Time to drop Rafael?

Drop Rafael?

Yes
21
37%
No
36
63%
 
Total votes: 57
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Snowflake Royal
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Re: Time to drop Rafael?

by Snowflake Royal » 23 Nov 2020 12:42

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andrew1957 He has been at fault for one goal in each of the last three games but none of these were critical goals that were likely to change the result and he has also made some excellent saves in those games.

So he should stay IMO but he does need to learn from the mistakes and try not repeat them.


has he?

and the second vs stoke was a killer. As was the 4th bournemouth, coming minutes after we were centimetres from equalising. 3rd Cov cost us a point

Yeah, this.

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Re: Time to drop Rafael?

by andrew1957 » 23 Nov 2020 13:08

Old Man Andrews
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andrew1957 He has been at fault for one goal in each of the last three games but none of these were critical goals that were likely to change the result and he has also made some excellent saves in those games.

So he should stay IMO but he does need to learn from the mistakes and try not repeat them.


has he?

Yeah that is pure nonsense. He has done quite the opposite in the Coventry game by letting in goals he should have easily saved. Rafael gets a free ride from the super positive supporters like Andrew, they will back the players no matter what, even if it means them rewriting history.


You are correct that I should have said 3 mistakes in the last 4 games as he was not responsible for any of the goals against Preston. He also kept us in the Preston game by saving a penalty and a point blank stop before they scored their first.

Maybe he cost us a point at Coventry - we will never know for sure - but how many times did he make important saves in the first 8 games during the unbeaten run. So basically he has made three mistakes that have cost goals this season, which is hardly terrible form. If he has made three such mistakes in games 2,7 and 11 for example no one would be calling for him to be dropped. It is just they have come along in quick succession. Pickford has made more howlers this season that Cabral and he is still England's first choice.

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Re: Time to drop Rafael?

by retro royal » 23 Nov 2020 14:08

Problem is he terrifies me each time he needs to kick the ball under pressure, and sometimes when he's not really under that much pressure, what I've seen of Southwood in the u23's and in Scotland he looks much more comfortable, can't see Rafael being dropped though, especially as pressure is growing on the manager.

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Re: Time to drop Rafael?

by URZZZZ » 23 Nov 2020 14:20

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andrew1957 He has been at fault for one goal in each of the last three games but none of these were critical goals that were likely to change the result and he has also made some excellent saves in those games.

So he should stay IMO but he does need to learn from the mistakes and try not repeat them.


has he?

and the second vs stoke was a killer. As was the 4th bournemouth, coming minutes after we were centimetres from equalising. 3rd Cov cost us a point


No it didn’t
The 3rd Coventry goal cost us a chance of getting a result, but it certainly didn’t cost us a point though. Now you can argue he was partially at fault for Coventry’s second which is another story in itself

The problem with his mistakes are that, bar Coventry, none of them have really been dealing with shots and all to do with his distribution. As long as he cuts out the risk taking with the ball, he’ll be fine and I’d be surprised to see him dropped for Wednesday

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Re: Time to drop Rafael?

by linkenholtroyal » 23 Nov 2020 15:55

Its a real hard one its a shame Southwood didn't get more of a cup run as he did look a very good option. He will just be rusty. It reminds me of the Mccarthy Federici Dilemma in which a lot of us thought Mccarthy was not ready but he stepped up and kept Federici out for the rest of the season.
Milwall would be a perfect opportunity for him though it is a team we are at the moment not expecting to get a lot from. give Southwood a go his confidence will be better than Rafaels at the moment. nothing lost by trying it out.


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Re: Time to drop Rafael?

by Millsy » 24 Nov 2020 19:11

Isn’t it funny how our memories are only as good as the last few games?

7 points clear at the top, best defensive record in the country, some great saves and we were discussing how much a decent keeper adds to our success.

A few games of horrific defending, errors pretty much all across the back 5 and HE is the one who must be dropped??

We’re passing it around the back like clowns, go one or two down and then put the back 5 under huge pressure as we (rightly) try to get back into the game.

Last game he made a fantastic save and he does have a lot of good saves in him.

Yeah sure his confidence is screwed up after a couple of howlers. The worst thing we can do is more chopping and changing, destroy his confidence.

I mean yeah sure, if we can get Martinez in on loan to push for the title of course, or if we had a decent backup option, but it’s harsh to just drop him. Pauno is meant to be a motivator. I’m sure he can give him a good talking to.

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Re: Time to drop Rafael?

by Forbury Lion » 25 Nov 2020 10:00

Millsy Isn’t it funny how our memories are only as good as the last few games?

7 points clear at the top, best defensive record in the country, some great saves and we were discussing how much a decent keeper adds to our success.

A few games of horrific defending, errors pretty much all across the back 5 and HE is the one who must be dropped??
This.
There are 5 players at the back whose #1 role is to defend and if the back 4 are playing at their best the goalkeeper will be under threat less often and therefore statistically likely to let fewer in.

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Re: Time to drop Rafael?

by Snowflake Royal » 25 Nov 2020 14:50

Forbury Lion
Millsy Isn’t it funny how our memories are only as good as the last few games?

7 points clear at the top, best defensive record in the country, some great saves and we were discussing how much a decent keeper adds to our success.

A few games of horrific defending, errors pretty much all across the back 5 and HE is the one who must be dropped??
This.
There are 5 players at the back whose #1 role is to defend and if the back 4 are playing at their best the goalkeeper will be under threat less often and therefore statistically likely to let fewer in.

Loving that the fourth goal is now everyone else's fault and not Cabral's. :lol:

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Re: Time to drop Rafael?

by Millsy » 25 Nov 2020 15:17

Snowflake Royal
Forbury Lion
Millsy Isn’t it funny how our memories are only as good as the last few games?

7 points clear at the top, best defensive record in the country, some great saves and we were discussing how much a decent keeper adds to our success.

A few games of horrific defending, errors pretty much all across the back 5 and HE is the one who must be dropped??
This.
There are 5 players at the back whose #1 role is to defend and if the back 4 are playing at their best the goalkeeper will be under threat less often and therefore statistically likely to let fewer in.

Loving that the fourth goal is now everyone else's fault and not Cabral's. :lol:


I'd love to see who wrote that.

Clearly that was a monumental f**kup, and he's made others too.

But few in our back 5 are blame free. Perhaps Morrison this season?

If the defence was absolutely perfect and blame free and it was purely his little flurry of cockups that lost us points against the grain then hell yeah absolutely the obvious answer is to drop him for almost anyone else.

That's clearly not what is going on though. Our defence has been a baffling comedy of errors affecting almost everyone for the last few games. When you have a pile of oxf*rd in front of you as keeper what are you meant to do?

And actually yes 4th goal was his fault but perhaps if it weren't for the clowns in front of him losing our 2-0 lead forcing us to attack like crazy for an equaliser we wouldn't be in the position where the lad has to run out and make that error.

These aren't normal times, this is not a normal defensive unit. This isn't a Karius type issue. He's just another clown in a circus of a defence. Something is very broken and swapping Cabral is going to do little more than swapping McIntyre did or welcoming Moore back did. If anything it will be one step in the wrong direction in terms of rebuilding his confidence and having a sense of cohesion in the defence. Too many changes. They just need to sort out their heads.

One change I'd gladly make as soon as possible though is Yiadom for Esteves, who's a kid out of his depth defensively.
Last edited by Millsy on 25 Nov 2020 15:20, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Time to drop Rafael?

by Vicky Pollard » 25 Nov 2020 15:19

Millsy Isn’t it funny how our memories are only as good as the last few games?

7 points clear at the top, best defensive record in the country, some great saves and we were discussing how much a decent keeper adds to our success.

A few games of horrific defending, errors pretty much all across the back 5 and HE is the one who must be dropped??

We’re passing it around the back like clowns, go one or two down and then put the back 5 under huge pressure as we (rightly) try to get back into the game.

Last game he made a fantastic save and he does have a lot of good saves in him.

Yeah sure his confidence is screwed up after a couple of howlers. The worst thing we can do is more chopping and changing, destroy his confidence.

I mean yeah sure, if we can get Martinez in on loan to push for the title of course, or if we had a decent backup option, but it’s harsh to just drop him. Pauno is meant to be a motivator. I’m sure he can give him a good talking to.



Agree with this. Dropping a keeper is disruptive to the team.

We were singing his praises last year and rightly so - he does not become a bad keeper for a few howlers in what's been a shocking 4 game period defensively across the board. He made a decent save from the free kick just before half time vs. Bournemouth (actually thought at the time how crucial it was to keep the 2-0 lead into HT, lol).

BUT - his kicking has to improve or I do worry for him in the style we are playing. Some of his clearances are Sunday league and make you gulp.

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Re: Time to drop Rafael?

by Sanguine » 25 Nov 2020 15:30

No for me. He certainly needs to give his head a wobble and refocus. You're only as good as your last game, etc. But we shouldn't quickly forget that he's an excellent keeper, his saves probably kept us up last season. Also not sure that where we were going to give Southwood a go, Millwall away is the best place to do that, what with the physicality of Bodvarsson, Cooper, Bennett, Smith etc. I think they'd target him at set pieces.

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Re: Time to drop Rafael?

by Zip » 25 Nov 2020 22:15

He did well tonight. One terrific save and several other clean saves. Hopefully this will boost his confidence.

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Re: Time to drop Rafael?

by Old Man Andrews » 25 Nov 2020 22:31

Kicking was questionable at times, Millwall didn't put him under a lot of pressure either.


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Re: Time to drop Rafael?

by WoodleyRoyal » 30 Dec 2020 10:47

Last chance saloon tonight I feel. Any more mistakes and southwood deserves a chance.

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Re: Time to drop Rafael?

by CountryRoyal » 30 Dec 2020 10:54

WoodleyRoyal Last chance saloon tonight I feel. Any more mistakes and southwood deserves a chance.


I agree. This game has the feel of the Brentford one about it and to a lesser extent Norwich. We’re up against it as it is and certainly unlikely to get any points but we can’t gift the opposition easy goals like we did in said games. This season Raphael has been a shadow of what he was last and it’s costing us.

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Re: Time to drop Rafael?

by Nameless » 30 Dec 2020 10:55

WoodleyRoyal Last chance saloon tonight I feel. Any more mistakes and southwood deserves a chance.

Not sure Southwood ‘deserves’ a chance. That’s presumably based on his hardly having played for months ?
Dropping Rafael would be entirely based on the perception that Rafael is playing badly. There’s no real case for putting Southwood in the team on current form or merit. It would undoubtably be a risk which may or may not pay off. The downside is that if it doesn’t pay off Rafael may be brought back in having been considered not up to it and not really having had an way to improve.
The worst possible scenario would be we end up with 2 keepers being swapped out on a regular basis, neither feeling they have the manager’s confidence.

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Re: Time to drop Rafael?

by CountryRoyal » 30 Dec 2020 10:57

Nameless
WoodleyRoyal Last chance saloon tonight I feel. Any more mistakes and southwood deserves a chance.

Not sure Southwood ‘deserves’ a chance. That’s presumably based on his hardly having played for months ?
Dropping Rafael would be entirely based on the perception that Rafael is playing badly. There’s no real case for putting Southwood in the team on current form or merit. It would undoubtably be a risk which may or may not pay off. The downside is that if it doesn’t pay off Rafael may be brought back in having been considered not up to it and not really having had an way to improve.
The worst possible scenario would be we end up with 2 keepers being swapped out on a regular basis, neither feeling they have the manager’s confidence.


I know what you’re saying but I think that’s playing semantics somewhat. I read it as Southwood deserves a chance purely because Raphael doesn’t deserve to be in the team on merit. Obviously for a number 2 that hasn’t played, it’s hard to show you deserve something without having an opportunity.

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Re: Time to drop Rafael?

by WoodleyRoyal » 30 Dec 2020 10:58

Nameless
WoodleyRoyal Last chance saloon tonight I feel. Any more mistakes and southwood deserves a chance.

Not sure Southwood ‘deserves’ a chance. That’s presumably based on his hardly having played for months ?
Dropping Rafael would be entirely based on the perception that Rafael is playing badly. There’s no real case for putting Southwood in the team on current form or merit. It would undoubtably be a risk which may or may not pay off. The downside is that if it doesn’t pay off Rafael may be brought back in having been considered not up to it and not really having had an way to improve.
The worst possible scenario would be we end up with 2 keepers being swapped out on a regular basis, neither feeling they have the manager’s confidence.


Good post and agreed. It’s a risk for sure. But one which I think needs to be taken even if it’s just a kick up his arse that he is not undroppable

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Re: Time to drop Rafael?

by WoodleyRoyal » 30 Dec 2020 10:59

CountryRoyal
Nameless
WoodleyRoyal Last chance saloon tonight I feel. Any more mistakes and southwood deserves a chance.

Not sure Southwood ‘deserves’ a chance. That’s presumably based on his hardly having played for months ?
Dropping Rafael would be entirely based on the perception that Rafael is playing badly. There’s no real case for putting Southwood in the team on current form or merit. It would undoubtably be a risk which may or may not pay off. The downside is that if it doesn’t pay off Rafael may be brought back in having been considered not up to it and not really having had an way to improve.
The worst possible scenario would be we end up with 2 keepers being swapped out on a regular basis, neither feeling they have the manager’s confidence.


I know what you’re saying but I think that’s playing semantics somewhat. I read it as Southwood deserves a chance purely because Raphael doesn’t deserve to be in the team on merit. Obviously for a number 2 that hasn’t played, it’s hard to show you deserve something without having an opportunity.


This

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Re: Time to drop Rafael?

by Stranded » 30 Dec 2020 11:01

If Rafael drops another clanger or two tonight that lead to goal(s) then it may do him good to miss a couple of games and work on the areas that are of concern - Southwood gets a few games to show he is ready to be #1 and if he takes it great, if not then Rafael comes back in with a hopefully clear head in a little while.

Would imagine though we will see Rafael tonight and on Saturday and Southwood will get a start at Luton in the cup and go from there.

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