90s Man U vs 20's Royals.

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90s Man U vs 20's Royals.

by skipper » 17 Feb 2021 20:13

I was just having a conversation with my cousin about Richards, when I wrote that I think we have a generational thing, somewhat akin to Utd did in the 90s.

So many players came through for Utd at the same time and made the first team (and won the league). We seem to have had a similar experience this year with Holmes, McIntyre, Olise, Richards joining Rhinomota and to a lesser extend Southwood in the first team. If Loader had stayed (and continued to develop) I may well be able to legitimately claim this, especially if we go on to be promoted.

I'm not saying we're as good as Utd, obviously, but for our level, and the clamour for some of our players, it is really quite impressive.

I think after last night too, seeing Olise celebrate with both Joao and Morrison, I think I love him more than Ths Sig now...

For those who are in the know, what are the likelihoods of some of the 23s making the same impact on the first team?

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Re: 90s Man U vs 20's Royals.

by SCIAG » 17 Feb 2021 21:13

The thing to keep in mind is that all the players are different ages.

Off the top of my head, Rino is a year older than Richards (and Southwood), who is a year older than McIntyre, who is a year older than Holmes, who is two years older than Olise.

If the theory is that we should be producing one player a year, then we're doing well. Particularly as that doesn't include other players we have produced. Holsgrove for example is now playing in the Spanish top flight.

There are some individual years that are particularly impressive:

- Players who turned 18 during 2005-06 include Shane Long, Simon Cox, Curtis Osano, Darren Campbell, Peter Castle (our youngest ever player) and Jonny Hayes (possibly our most successful true academy graduate who didn't play for the first team). These players have made over 1000 career appearances in the Championship, PL, or SPL.

- In 2007-08 we got to the FA Youth Cup quarter finals with a team containing Alex Pearce, Jem Karacan, James Henry, Julian Kelly, Simon Church, and Nicholas Bignall, and Hal Robson-Kanu who was a sub. Again, these players have made over 1400 career appearances across the PL, Championship, and SPL- over 800 of which were for Reading. Also in the team were first-year scholars Alex McCarthy and Gylfi - these two made 126 appearances for Reading and 607 at this level or higher. IMO this is when our academy really "came of age"

- Our best performance in the Youth Cup came when we reached the semi finals in 2013/14. We won the Premier League 2 cup the same season. That was the result of three excellent years, which produced the following players who have played at this level or higher: Jake Cooper, Niall Keown, Sean Long, Aaron Tshibola, Craig Tanner, Uche Ikpeazu (honourable mention to Shane Griffin played for the first team in a mid-season friendly against Oman); Liam Kelly, Aaron Kuhl, Jack Stacey, Tariqe Fosu, Rob Dickie, Dom Hyam, Conor Shaughnessy, Sammi Fridjonsson; and finally, Andy Rinomhota, Tennai Watson, and Andrija Novakovich (although of those last three, only Watson played any role in our youth achievements). We probably once again only really benefited from one player in each age group - Cooper, Kelly, and Rinomhota, with honourable mention for Tshibola - but we produced a heck of a lot of players who either went on to play at this level or probably would have done if not for terrible luck (Kuhl and Tanner and maybe Watson).

I would compare the "Pearce generation" and the "Kelly generation" to the Class of 96. Large bunch of players who all great up playing together. Obviously the Pearce generation had a big impact in this club and the Kelly generation mostly didn't. The current crop are more like the United players who have come through since then - a steady flow rather than a torrent. The age gap between Rino and Olise is bigger than the age gap between Rashford and Pogba.

As for future players? I quite like Nelson Abbey - but he plays in exactly the same position as Tom McIntyre. So does Jersiel Dorsett, who Mark Bowen was very keen on. We've got some tidy midfield players like Dejan Tetek, Oliver Pendlebury, and my personal favourite, Conor Lawless - but it's hard to see them getting chances any time soon, they're not fighters like Rino and Laurent. Perhaps in the Swift role. I think most people have heard of Thierry Nevers, who is close friends with Olise and could be a wide option. I like Melvin-Lambert's presence in the box but he's quite old fashioned, doesn't have much link play, and Paunovic clearly doesn't rate him. I've hedged quite a lot there, but aside from maybe Nevers there's nobody who clearly fills a gap in the first team squad. Again I should emphasise that while I used to know a lot about the Academy for various reasons, these days I only know as much as an interested fan could be expected to know, and with COVID that's not very much, so don't take my word for very much. I do love watching Abbey and Lawless play but I haven't seen enough of them lately to get a feel for how good they actually are.

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Re: 90s Man U vs 20's Royals.

by From Despair To Where? » 17 Feb 2021 22:03

Its nothing new though. In 1994/95 we had Ady Williams, Scott Taylor, Stuart Lovell and Jamie Lambert in the team with David Bass, Alan Carey, Michael Murphy and Lea Barkus also playing that season and the likes of Michael Thorp, Neville Roach, Byron Glasgow and Jamie Ashdown coming through in the 2 or 3 years following.

It kind of dipped around the turn of the centur but there's still Nathan Tyson, Darius Henderson and Jamie Young.

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Re: 90s Man U vs 20's Royals.

by skipper » 18 Feb 2021 08:36

SCIAG Superb


Thank's Sciag, that's a thorough and excellent reply!

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Re: 90s Man U vs 20's Royals.

by leon » 18 Feb 2021 09:15

From Despair To Where?
It kind of dipped around the turn of the centur.


I was amazed by that.


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Re: 90s Man U vs 20's Royals.

by From Despair To Where? » 18 Feb 2021 09:27

leon
From Despair To Where?
It kind of dipped around the turn of the centur.


I was amazed by that.


Did you get lost on your way to AE, leon?

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Re: 90s Man U vs 20's Royals.

by leon » 18 Feb 2021 11:17

From Despair To Where?
leon
From Despair To Where?
It kind of dipped around the turn of the centur.


I was amazed by that.


Did you get lost on your way to AE, leon?

:wink:

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Re: 90s Man U vs 20's Royals.

by KC Royal » 18 Feb 2021 16:11

SCIAG The thing to keep in mind is that all the players are different ages.

Off the top of my head, Rino is a year older than Richards (and Southwood), who is a year older than McIntyre, who is a year older than Holmes, who is two years older than Olise.

If the theory is that we should be producing one player a year, then we're doing well. Particularly as that doesn't include other players we have produced. Holsgrove for example is now playing in the Spanish top flight.

There are some individual years that are particularly impressive:

- Players who turned 18 during 2005-06 include Shane Long, Simon Cox, Curtis Osano, Darren Campbell, Peter Castle (our youngest ever player) and Jonny Hayes (possibly our most successful true academy graduate who didn't play for the first team). These players have made over 1000 career appearances in the Championship, PL, or SPL.

- In 2007-08 we got to the FA Youth Cup quarter finals with a team containing Alex Pearce, Jem Karacan, James Henry, Julian Kelly, Simon Church, and Nicholas Bignall, and Hal Robson-Kanu who was a sub. Again, these players have made over 1400 career appearances across the PL, Championship, and SPL- over 800 of which were for Reading. Also in the team were first-year scholars Alex McCarthy and Gylfi - these two made 126 appearances for Reading and 607 at this level or higher. IMO this is when our academy really "came of age"

- Our best performance in the Youth Cup came when we reached the semi finals in 2013/14. We won the Premier League 2 cup the same season. That was the result of three excellent years, which produced the following players who have played at this level or higher: Jake Cooper, Niall Keown, Sean Long, Aaron Tshibola, Craig Tanner, Uche Ikpeazu (honourable mention to Shane Griffin played for the first team in a mid-season friendly against Oman); Liam Kelly, Aaron Kuhl, Jack Stacey, Tariqe Fosu, Rob Dickie, Dom Hyam, Conor Shaughnessy, Sammi Fridjonsson; and finally, Andy Rinomhota, Tennai Watson, and Andrija Novakovich (although of those last three, only Watson played any role in our youth achievements). We probably once again only really benefited from one player in each age group - Cooper, Kelly, and Rinomhota, with honourable mention for Tshibola - but we produced a heck of a lot of players who either went on to play at this level or probably would have done if not for terrible luck (Kuhl and Tanner and maybe Watson).

I would compare the "Pearce generation" and the "Kelly generation" to the Class of 96. Large bunch of players who all great up playing together. Obviously the Pearce generation had a big impact in this club and the Kelly generation mostly didn't. The current crop are more like the United players who have come through since then - a steady flow rather than a torrent. The age gap between Rino and Olise is bigger than the age gap between Rashford and Pogba.

As for future players? I quite like Nelson Abbey - but he plays in exactly the same position as Tom McIntyre. So does Jersiel Dorsett, who Mark Bowen was very keen on. We've got some tidy midfield players like Dejan Tetek, Oliver Pendlebury, and my personal favourite, Conor Lawless - but it's hard to see them getting chances any time soon, they're not fighters like Rino and Laurent. Perhaps in the Swift role. I think most people have heard of Thierry Nevers, who is close friends with Olise and could be a wide option. I like Melvin-Lambert's presence in the box but he's quite old fashioned, doesn't have much link play, and Paunovic clearly doesn't rate him. I've hedged quite a lot there, but aside from maybe Nevers there's nobody who clearly fills a gap in the first team squad. Again I should emphasise that while I used to know a lot about the Academy for various reasons, these days I only know as much as an interested fan could be expected to know, and with COVID that's not very much, so don't take my word for very much. I do love watching Abbey and Lawless play but I haven't seen enough of them lately to get a feel for how good they actually are.


Great post but wasn't it 2006/07 when we reached the FA Youth Cup QFs? I've looked back at that run before and thought what a team it was, though it was interesting to read on here that McCarthy was criticised for his kicking even back then! That team lost 1-0 to Liverpool, and I remember the match report on the official site saying we were unlucky to go out. Liverpool went on to win the cup, but apart from Jay Spearing i'm not sure how many of their players went on to play in the top 2 divisions. I certainly struggled to recognise others.

I may have been more into the Youth Cup in 2013/14 mainly through being able to watch the games on Youtube or LFC TV, and obviously we went further that year, but it's actually the 2006/07 team that has the wow factor for me with the benefit of hindsight given what the players went on to achieve.

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Re: 90s Man U vs 20's Royals.

by SCIAG » 20 Feb 2021 18:16

KC Royal
SCIAG The thing to keep in mind is that all the players are different ages.

Off the top of my head, Rino is a year older than Richards (and Southwood), who is a year older than McIntyre, who is a year older than Holmes, who is two years older than Olise.

If the theory is that we should be producing one player a year, then we're doing well. Particularly as that doesn't include other players we have produced. Holsgrove for example is now playing in the Spanish top flight.

There are some individual years that are particularly impressive:

- Players who turned 18 during 2005-06 include Shane Long, Simon Cox, Curtis Osano, Darren Campbell, Peter Castle (our youngest ever player) and Jonny Hayes (possibly our most successful true academy graduate who didn't play for the first team). These players have made over 1000 career appearances in the Championship, PL, or SPL.

- In 2007-08 we got to the FA Youth Cup quarter finals with a team containing Alex Pearce, Jem Karacan, James Henry, Julian Kelly, Simon Church, and Nicholas Bignall, and Hal Robson-Kanu who was a sub. Again, these players have made over 1400 career appearances across the PL, Championship, and SPL- over 800 of which were for Reading. Also in the team were first-year scholars Alex McCarthy and Gylfi - these two made 126 appearances for Reading and 607 at this level or higher. IMO this is when our academy really "came of age"

- Our best performance in the Youth Cup came when we reached the semi finals in 2013/14. We won the Premier League 2 cup the same season. That was the result of three excellent years, which produced the following players who have played at this level or higher: Jake Cooper, Niall Keown, Sean Long, Aaron Tshibola, Craig Tanner, Uche Ikpeazu (honourable mention to Shane Griffin played for the first team in a mid-season friendly against Oman); Liam Kelly, Aaron Kuhl, Jack Stacey, Tariqe Fosu, Rob Dickie, Dom Hyam, Conor Shaughnessy, Sammi Fridjonsson; and finally, Andy Rinomhota, Tennai Watson, and Andrija Novakovich (although of those last three, only Watson played any role in our youth achievements). We probably once again only really benefited from one player in each age group - Cooper, Kelly, and Rinomhota, with honourable mention for Tshibola - but we produced a heck of a lot of players who either went on to play at this level or probably would have done if not for terrible luck (Kuhl and Tanner and maybe Watson).

I would compare the "Pearce generation" and the "Kelly generation" to the Class of 96. Large bunch of players who all great up playing together. Obviously the Pearce generation had a big impact in this club and the Kelly generation mostly didn't. The current crop are more like the United players who have come through since then - a steady flow rather than a torrent. The age gap between Rino and Olise is bigger than the age gap between Rashford and Pogba.

As for future players? I quite like Nelson Abbey - but he plays in exactly the same position as Tom McIntyre. So does Jersiel Dorsett, who Mark Bowen was very keen on. We've got some tidy midfield players like Dejan Tetek, Oliver Pendlebury, and my personal favourite, Conor Lawless - but it's hard to see them getting chances any time soon, they're not fighters like Rino and Laurent. Perhaps in the Swift role. I think most people have heard of Thierry Nevers, who is close friends with Olise and could be a wide option. I like Melvin-Lambert's presence in the box but he's quite old fashioned, doesn't have much link play, and Paunovic clearly doesn't rate him. I've hedged quite a lot there, but aside from maybe Nevers there's nobody who clearly fills a gap in the first team squad. Again I should emphasise that while I used to know a lot about the Academy for various reasons, these days I only know as much as an interested fan could be expected to know, and with COVID that's not very much, so don't take my word for very much. I do love watching Abbey and Lawless play but I haven't seen enough of them lately to get a feel for how good they actually are.


Great post but wasn't it 2006/07 when we reached the FA Youth Cup QFs? I've looked back at that run before and thought what a team it was, though it was interesting to read on here that McCarthy was criticised for his kicking even back then! That team lost 1-0 to Liverpool, and I remember the match report on the official site saying we were unlucky to go out. Liverpool went on to win the cup, but apart from Jay Spearing i'm not sure how many of their players went on to play in the top 2 divisions. I certainly struggled to recognise others.

I may have been more into the Youth Cup in 2013/14 mainly through being able to watch the games on Youtube or LFC TV, and obviously we went further that year, but it's actually the 2006/07 team that has the wow factor for me with the benefit of hindsight given what the players went on to achieve.

Yep you’re right about the year.

There were some decent players in that Liverpool side - Stephen Darby had a respectable career before having to return with a neurodegenerative condition, and Jimmy Ryan and Robbie Threlfall knocked around in the lower leagues for a while. But our boys definitely made bigger names for themselves.

Chelsea get a lot of criticism for that decade where the only young player who seemed to break through was Carlton Cole, but Liverpool’s production line in that period was worse. Between Gerrard and Sterling, the best player they produced was literally Danny Guthrie.


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Re: 90s Man U vs 20's Royals.

by Forbury Lion » 21 Feb 2021 15:31

It'll be interesting to map the academy outputs to the who was running it, who the first team manager was, what league we were in etc, who the owners were

I think McDermott having worked at the academy and knowing that crop of players meant he knew they were good enough for the first team, plus things were done the old Reading way with no funds to buy players, until Anton turned up and we were able to sign Roberts. It's probably fair to say other managers have been chasing short term success and with money available have gone out spending with the academy players only there to be sold on or cover in emergencies.

If a team is turning academy players into first team players regularly, then that's going to give our academy an edge when they try to recruit players, maybe not over the big premier league teams, but certainly over other championship teams.

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