MATCHWATCH : Norwich City (h) sponsored by as tough as it gets

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Norwich City (h) sponsored by as tough as it gets

by Zip » 17 Dec 2020 09:04

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Zip I would rather Melvin-Lambert was now given a chance rather than persevere with Baldock. He has no attacking instinct at all which isn’t great when he’s playing the line striker role.


I agree 100%.

We could’ve done with someone raw with a bit of pace up front as we were always going to be trying to hit Norwich on the break tonight. Would’ve scared the living daylights out of Grant Hanley. He looked really slow, just looked his age up and can’t believe he is still only 29, he runs like someone who is 59 and smokes 40 a day.


To be fair, we put a pacey raw player on with 10mins to go. Unfortunately bar winning a free kick in injury time all Onen added was a yellow card.


Well Onen did more than Baldock did then and we did come close to scoring from that free-kick.

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Norwich City (h) sponsored by as tough as it gets

by Hound » 17 Dec 2020 09:06

Zip
Hound Thought Gibson and Holmes were excellent generally

Laurent - I’d agree he wasn’t quite on top form - was passed around a bit at times, and we lost control of the midfield second half. But he also did some really good stuff


Gibson’s distribution was excellent but he got beaten twice and it left us exposed. The second time the pen was the outcome.

When teams high press we have to play differently. I don’t see other teams gifting the type of goal we conceded last night when we try and pass our way upfield. I also don’t see any other teams pass back to the keeper so often. Too many times Rafael has to make a rushed clearance which ends up going high into the sky and not making much distance or going to an opposition player.


Generally we've played it ok - is the other option whack it forward for Baldock/Semedo to lose it in the air - and the ball coming flying back at our defence?

Rino just messed up with an awful pass. I don't think its even related to playing out, he was barely under pressure. Just a dreadful mistake

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Norwich City (h) sponsored by as tough as it gets

by Zip » 17 Dec 2020 09:09

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Zip
Hound Thought Gibson and Holmes were excellent generally

Laurent - I’d agree he wasn’t quite on top form - was passed around a bit at times, and we lost control of the midfield second half. But he also did some really good stuff


Gibson’s distribution was excellent but he got beaten twice and it left us exposed. The second time the pen was the outcome.

When teams high press we have to play differently. I don’t see other teams gifting the type of goal we conceded last night when we try and pass our way upfield. I also don’t see any other teams pass back to the keeper so often. Too many times Rafael has to make a rushed clearance which ends up going high into the sky and not making much distance or going to an opposition player.


Generally we've played it ok - is the other option whack it forward for Baldock/Semedo to lose it in the air - and the ball coming flying back at our defence?

Rino just messed up with an awful pass. I don't think its even related to playing out, he was barely under pressure. Just a dreadful mistake


Yet playing out often leads to an even worse clearance than playing it long. I don’t see any other keeper in this division under the sort of pressure Rafael is under to clear the ball. It happens too often and leads to very poor clearances.

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Norwich City (h) sponsored by as tough as it gets

by Snowflake Royal » 17 Dec 2020 09:35

Zip
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To be fair, we put a pacey raw player on with 10mins to go. Unfortunately bar winning a free kick in injury time all Onen added was a yellow card.


Bit of a bizarre comment from those two seeing as Baldock was often looking to run on the shoulder but rarely got a good enough pass to do it and was mostly asked to play with back to goal against them or compete for headers with them.

He's not great but he's almost never given any service he can do anything with.


He is not good enough to play the lone striker role. He had service last night and messed it up. He was in a great position to either shoot or attack the defender on the edge of the penalty box and chose to do neither. He also managed to be flagged offside on a rare a counter attack where Norwich were stretched. He does make good runs but they take him down one side of the pitch and he hasn’t the ability to do anything with the ball than pass it back. There is then no-one in the penalty box to attack any cross so momentum is lost.

It said it all that with all our senior strikers injured Pauno didn’t want to start him. Baldock has been terrible value for money. A miserable ten goals in his time with us.

He didn't manage to be flagged offside.

He ran, no pass, checked back onside, ran and got a fractionally delayed pass that saw him offside.

If you run the shoulder you'll get caught off sometimes. It's not like he was just standing offside oblivious. He was making the runs. And even if he'd been on the ball was too over hit to do much with.

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Norwich City (h) sponsored by as tough as it gets

by Snowflake Royal » 17 Dec 2020 09:38

Hound
Zip
Hound Thought Gibson and Holmes were excellent generally

Laurent - I’d agree he wasn’t quite on top form - was passed around a bit at times, and we lost control of the midfield second half. But he also did some really good stuff


Gibson’s distribution was excellent but he got beaten twice and it left us exposed. The second time the pen was the outcome.

When teams high press we have to play differently. I don’t see other teams gifting the type of goal we conceded last night when we try and pass our way upfield. I also don’t see any other teams pass back to the keeper so often. Too many times Rafael has to make a rushed clearance which ends up going high into the sky and not making much distance or going to an opposition player.


Generally we've played it ok - is the other option whack it forward for Baldock/Semedo to lose it in the air - and the ball coming flying back at our defence?

Rino just messed up with an awful pass. I don't think its even related to playing out, he was barely under pressure. Just a dreadful mistake

It relates to passing it out, because under little immediate pressure with players all around our third he chose to play a pass across the face of our box.

If you don't play passing it out, you don't do that.


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Re: MATCHWATCH : Norwich City (h) sponsored by as tough as it gets

by Hound » 17 Dec 2020 09:42

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Zip
Gibson’s distribution was excellent but he got beaten twice and it left us exposed. The second time the pen was the outcome.

When teams high press we have to play differently. I don’t see other teams gifting the type of goal we conceded last night when we try and pass our way upfield. I also don’t see any other teams pass back to the keeper so often. Too many times Rafael has to make a rushed clearance which ends up going high into the sky and not making much distance or going to an opposition player.


Generally we've played it ok - is the other option whack it forward for Baldock/Semedo to lose it in the air - and the ball coming flying back at our defence?

Rino just messed up with an awful pass. I don't think its even related to playing out, he was barely under pressure. Just a dreadful mistake

It relates to passing it out, because under little immediate pressure with players all around our third he chose to play a pass across the face of our box.

If you don't play passing it out, you don't do that.


Do you definitively not? What about if that had come in a different phase of play, ie just won a tackle there?

Sometimes, like this one - its not the process at fault, its just a terrible pass.

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Norwich City (h) sponsored by as tough as it gets

by Stranded » 17 Dec 2020 09:43

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Bit of a bizarre comment from those two seeing as Baldock was often looking to run on the shoulder but rarely got a good enough pass to do it and was mostly asked to play with back to goal against them or compete for headers with them.

He's not great but he's almost never given any service he can do anything with.


He is not good enough to play the lone striker role. He had service last night and messed it up. He was in a great position to either shoot or attack the defender on the edge of the penalty box and chose to do neither. He also managed to be flagged offside on a rare a counter attack where Norwich were stretched. He does make good runs but they take him down one side of the pitch and he hasn’t the ability to do anything with the ball than pass it back. There is then no-one in the penalty box to attack any cross so momentum is lost.

It said it all that with all our senior strikers injured Pauno didn’t want to start him. Baldock has been terrible value for money. A miserable ten goals in his time with us.

He didn't manage to be flagged offside.

He ran, no pass, checked back onside, ran and got a fractionally delayed pass that saw him offside.

If you run the shoulder you'll get caught off sometimes. It's not like he was just standing offside oblivious. He was making the runs. And even if he'd been on the ball was too over hit to do much with.


Yeah agreed there, that offside was not Baldocks "fault", the delay in pass saw him flagged and even then the pass was pretty awful.

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Norwich City (h) sponsored by as tough as it gets

by URZZZZ » 17 Dec 2020 09:57

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Generally we've played it ok - is the other option whack it forward for Baldock/Semedo to lose it in the air - and the ball coming flying back at our defence?

Rino just messed up with an awful pass. I don't think its even related to playing out, he was barely under pressure. Just a dreadful mistake

It relates to passing it out, because under little immediate pressure with players all around our third he chose to play a pass across the face of our box.

If you don't play passing it out, you don't do that.


Do you definitively not? What about if that had come in a different phase of play, ie just won a tackle there?

Sometimes, like this one - its not the process at fault, its just a terrible pass.


Players need to start using and exploiting the space

Holmes had some ahead of him to go into. Needs to try and commit their player before passing

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Norwich City (h) sponsored by as tough as it gets

by Hound » 17 Dec 2020 09:59

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Snowflake Royal It relates to passing it out, because under little immediate pressure with players all around our third he chose to play a pass across the face of our box.

If you don't play passing it out, you don't do that.


Do you definitively not? What about if that had come in a different phase of play, ie just won a tackle there?

Sometimes, like this one - its not the process at fault, its just a terrible pass.


Players need to start using and exploiting the space

Holmes had some ahead of him to go into. Needs to try and commit their player before passing


that I agree with. It was a poor pass into Rino initially - and too often we do go back when we could go forward.

But I guess thats partly an issue with playing 2 cbs out of position at fb


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Re: MATCHWATCH : Norwich City (h) sponsored by as tough as it gets

by URZZZZ » 17 Dec 2020 10:06

CountryRoyal Side note - what does Esteves offer? Because I don’t buy his “attacking threat”. Think there was one decentish ball into the box? Lost the ball in a dangerous area and they hit the post, then all he seemed to do was run on the ball a few yards and pass backwards. For all this supposed skill he’s basically a long haired Gunter.


Doesn’t offer a lot but he’s at least a RB and looks a natural. He shouldn’t have started today as his positioning would have been exploited IMO but should be back in until Yiadom/Araruna return

It’s pretty painful watching so many CB’s, very Pulis esque tactic, even if his hand is slightly forced at the moment

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Norwich City (h) sponsored by as tough as it gets

by Notts Royal » 17 Dec 2020 10:07

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CountryRoyal Side note - what does Esteves offer? Because I don’t buy his “attacking threat”. Think there was one decentish ball into the box? Lost the ball in a dangerous area and they hit the post, then all he seemed to do was run on the ball a few yards and pass backwards. For all this supposed skill he’s basically a long haired Gunter.

Nothing. I don't think I've really seen any attacking threat from him.


I think all the hype over his signing has actually really helped Holmes...Esteves has been a real disappointment (so far) whilst Holmes is currently better both at attacking and, more importantly, defending

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Norwich City (h) sponsored by as tough as it gets

by URZZZZ » 17 Dec 2020 10:15

Mr Optimist
Zip I would rather Melvin-Lambert was now given a chance rather than persevere with Baldock. He has no attacking instinct at all which isn’t great when he’s playing the line striker role.


I agree 100%.

We could’ve done with someone raw with a bit of pace up front as we were always going to be trying to hit Norwich on the break tonight. Would’ve scared the living daylights out of Grant Hanley. He looked really slow, just looked his age up and can’t believe he is still only 29, he runs like someone who is 59 and smokes 40 a day.


Or we could have tried them together, gone two up top

Baldock was chasing shadows last night, Norwich were so comfortable passing around as we didn’t pressurise them in the last bit of the game, a second striker might have forced them to alter their ways a bit

Do think the Baldock scapegoating is getting quite tiresome. I guess we’ve moved on from Gunter last year and it takes the crown away from Aluko but he’s not a bad Championship striker. He’s never been an out and out goalscorer but he’s been a big part of 2/3 promotion pushing campaigns elsewhere - which says something. It’s not his fault we’re not utilising his strengths

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Norwich City (h) sponsored by as tough as it gets

by Hound » 17 Dec 2020 10:26

Baldock did fine last night tbh with poor service. We're just not set up to his strengths


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Re: MATCHWATCH : Norwich City (h) sponsored by as tough as it gets

by Pepe the Horseman » 17 Dec 2020 10:39

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CountryRoyal Side note - what does Esteves offer? Because I don’t buy his “attacking threat”. Think there was one decentish ball into the box? Lost the ball in a dangerous area and they hit the post, then all he seemed to do was run on the ball a few yards and pass backwards. For all this supposed skill he’s basically a long haired Gunter.

Nothing. I don't think I've really seen any attacking threat from him.


I think all the hype over his signing has actually really helped Holmes...Esteves has been a real disappointment (so far) whilst Holmes is currently better both at attacking and, more importantly, defending

I think they've been pretty similar, but Holmes is seen as doing better because of the Esteves hype. Holmes has been very lucky on occasions, whereas Esteves has been quite unlucky. Agree with the overall point that Esteves hasn't actually offered much attacking threat. He seems really slow going forwards without the ball.

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Norwich City (h) sponsored by as tough as it gets

by Notts Royal » 17 Dec 2020 10:41

Hound Baldock did fine last night tbh with poor service. We're just not set up to his strengths


Many a time we’ve said the same thing about Puscas; yes he’s a better player than Baldock but we often don’t play to his strengths.

I’m happy we have a set way of doing things and Paunovic doesn’t tinker too much. But he’s going to have to find a Plan B at some point otherwise we’ll be found out.

My irritation is with Semedo being played out of position. Laurent & Rino badly need a game off each and Semedo was supposedly the back up for them. Playing him further forward is effectively weakening 2 areas of the pitch in 1 go

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Norwich City (h) sponsored by as tough as it gets

by Hound » 17 Dec 2020 10:58

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Hound Baldock did fine last night tbh with poor service. We're just not set up to his strengths


Many a time we’ve said the same thing about Puscas; yes he’s a better player than Baldock but we often don’t play to his strengths.

I’m happy we have a set way of doing things and Paunovic doesn’t tinker too much. But he’s going to have to find a Plan B at some point otherwise we’ll be found out.

My irritation is with Semedo being played out of position. Laurent & Rino badly need a game off each and Semedo was supposedly the back up for them. Playing him further forward is effectively weakening 2 areas of the pitch in 1 go


tbf to Puscas - I agree we don't play to his strengths and he still scored 14 last year - and two this.

Agree on Semedo and the need to rotate Rino and Laurent. Think maybe he sees McIntyre being able to do a holding midfield job - he has done ok off the bench there

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Norwich City (h) sponsored by as tough as it gets

by WestYorksRoyal » 17 Dec 2020 11:47

I thought Gibson had a tendency to drift narrow, just as you'd expect a CB playing at LB too. Most of Norwich's threat came down the right, which is partly due to the quality of Aarons. But we definitely left space there.

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Norwich City (h) sponsored by as tough as it gets

by tidus_mi2 » 17 Dec 2020 12:39

and so this was officially our last game of 2020.

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Norwich City (h) sponsored by as tough as it gets

by Westwood52 » 17 Dec 2020 19:52

URZZZZ
Mr Optimist
Zip I would rather Melvin-Lambert was now given a chance rather than persevere with Baldock. He has no attacking instinct at all which isn’t great when he’s playing the line striker role.


I agree 100%.

We could’ve done with someone raw with a bit of pace up front as we were always going to be trying to hit Norwich on the break tonight. Would’ve scared the living daylights out of Grant Hanley. He looked really slow, just looked his age up and can’t believe he is still only 29, he runs like someone who is 59 and smokes 40 a day.


Or we could have tried them together, gone two up top

Baldock was chasing shadows last night, Norwich were so comfortable passing around as we didn’t pressurise them in the last bit of the game, a second striker might have forced them to alter their ways a bit

Do think the Baldock scapegoating is getting quite tiresome. I guess we’ve moved on from Gunter last year and it takes the crown away from Aluko but he’s not a bad Championship striker. He’s never been an out and out goalscorer but he’s been a big part of 2/3 promotion pushing campaigns elsewhere - which says something. It’s not his fault we’re not utilising his strengths


I just think at his age he has lost a yard of pace,and without that he has nothing else to offer.

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Re: MATCHWATCH : Norwich City (h) sponsored by as tough as it gets

by Zip » 17 Dec 2020 20:08

WestYorksRoyal I thought Gibson had a tendency to drift narrow, just as you'd expect a CB playing at LB too. Most of Norwich's threat came down the right, which is partly due to the quality of Aarons. But we definitely left space there.


Very much so.

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