What has changed so much from last season?

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Vision
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Re: What has changed so much from last season?

by Vision » 30 Oct 2020 08:04

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Mr Angry Re: Sidwell.

First thing to say - SJM was NOT happy at the thought of paying large wage increases to existing players simply because they had - in his mind - done the job they were paid to do, and he saw the wage inflation that came with the promotion as a curse....

My understanding at the time was that he/his agent was approached in the Summer of 2006 by the club with an offer which he/his agent didn't think valued him highly enough.

In the January, Chelsea offered him a substantial raise both compared to Sidwell's then salary, and what we had offered in the Summer of 2006, and he committed to joining Chelsea at that time.

Later in the Season, we offered him more money than Chelsea did, but he decided to turn that down, and still join Chelsea.

Also, by leaving on a free, he would have got a substantial signing on fee.

As for the numbers, I heard figures at the time but frankly, its all irrelevant now - water under the bridge.

However, I will give an illustration of SJM's view of salary offers; Coppell told the story of why Matty Upson failed to join the club.......

.....basically, Upson was very keen to join; he loved the club, loved being adored by the fans, and really wanted to be part of what was happening here. Arsenal indicated that they were happy to release him and for us to talk to the player, so it was decided that, before we spoke transfer fees with Arsenal, we would make an offer to Matty and take it from there.....

.......so, SJM and Coppell met with Matty and his agent; SJM gives all the gushing spiel, how we wanted to have Matty as the club captain, build the team around him, valuable asset for us etc etc etc, and then came the offer.

It was 23% of the salary Matty was on at Arsenal.

Whilst Matty's agent sat there with his mouth open, Matty looked at Coppell and laughed, before he and his agent said "thank you Mr Chairman", got up, and left.

There's a fairly major issue with that story. Upson was with us on loan until December 2002 and Coppell didn't join us until October 2003.


Mr A has mixed up Coppell with Pardew but it's pretty much ( I think he said it worked out as a third of his current salary ) what Pardew said happened at a Fans Forum on the subject at the time.

Worth remembering that this was not that long after the disastrous Burns period where Madejski was on a Tax Dodge in Malaysia and in his absence we paying fortunes in Transfer Fees/ Wages in the 3rd Tier. Madejski became very big on performance related salaries after this. I suspect the initial Sidwell offer in the summer we got promoted would have been considerably bigger when linked to a Top Half Finish as it likely was.

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Re: What has changed so much from last season?

by Snowflake Royal » 30 Oct 2020 08:09

Yeah, vaguely recall the tale and Pards complaining about not getting backing - although around that time we spent close to our transfer record on each of Goater and ... Murray?

It wouldn't really be in character for Coppell to say it e ven if something like that happened to him.

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Re: What has changed so much from last season?

by Hendo » 30 Oct 2020 08:32

Upson still ranks up there, for me, as one of the best defenders we've ever had.

He was oxf*rd class.

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Re: What has changed so much from last season?

by Snowflake Royal » 30 Oct 2020 08:35

Hendo Upson still ranks up there, for me, as one of the best defenders we've ever had.

He was oxf*rd class.

Didn't get to see much of him because I was in my third year at uni at the time. But I remember him being quality.

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Re: What has changed so much from last season?

by Nameless » 30 Oct 2020 08:36

Hendo Upson still ranks up there, for me, as one of the best defenders we've ever had.

He was oxf*rd class.


No he wasn’t

Oxford hardly played for us, to compare Upson to him is crazy....


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Re: What has changed so much from last season?

by Hendo » 30 Oct 2020 08:44

Nameless
Hendo Upson still ranks up there, for me, as one of the best defenders we've ever had.

He was oxf*rd class.


No he wasn’t

Oxford hardly played for us, to compare Upson to him is crazy....


Ha, good one?

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Re: What has changed so much from last season?

by Old Man Andrews » 30 Oct 2020 08:47

Hendo Upson still ranks up there, for me, as one of the best defenders we've ever had.

He was oxf*rd class.

Yep absolutely, he was like a Rolls Royce. He and Martinez are comfortably the best loan players we have ever had.

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Re: What has changed so much from last season?

by Hendo » 30 Oct 2020 08:47

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Hendo Upson still ranks up there, for me, as one of the best defenders we've ever had.

He was oxf*rd class.

Didn't get to see much of him because I was in my third year at uni at the time. But I remember him being quality.


You could tell he was a different level to everyone else, just brilliant.

We kept something stupid like 10 clean sheets in his 14 games.

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Re: What has changed so much from last season?

by Mr Angry » 30 Oct 2020 08:54

Vision
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Mr Angry Re: Sidwell.

First thing to say - SJM was NOT happy at the thought of paying large wage increases to existing players simply because they had - in his mind - done the job they were paid to do, and he saw the wage inflation that came with the promotion as a curse....

My understanding at the time was that he/his agent was approached in the Summer of 2006 by the club with an offer which he/his agent didn't think valued him highly enough.

In the January, Chelsea offered him a substantial raise both compared to Sidwell's then salary, and what we had offered in the Summer of 2006, and he committed to joining Chelsea at that time.

Later in the Season, we offered him more money than Chelsea did, but he decided to turn that down, and still join Chelsea.

Also, by leaving on a free, he would have got a substantial signing on fee.

As for the numbers, I heard figures at the time but frankly, its all irrelevant now - water under the bridge.

However, I will give an illustration of SJM's view of salary offers; Coppell told the story of why Matty Upson failed to join the club.......

.....basically, Upson was very keen to join; he loved the club, loved being adored by the fans, and really wanted to be part of what was happening here. Arsenal indicated that they were happy to release him and for us to talk to the player, so it was decided that, before we spoke transfer fees with Arsenal, we would make an offer to Matty and take it from there.....

.......so, SJM and Coppell met with Matty and his agent; SJM gives all the gushing spiel, how we wanted to have Matty as the club captain, build the team around him, valuable asset for us etc etc etc, and then came the offer.

It was 23% of the salary Matty was on at Arsenal.

Whilst Matty's agent sat there with his mouth open, Matty looked at Coppell and laughed, before he and his agent said "thank you Mr Chairman", got up, and left.

There's a fairly major issue with that story. Upson was with us on loan until December 2002 and Coppell didn't join us until October 2003.


Mr A has mixed up Coppell with Pardew but it's pretty much ( I think he said it worked out as a third of his current salary ) what Pardew said happened at a Fans Forum on the subject at the time.

Worth remembering that this was not that long after the disastrous Burns period where Madejski was on a Tax Dodge in Malaysia and in his absence we paying fortunes in Transfer Fees/ Wages in the 3rd Tier. Madejski became very big on performance related salaries after this. I suspect the initial Sidwell offer in the summer we got promoted would have been considerably bigger when linked to a Top Half Finish as it likely was.


Yep - apologies, it was Pardew; old age playing tricks on the memory, and as Vision said, it was said at a Fans Forum at the time.


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Re: What has changed so much from last season?

by Sutekh » 30 Oct 2020 09:11

Mr Angry Re: Sidwell.

First thing to say - SJM was NOT happy at the thought of paying large wage increases to existing players simply because they had - in his mind - done the job they were paid to do, and he saw the wage inflation that came with the promotion as a curse....

My understanding at the time was that he/his agent was approached in the Summer of 2006 by the club with an offer which he/his agent didn't think valued him highly enough.

In the January, Chelsea offered him a substantial raise both compared to Sidwell's then salary, and what we had offered in the Summer of 2006, and he committed to joining Chelsea at that time.

Later in the Season, we offered him more money than Chelsea did, but he decided to turn that down, and still join Chelsea.

Also, by leaving on a free, he would have got a substantial signing on fee.

As for the numbers, I heard figures at the time but frankly, its all irrelevant now - water under the bridge.

However, I will give an illustration of SJM's view of salary offers; Coppell told the story of why Matty Upson failed to join the club.......

.....basically, Upson was very keen to join; he loved the club, loved being adored by the fans, and really wanted to be part of what was happening here. Arsenal indicated that they were happy to release him and for us to talk to the player, so it was decided that, before we spoke transfer fees with Arsenal, we would make an offer to Matty and take it from there.....

.......so, SJM and Coppell met with Matty and his agent; SJM gives all the gushing spiel, how we wanted to have Matty as the club captain, build the team around him, valuable asset for us etc etc etc, and then came the offer.

It was 23% of the salary Matty was on at Arsenal.

Whilst Matty's agent sat there with his mouth open, Matty looked at Coppell and laughed, before he and his agent said "thank you Mr Chairman", got up, and left.


23%! Seriously the club must have known that was derisory for a player of that quality, it’s not even high enough to start any sort of negotiation.

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Re: What has changed so much from last season?

by Forbury Lion » 30 Oct 2020 14:39

skipper My point being, if Olise leaves, irrespective of us gaining promotion, because he is a free transfer at the end of the season, does he sign for a big team and not play, like Sidwell, or sign for a middling Prem team on more money than we can offer, still play but not achieve what he could? Or stick with us and be the home town hero?

Lot depends on the club, If they had offered Sidwell a decent contract to start with early doors he would have signed it there and then.

He was open and honest with the manager, who I believe being an ex-player himself was open and honest to Sidwell and told him he couldn't turn down Chelsea

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Re: What has changed so much from last season?

by WestYorksRoyal » 30 Oct 2020 18:13

Forbury Lion
skipper My point being, if Olise leaves, irrespective of us gaining promotion, because he is a free transfer at the end of the season, does he sign for a big team and not play, like Sidwell, or sign for a middling Prem team on more money than we can offer, still play but not achieve what he could? Or stick with us and be the home town hero?

Lot depends on the club, If they had offered Sidwell a decent contract to start with early doors he would have signed it there and then.

He was open and honest with the manager, who I believe being an ex-player himself was open and honest to Sidwell and told him he couldn't turn down Chelsea

Was the 1st contract offer the one where Sidwell said he was concerned about supporting his family on £15k a week? :lol: :lol:

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Re: What has changed so much from last season?

by SCIAG » 30 Oct 2020 20:54

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Then he's a tosser.


Why? Because he done something literally anybody else would.


Even for more money, not "literally anybody else" would, but it's more understandable. For less money though definitely not literally anyone else. It's not like it was League One to the PL. We finished 8th in the PL FFS. We had something special. To screw that all up to join a bigger club a few positions higher, for less PL starts and for even less money is basically just sticking the finger up at the club. I've lost respect for him.

To be fair, if a club like that comes knocking and you say no, that chance might not come around again. If you accept it then you have a much better chance at winning trophies. If you don’t then I think there’s a lot of potential for regret, never knowing if you made the most of your abilities.

If he’d stayed with us then we’d almost certainly have stayed up the next season, but the butterfly effect would destroy everything else since then. Not sure I’d trade even four more years in the top flight for the excitement of the McDermott years, Jimmy Kebe, Gylfi, the emergence of our academy, Stamball... but doubtless many equally happy memories would emerge to take their place.


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Re: What has changed so much from last season?

by Snowflake Royal » 30 Oct 2020 21:18

It's just Joao isn't it. Not playing well against Wycombe, he wins the game. Not playing well against Cov he gets us level.

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Re: What has changed so much from last season?

by Simmops » 30 Oct 2020 21:33

Nothing has changed. Pathetic game, spineless loss and we will go down playing like that. Back to normal RFC

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Re: What has changed so much from last season?

by Snowflake Royal » 30 Oct 2020 21:37

Simmops Nothing has changed. Pathetic game, spineless loss and we will go down playing like that. Back to normal RFC

Behave DD.

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Re: What has changed so much from last season?

by Simmops » 30 Oct 2020 21:42

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Simmops Nothing has changed. Pathetic game, spineless loss and we will go down playing like that. Back to normal RFC

Behave DD.


Sorry

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Re: What has changed so much from last season?

by Forbury Lion » 01 Nov 2020 13:09

WestYorksRoyal
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skipper My point being, if Olise leaves, irrespective of us gaining promotion, because he is a free transfer at the end of the season, does he sign for a big team and not play, like Sidwell, or sign for a middling Prem team on more money than we can offer, still play but not achieve what he could? Or stick with us and be the home town hero?

Lot depends on the club, If they had offered Sidwell a decent contract to start with early doors he would have signed it there and then.

He was open and honest with the manager, who I believe being an ex-player himself was open and honest to Sidwell and told him he couldn't turn down Chelsea

Was the 1st contract offer the one where Sidwell said he was concerned about supporting his family on £15k a week? :lol: :lol:
Knowing Reading at the time, we probably offered him less than he was already on.

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Re: What has changed so much from last season?

by TiagoIlori » 03 Nov 2020 18:06

Interesting thread on what Nuno Gomes does. https://twitter.com/1pedroventura1/stat ... 14305?s=21

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