MATCHWATCH : Rotherham united (a)

335 posts
AthleticoSpizz
Hob Nob Legend
Posts: 23971
Joined: 15 Apr 2004 19:49
Location: A Hicks Hoof from Coley Park

Re: MATCHWATCH : Rotherham united (a)

by AthleticoSpizz » 27 Feb 2021 21:39

Snowflake Royal
Hound
Mid Sussex Royal
Have you seen any of the other top sides this season? In particular Swansea and Norwich. Unless you are Man City all promoted sides have at least half a dozen games where they win ugly


Just to note that Norwich and Bournemouth have also just beat Rotherham 1-0, and Cardiff also 2-1. And if I remember rightly Rotherham had a goal chalked off against Norwich that should have been given

It's not the result, or even really the performance I have an issue with. It's the management. Which is the same management that saw us drop silly points against Stoke, Millwall and oxf*rd Wycombe Wanderers.
Yet still has us in the top six

Yeah...I know :roll:

User avatar
royalp-we
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 2242
Joined: 30 Sep 2010 11:04

Re: MATCHWATCH : Rotherham united (a)

by royalp-we » 27 Feb 2021 22:06

CountryRoyal
royalp-we I actually like that Pauno has been consistent with team selections and the way he sets the team up. History has shown its the only way to build a decent side; and is a key reason why we are in the playoffs.

I have a little chuckle when I see fans posting that we should change up the formation or drop our 20+ goal striker.

We are going through a sticky patch. We did what we needed to today and the defence were solid. All the players involved have been a part of beating some of the best sides in the division in the way we set up. The form will return; but we shouldn’t throw away what has been a winning formula for us this season.


I think the issue is, is that for the most part the sticky patch seems almost entirely self-made. We haven’t been particularly unlucky, we haven’t had loads of outrageous decisions against us. We’ve made what appear to be several managerial tactical mistakes which didn’t need to be made.

So at what point do you consider trying something different up top? Even if it’s to bring Joao on from the bench for a game? What happens if he doesn’t score for the rest of the season? Hypothetically do you persist because “well he’s already scored 20 goals?”

It does seem that current predicament is often ignored or justified by unrelated historical context. Not being particularly bothered about changing us being shit, because in the past we were once good, is a lame argument.

Am I happy that we won today’? Of course. Am I delighted where we are in the table? Yes absolutely. Did I think we would be here at the start of the season? No, I don’t think anyone realistically could have.

Does that mean that given all of this we shouldn’t question or be disappointed with a current situation, and on current trend, its possible consequences in the future? I don’t think so.

When we went through the bad patch after our great start it wasn’t that bad because we could point to injuries to blame and were often still playing quite well.

Like I said, I feel that in this spell of poor performances and results it has largely been down to our own doing, and so far haven’t shown too many signs of rectifying those mistakes.

Imho.


Oh you’re right the problems in recent fixtures have been entirely self made. I guess the question to ask is what’s changed?

We haven’t all of a sudden become a bad team with no direction. We’ve played teams battling for survival. The system served has us well, it’s not historical context as we’ve played this system all season and done very well. Only 3/4 weeks ago we beat Bournemouth relatively comfortably and many were saying we were shoe-ins for autos. We’ve had a couple of other decent performances since then too.

Admittedly I’m a glass half full kind of mindset. It’s not that I’m not bothered about us being shit or below par in a few fixtures; it’s more a point that I’d be majorly disappointed if we moved away from a system and the players that have got us to this position at such a critical point in the season.

That’s a monumental risk which I’m glad Pauno isn’t taking and he’s obviously got faith that they will get back to a previous level of performance which served us well at the start but also just a few weeks back.

User avatar
Snowflake Royal
Hob Nob Legend
Posts: 39815
Joined: 20 Jun 2017 17:51

Re: MATCHWATCH : Rotherham united (a)

by Snowflake Royal » 27 Feb 2021 22:52

AthleticoSpizz
Snowflake Royal
Hound
Just to note that Norwich and Bournemouth have also just beat Rotherham 1-0, and Cardiff also 2-1. And if I remember rightly Rotherham had a goal chalked off against Norwich that should have been given

It's not the result, or even really the performance I have an issue with. It's the management. Which is the same management that saw us drop silly points against Stoke, Millwall and oxf*rd Wycombe Wanderers.
Yet still has us in the top six

Yeah...I know :roll:

Funnily enough, you'll notice I wasn't complaining about the management a month or so ago, because Pauno wasn't failing to make substitutions or playing Rinomhota stupidly out of position.

Oh well, he was doing a really good job, so we should all just forget about any problems right now.

AthleticoSpizz
Hob Nob Legend
Posts: 23971
Joined: 15 Apr 2004 19:49
Location: A Hicks Hoof from Coley Park

Re: MATCHWATCH : Rotherham united (a)

by AthleticoSpizz » 27 Feb 2021 22:54

Problems?

Perfectly timed and used substitutions today?

Still in a better place despite it all?

User avatar
Snowflake Royal
Hob Nob Legend
Posts: 39815
Joined: 20 Jun 2017 17:51

Re: MATCHWATCH : Rotherham united (a)

by Snowflake Royal » 27 Feb 2021 23:05

royalp-we
CountryRoyal
royalp-we I actually like that Pauno has been consistent with team selections and the way he sets the team up. History has shown its the only way to build a decent side; and is a key reason why we are in the playoffs.

I have a little chuckle when I see fans posting that we should change up the formation or drop our 20+ goal striker.

We are going through a sticky patch. We did what we needed to today and the defence were solid. All the players involved have been a part of beating some of the best sides in the division in the way we set up. The form will return; but we shouldn’t throw away what has been a winning formula for us this season.


I think the issue is, is that for the most part the sticky patch seems almost entirely self-made. We haven’t been particularly unlucky, we haven’t had loads of outrageous decisions against us. We’ve made what appear to be several managerial tactical mistakes which didn’t need to be made.

So at what point do you consider trying something different up top? Even if it’s to bring Joao on from the bench for a game? What happens if he doesn’t score for the rest of the season? Hypothetically do you persist because “well he’s already scored 20 goals?”

It does seem that current predicament is often ignored or justified by unrelated historical context. Not being particularly bothered about changing us being shit, because in the past we were once good, is a lame argument.

Am I happy that we won today’? Of course. Am I delighted where we are in the table? Yes absolutely. Did I think we would be here at the start of the season? No, I don’t think anyone realistically could have.

Does that mean that given all of this we shouldn’t question or be disappointed with a current situation, and on current trend, its possible consequences in the future? I don’t think so.

When we went through the bad patch after our great start it wasn’t that bad because we could point to injuries to blame and were often still playing quite well.

Like I said, I feel that in this spell of poor performances and results it has largely been down to our own doing, and so far haven’t shown too many signs of rectifying those mistakes.

Imho.


Oh you’re right the problems in recent fixtures have been entirely self made. I guess the question to ask is what’s changed?

We haven’t all of a sudden become a bad team with no direction. We’ve played teams battling for survival. The system served has us well, it’s not historical context as we’ve played this system all season and done very well. Only 3/4 weeks ago we beat Bournemouth relatively comfortably and many were saying we were shoe-ins for autos. We’ve had a couple of other decent performances since then too.

Admittedly I’m a glass half full kind of mindset. It’s not that I’m not bothered about us being shit or below par in a few fixtures; it’s more a point that I’d be majorly disappointed if we moved away from a system and the players that have got us to this position at such a critical point in the season.

That’s a monumental risk which I’m glad Pauno isn’t taking and he’s obviously got faith that they will get back to a previous level of performance which served us well at the start but also just a few weeks back.

For the record, I agree with a lot of what CR is saying, but I'm also not someone who is demanding we change formation as if that's easy and a simple solution to any problem.

But what I do want to see is players picked in suitable positions. We did perfectly well early on in the season with Laurent and Rino paired and Semedo forward. I can't stand Aluko, but he's a viable option instead of Semedo if Pauno has decided he can't play forward (after using him there for months). Then theres Tetek. Looked decent in some cameos. Not suggesting he starts, but there's no reason to be so reluctant to make a substitution and have it like for like.

It looks to me like Pauno has seen Rino's running, and decided he can do more damage further forward, but has failed to assess his ability to finish or play someone in. It's like he made that substitution to bring off Holmes and is now scared of making attacking changes until far too late for fear of conceding a couple of quick goals. He's not using his squad effectively. He's brought Moore in, and shifted McIntyre out to LB when McIntyre had been playing exceptionally well at CB, then dropped him.

I'm not a huge fan of Puscas, but you cannot solely rely on Joao for goals. We need an alternative. And that alternative needs to get match sharp. He does that by playing 20 minutes here, 30 minutes there. Maybe starting a mid-week game to give a break. Not 4 mins, or 11 or 12.

There's a fair amount of worrying judgement going on here. And we have seen a manager come in and show promise for six months only to fall apart far too many times. We need Pauno to get his head back in the game and start making better decisions. I mean, I guess we don't need it. Because anything at this point is still a moderately successful season. And I'm certainly not desperate to go up. THere's no way anyone should be suggesting he should go. But there's nothing wrong with being unhappy with his recent performance and wanting that to improve.

I'd be much happier if I'd thought this was a win that seemed to push us back in the right direction. But for me it was inspite of the same problems, not fixing them. Maybe Rino is out and maybe that will be the solution (it's certainly not his fault, but maybe it will force Pauno's hand). I hope so, but I want Pauno to make more sensible decisions - they certainly don't have to be what I'd do, but they should be sound - not be forced into them. Because what happens when he's no longer forced.


User avatar
Snowflake Royal
Hob Nob Legend
Posts: 39815
Joined: 20 Jun 2017 17:51

Re: MATCHWATCH : Rotherham united (a)

by Snowflake Royal » 27 Feb 2021 23:05

AthleticoSpizz Problems?

Perfectly timed and used substitutions today?

Still in a better place despite it all?

Those subs were anything but perfectly timed and used.

AthleticoSpizz
Hob Nob Legend
Posts: 23971
Joined: 15 Apr 2004 19:49
Location: A Hicks Hoof from Coley Park

Re: MATCHWATCH : Rotherham united (a)

by AthleticoSpizz » 27 Feb 2021 23:08

Your opinion...not mine

Millsy
Hob Nob Super-Addict
Posts: 10054
Joined: 16 Jul 2004 18:36
Location: Running from The Left

Re: MATCHWATCH : Rotherham united (a)

by Millsy » 27 Feb 2021 23:56

There are two real possibilities here:

1) Pauno is some sort of all round genius who fixed relegation threatened side and lifted us to grant heights and so whatever happens we trust in him and praise him endlessly because 5th is so much better than ever before

2) Pauno has some great attributes like motivating youngsters, which combined with a bit of luck and honeymoon period got us to where we probably ought to be given the players we have, and the investment we’ve made lately, but really doesn’t have that much more to him to sustain decent form. He is outdone tactically by the likes of Colin, and many other teams who seem to know what to do too easily to make it hard for us. We may be 5th but we’ve plummeted from being 7 points clear at the top to being a whisker away from dropping out the playoff spots.

I’m not saying I want this, but I honestly would not be surprised if we didn’t make the playoffs and if that were to happen I wouldn’t at all be surprised if he got the boot.

I suspect we will though, and he will deservedly stay and do well for us next season when we lose at Wembley again.

Notts Royal
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 1018
Joined: 11 Feb 2018 00:07

Re: MATCHWATCH : Rotherham united (a)

by Notts Royal » 27 Feb 2021 23:56

Zip That last few minutes was horrible but we just about held on. Shame if Rino is out but Araruna should be back along with Yaks soon


Oh brilliant, Araruna. Well known for being as consistent & reliable as Rino :roll:

The issue for me is, if is is out for any time, it could’ve been avoided but rotating him with Semedo. Play Aluko further forward; no he’s not a better player than Semedo but would’ve enabled a better balance to the team & more rotation between Rino, Laurent & Semedo


User avatar
Zip
Hob Nob Legend
Posts: 22408
Joined: 30 Dec 2017 16:39

Re: MATCHWATCH : Rotherham united (a)

by Zip » 28 Feb 2021 00:00

Notts Royal
Zip That last few minutes was horrible but we just about held on. Shame if Rino is out but Araruna should be back along with Yaks soon


Oh brilliant, Araruna. Well known for being as consistent & reliable as Rino :roll:

The issue for me is, if is is out for any time, it could’ve been avoided but rotating him with Semedo. Play Aluko further forward; no he’s not a better player than Semedo but would’ve enabled a better balance to the team & more rotation between Rino, Laurent & Semedo


Christ give Araruna a chance. He played well at the start of the season. He is certainly an option if Rino is out for a while.

User avatar
genome
Hob Nob Legend
Posts: 25232
Joined: 08 Jul 2012 13:29
Location: Universe

Re: MATCHWATCH : Rotherham united (a)

by genome » 28 Feb 2021 00:41

I forgot he existed tbh :lol:

URZZZZ
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 7301
Joined: 20 Apr 2013 18:30

Re: MATCHWATCH : Rotherham united (a)

by URZZZZ » 28 Feb 2021 01:00

Zip
Notts Royal
Zip That last few minutes was horrible but we just about held on. Shame if Rino is out but Araruna should be back along with Yaks soon


Oh brilliant, Araruna. Well known for being as consistent & reliable as Rino :roll:

The issue for me is, if is is out for any time, it could’ve been avoided but rotating him with Semedo. Play Aluko further forward; no he’s not a better player than Semedo but would’ve enabled a better balance to the team & more rotation between Rino, Laurent & Semedo


Christ give Araruna a chance. He played well at the start of the season. He is certainly an option if Rino is out for a while.


Played well at RB though - difficult to judge his capabilities at CM if he’s only played one game there for us in over twelve months!

URZZZZ
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 7301
Joined: 20 Apr 2013 18:30

Re: MATCHWATCH : Rotherham united (a)

by URZZZZ » 28 Feb 2021 01:23

Snowflake Royal
Zip
Hound Wonder how many games Swansea have unconvincingly scraped a 1-0, Norwich got a ‘lucky’ win or Watford have bored the shit out of everyone and scored a 1-0 win with a pen etc

It’s what you need to do tbh, esp with players not on top form

We were berating them for losing out to Millwall in a similar game and not holding on to something against Brentford - I’m more than happy tbh


Yeah so am I. It was an ugly win. Who cares?

Me. It doesn't show signs of any lessons being learnt or significant improvements.


Lessons being learnt from what? We last dropped points from a winning position against Millwall where the general consensus was that his subs were too “attacking”, I.e bringing off a defensive “RB” for a more attacking one. Surely, in terms of bringing on more defensive players off the bench this time and us holding on, it worked to an extent?

Result was the main thing anyway. With wins comes momentum , which brings about better decisions on/off the pitch by both the team and the staff. Our team as a whole didn’t win anywhere near enough games 1-0 for a long period so it’s a pleasing change we can grind out these victories that have been so lacking for so long and are indicative of a promotion winning team

Can’t afford to waste this win though over the next few games


Royals and Racers
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 4799
Joined: 05 Jan 2012 16:48

Re: MATCHWATCH : Rotherham united (a)

by Royals and Racers » 28 Feb 2021 08:23

Not sure if it`s been mentioned before, but looking at the Quest highlights of the goal we could have got away with one because on a freeze frame he looks just offside when Richards crossed the ball.

Nameless
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 8851
Joined: 23 Aug 2013 12:25

Re: MATCHWATCH : Rotherham united (a)

by Nameless » 28 Feb 2021 08:37

Royals and Racers Not sure if it`s been mentioned before, but looking at the Quest highlights of the goal we could have got away with one because on a freeze frame he looks just offside when Richards crossed the ball.


A freeze frame showing someone ‘just’ offside is IMHO far from ‘getting away with one’. Decisions should be made in real time, by eye. The game is fast descending into farce because people think it is a suitable sport to break down to millimetres and fractions of seconds.

Royals and Racers
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 4799
Joined: 05 Jan 2012 16:48

Re: MATCHWATCH : Rotherham united (a)

by Royals and Racers » 28 Feb 2021 08:51

Nameless
Royals and Racers Not sure if it`s been mentioned before, but looking at the Quest highlights of the goal we could have got away with one because on a freeze frame he looks just offside when Richards crossed the ball.


A freeze frame showing someone ‘just’ offside is IMHO far from ‘getting away with one’. Decisions should be made in real time, by eye. The game is fast descending into farce because people think it is a suitable sport to break down to millimetres and fractions of seconds.

What !!!! it shows the assistant wasn`t doing his job properly. We have had others that have gone against us, so it does even out over time but Morrison was offside.

User avatar
Zip
Hob Nob Legend
Posts: 22408
Joined: 30 Dec 2017 16:39

Re: MATCHWATCH : Rotherham united (a)

by Zip » 28 Feb 2021 09:15

URZZZZ
Snowflake Royal
Zip
Yeah so am I. It was an ugly win. Who cares?

Me. It doesn't show signs of any lessons being learnt or significant improvements.


Lessons being learnt from what? We last dropped points from a winning position against Millwall where the general consensus was that his subs were too “attacking”, I.e bringing off a defensive “RB” for a more attacking one. Surely, in terms of bringing on more defensive players off the bench this time and us holding on, it worked to an extent?

Result was the main thing anyway. With wins comes momentum , which brings about better decisions on/off the pitch by both the team and the staff. Our team as a whole didn’t win anywhere near enough games 1-0 for a long period so it’s a pleasing change we can grind out these victories that have been so lacking for so long and are indicative of a promotion winning team

Can’t afford to waste this win though over the next few games


Apart from not bringing on Puscas for Joao the subs were better yesterday. TMac was excellent when he came on and was very unlucky to be dropped in the first place.
Pauno is still very reluctant to make changes when things are not going well though.

User avatar
royalp-we
Hob Nob Regular
Posts: 2242
Joined: 30 Sep 2010 11:04

Re: MATCHWATCH : Rotherham united (a)

by royalp-we » 28 Feb 2021 09:18

Snowflake Royal
royalp-we
CountryRoyal
I think the issue is, is that for the most part the sticky patch seems almost entirely self-made. We haven’t been particularly unlucky, we haven’t had loads of outrageous decisions against us. We’ve made what appear to be several managerial tactical mistakes which didn’t need to be made.

So at what point do you consider trying something different up top? Even if it’s to bring Joao on from the bench for a game? What happens if he doesn’t score for the rest of the season? Hypothetically do you persist because “well he’s already scored 20 goals?”

It does seem that current predicament is often ignored or justified by unrelated historical context. Not being particularly bothered about changing us being shit, because in the past we were once good, is a lame argument.

Am I happy that we won today’? Of course. Am I delighted where we are in the table? Yes absolutely. Did I think we would be here at the start of the season? No, I don’t think anyone realistically could have.

Does that mean that given all of this we shouldn’t question or be disappointed with a current situation, and on current trend, its possible consequences in the future? I don’t think so.

When we went through the bad patch after our great start it wasn’t that bad because we could point to injuries to blame and were often still playing quite well.

Like I said, I feel that in this spell of poor performances and results it has largely been down to our own doing, and so far haven’t shown too many signs of rectifying those mistakes.

Imho.


Oh you’re right the problems in recent fixtures have been entirely self made. I guess the question to ask is what’s changed?

We haven’t all of a sudden become a bad team with no direction. We’ve played teams battling for survival. The system served has us well, it’s not historical context as we’ve played this system all season and done very well. Only 3/4 weeks ago we beat Bournemouth relatively comfortably and many were saying we were shoe-ins for autos. We’ve had a couple of other decent performances since then too.

Admittedly I’m a glass half full kind of mindset. It’s not that I’m not bothered about us being shit or below par in a few fixtures; it’s more a point that I’d be majorly disappointed if we moved away from a system and the players that have got us to this position at such a critical point in the season.

That’s a monumental risk which I’m glad Pauno isn’t taking and he’s obviously got faith that they will get back to a previous level of performance which served us well at the start but also just a few weeks back.

For the record, I agree with a lot of what CR is saying, but I'm also not someone who is demanding we change formation as if that's easy and a simple solution to any problem.

But what I do want to see is players picked in suitable positions. We did perfectly well early on in the season with Laurent and Rino paired and Semedo forward. I can't stand Aluko, but he's a viable option instead of Semedo if Pauno has decided he can't play forward (after using him there for months). Then theres Tetek. Looked decent in some cameos. Not suggesting he starts, but there's no reason to be so reluctant to make a substitution and have it like for like.

It looks to me like Pauno has seen Rino's running, and decided he can do more damage further forward, but has failed to assess his ability to finish or play someone in. It's like he made that substitution to bring off Holmes and is now scared of making attacking changes until far too late for fear of conceding a couple of quick goals. He's not using his squad effectively. He's brought Moore in, and shifted McIntyre out to LB when McIntyre had been playing exceptionally well at CB, then dropped him.

I'm not a huge fan of Puscas, but you cannot solely rely on Joao for goals. We need an alternative. And that alternative needs to get match sharp. He does that by playing 20 minutes here, 30 minutes there. Maybe starting a mid-week game to give a break. Not 4 mins, or 11 or 12.

There's a fair amount of worrying judgement going on here. And we have seen a manager come in and show promise for six months only to fall apart far too many times. We need Pauno to get his head back in the game and start making better decisions. I mean, I guess we don't need it. Because anything at this point is still a moderately successful season. And I'm certainly not desperate to go up. THere's no way anyone should be suggesting he should go. But there's nothing wrong with being unhappy with his recent performance and wanting that to improve.

I'd be much happier if I'd thought this was a win that seemed to push us back in the right direction. But for me it was inspite of the same problems, not fixing them. Maybe Rino is out and maybe that will be the solution (it's certainly not his fault, but maybe it will force Pauno's hand). I hope so, but I want Pauno to make more sensible decisions - they certainly don't have to be what I'd do, but they should be sound - not be forced into them. Because what happens when he's no longer forced.


All good points Ian and I agree the Rino / Semedo situation is a weird one. Everyone can see where they are best suited; maybe Rino has been knocking on the managers door asking to be played further forward, who knows?! Regardless I’d say that Olise would be best in that 10 role just behind Joao anyway. His ability to play between the lines with freedom, glide past players or play in Joao is wasted being shunted wide on the RW, Ejaria on the left and then Aluko or Esteves or Yiadom on the right would all be good shouts instead imo.

Joao misfiring is weird but his form will return. When he plays well, we play well. Need to get Puscas up to speed as cover ASAP like you say.

Big game at home on Tuesday. I don’t think he’ll change things too much. Then it’s just a case of whether we see the Reading that beat Bournemouth / Watford at the Madejski or slumped to defeats against Millwall, Brum and Boro. If we want the playoffs, at the minimum we need results at home.
Last edited by royalp-we on 28 Feb 2021 10:13, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Zip
Hob Nob Legend
Posts: 22408
Joined: 30 Dec 2017 16:39

Re: MATCHWATCH : Rotherham united (a)

by Zip » 28 Feb 2021 09:25

Royals and Racers
Nameless
Royals and Racers Not sure if it`s been mentioned before, but looking at the Quest highlights of the goal we could have got away with one because on a freeze frame he looks just offside when Richards crossed the ball.


A freeze frame showing someone ‘just’ offside is IMHO far from ‘getting away with one’. Decisions should be made in real time, by eye. The game is fast descending into farce because people think it is a suitable sport to break down to millimetres and fractions of seconds.

What !!!! it shows the assistant wasn`t doing his job properly. We have had others that have gone against us, so it does even out over time but Morrison was offside.


100% agreed. If he’s offside by small margins he is still offside. Junior is very sharp on such things and called it straight away. I was surprised the Rotherham commentary team didn’t question it.

SCIAG
Hob Nob Addict
Posts: 6372
Joined: 17 Jun 2008 17:43
Location: Liburd for England

Re: MATCHWATCH : Rotherham united (a)

by SCIAG » 28 Feb 2021 09:40

Was the exceptional goal that Rotherham scored at the start of the second half offside? It looked good to me, but the angle wasn’t great.

335 posts

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot], Gunny Fishcake, RG30 and 204 guests

It is currently 18 Apr 2024 18:08