would most likely finish rock bottom with just 41 points.

We won just one game at home in 2020.

Concentrate on this trend - 31 games - league position 7th. Could of saved yourself all that waffle. HTH.

[RoyalBlue]

Well, the guy said the right things last night. Get the feeling that we really could have done without this mini season and arguably would have been better off letting all the loans/contracts lapse in June.

Saying he wants a young, hungry team who will play high tempo. Let's see if he can deliver that.

When he joined he also promised to give us a nasty team who were hard to beat!

Last night he also said he wanted a young team yet put Osho on the bench whilst playing Miazga who I like but is returning to Chelsea!

And could he also not have used the time post securing safety to bring on some of the other youngsters that he talked about? Were we able to recall those on loan once the usual end of the season passed?

So he might be good at saying the right things in the powder puff interviews from Dellor but he is nowhere near as good at delivering on his commitments.

[BarryWhiteRFC]

Whatever your opinion is, we just can't afford to sack him.

[Stranded]

Well, the guy said the right things last night. Get the feeling that we really could have done without this mini season and arguably would have been better off letting all the loans/contracts lapse in June.

Saying he wants a young, hungry team who will play high tempo. Let's see if he can deliver that.

When he joined he also promised to give us a nasty team who were hard to beat!

Last night he also said he wanted a young team yet put Osho on the bench whilst playing Miazga who I like but is returning to Chelsea!

And could he also not have used the time post securing safety to bring on some of the other youngsters that he talked about? Were we able to recall those on loan once the usual end of the season passed?

So he might be good at saying the right things in the powder puff interviews from Dellor but he is nowhere near as good at delivering on his commitments.

Glass half full v glass half empty

Give me the former every day of the week. We are "better" under Bowen than we have been for years bar what was a clear blip year under Stam.

We have at most 7 weeks til the new season starts, with a minimum of 10 players leaving and a manager who has managed to get some improvement out of the squad and got us to mid-table mediocrity - with such a massive overhaul of playing staff about to happen - more out than in this time, changing the manager makes no sense unless he decides to walk.

He gets next season and if we haven't progressed again, his contract doesn't get renewed. Financially, if he goes, we''ll probably end up with Gilkes in charge next season - as with FFP as it is (and assuming it isn't modified/postponed due to COVID) we won't be able to afford to pay Bowen off and pay a new manager too - and we certainly can't afford the compensation needed to bring in someone doing well from elsewhere.

[NewCorkSeth]

No Ian Royal option? What the oxf*rd is this? Amateur hour?

[NewCorkSeth]

No Ian Royal option? What the oxf*rd is this? Amateur hour?

[Hendo]

You can say that again!

[NewCorkSeth]

No Ian Royal option? What the oxf*rd is this? Amateur hour?

[leon]

Idiots

[Hendo]

Time for Coventry away?

[leon]

I'm saying stick with him. However we need some changes.

We need to recognise that in this league (or any other really ) you need to win midfield. And you dont do that with lots of ball playing softies.

We need steel - ie proper defensive midfield tacklers. That will push Rinomhota up a bit and use his natural box to box instincts. He needs to properly fit though. Not sure he is.

This team struggles to play one up front. We can't hold it up and the midfield doesn't make the necessary runs. It kind of worked with Joao but he just doesn't seem to ever play enough games a season - is he normally injured? At best we need a replacement for him when he gets injured. Puscas I do not know. Certainly at home I'd play 2 up with Joao and him.

Playing one up and loading the midfield with attacking midfielders whose movement and creativity on the deck isn't good enough and can't cross the ball isn't the answer. There's a whole generation of managers/coaches who seem to think the Barcelona model is the way forward - they have a lot to answer for.