Bowen v. Paunović

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Re: Bowen v. Paunović

by Zip » 16 Apr 2021 17:27

Snowflake Royal
Stranded Isn't the truth really somewhere in between. Under Gomes we were not only in a relegation battle but pretty much nailed on to go down.

Once Bowen got us going, it never "felt" as if we were ever in danger even if a downturn in form put us on the fringes of the battle again, probably proven out by the fact we only picked up 8 points in the final 9 games and still finished a comfortable 8 points ahead of the bottom 3 and that following the 3-0 win over Derby we didn't drop below 16th (or above 13th) in the entire second half of the season.

So even with just a 5pt gap, sitting 16th will never feel like you are in danger as there are so many clubs between you and the drop.

This. Which is exactly the point. Gomes went early. Bowen showed we weren't in serious danger.

Not a relegation threatened season once Gomes went.



Yep

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Re: Bowen v. Paunović

by Winston Biscuit » 16 Apr 2021 19:07

Paunović has better hair and a sexier name

2-0

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Re: Bowen v. Paunović

by Lower West » 16 Apr 2021 19:50

Zip
Ascotexgunner Why Hound why?

Why are you even asking? Bowen should have been fired when the final whistle was blown against Swansea.
Utter disgrace and shambles at the end of the season. Pleased he didn't remain director of football as well. To me he was part of our problem and failures. We have started this season with new blood in charge and next season new blood on the pitch hopefully.


Bowen did a perfectly good job. His overall record was ok. He also brought Laurent to the club.


and Morrison. Both were free transfers.

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Re: Bowen v. Paunović

by Hound » 16 Apr 2021 20:04

MM came in under Gomes

Though the suspicion was he had very little to do with it. Maybe that was Bowen behind the scenes somewhere (was he DOF then?)

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Re: Bowen v. Paunović

by Snowflake Royal » 17 Apr 2021 09:25

Hound MM came in under Gomes

Though the suspicion was he had very little to do with it. Maybe that was Bowen behind the scenes somewhere (was he DOF then?)

Widely discussed at the time that MM turned up and Gomes knew nothing about him.


Very much a Bowen signing.


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Re: Bowen v. Paunović

by WestYorksRoyal » 17 Apr 2021 09:55

Bowen did a great job, but I never seriously thought he would have us fighting at the top of the table. I could see it happening under Pauno. Just needs a bit more tactical awareness and better use of subs, which may improve once he has better options on the bench than Semedo, Aluko and Baldock (his assist last night notwithstanding).

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Re: Bowen v. Paunović

by Snowflake Royal » 17 Apr 2021 10:10

WestYorksRoyal Bowen did a great job, but I never seriously thought he would have us fighting at the top of the table. I could see it happening under Pauno. Just needs a bit more tactical awareness and better use of subs, which may improve once he has better options on the bench than Semedo, Aluko and Baldock (his assist last night notwithstanding).


The really good thing about this season, is we've been challenging for the top six pretty much all the way, and that's in Paunovic's first season in charge. His first season in the Championship. Without having had the opportunity to make many of his own signings. And there's been plenty of areas for improvement and learning points.

The only down side is we don't yet know how much of the success was Paunovic, and how much was the set up by Bowen and whether Paunovic can take that set up further.

I thought Vision was dead wrong in his belief that the owners sacked managers as soon as they lost faith in them getting us promoted, rather than when they became convinced the risk or relegation was too high. We'll potentially see which is more accurate over the next six months. If the owners pull the trigger when they lose faith in promotion, then Paunovic could well go on Monday. Or before next season. Or in the first few months if we don't start well. If it's as I think and about threat of relegation, he's absolutely safe for up to another season and a half, barring absolutely awful descent back into relegation battles

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Re: Bowen v. Paunović

by Zip » 17 Apr 2021 11:32

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WestYorksRoyal Bowen did a great job, but I never seriously thought he would have us fighting at the top of the table. I could see it happening under Pauno. Just needs a bit more tactical awareness and better use of subs, which may improve once he has better options on the bench than Semedo, Aluko and Baldock (his assist last night notwithstanding).


The really good thing about this season, is we've been challenging for the top six pretty much all the way, and that's in Paunovic's first season in charge. His first season in the Championship. Without having had the opportunity to make many of his own signings. And there's been plenty of areas for improvement and learning points.

The only down side is we don't yet know how much of the success was Paunovic, and how much was the set up by Bowen and whether Paunovic can take that set up further.

I thought Vision was dead wrong in his belief that the owners sacked managers as soon as they lost faith in them getting us promoted, rather than when they became convinced the risk or relegation was too high. We'll potentially see which is more accurate over the next six months. If the owners pull the trigger when they lose faith in promotion, then Paunovic could well go on Monday. Or before next season. Or in the first few months if we don't start well. If it's as I think and about threat of relegation, he's absolutely safe for up to another season and a half, barring absolutely awful descent back into relegation battles


It’s difficult to know what our owners want. I suspect they will be far from happy unless we become serial challengers for promotion to the top flight. I can’t see what’s in it for them racking up huge debts bobbing around in the Championship. However it’s asking one heck of a lot for any manager to win promotion when we are going to be so restricted in the transfer market.

As always the summer will tell us where we are heading. I would expect a transfer embargo again and the sale of Olise. Not sure anyone else will go but at least Baldock and Aluko’s wages will be off the books. Perhaps McNulty’s too.
So we will need to bring in free signings and hopefully use the loan market more effectively.

Fingers crossed we don’t get a points deduction but if we do it’s all about trying to stay up next season.

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Re: Bowen v. Paunović

by Hound » 17 Apr 2021 13:17

If there’s points deductions to be handed out can we just take it this season please?


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Re: Bowen v. Paunović

by KC Royal » 17 Apr 2021 13:59

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We didn't go higher than 18th until the middle of December, and after we beat Fulham on New Year's Day we subsequently won just one of our next ten. With 11 games to go we were five points outside of the relegation zone. Let's not rewrite history. Last season was not 'comfortable' by any means.

Prior to lockdown, we'd basically secured our status all but mathematically. We then came back and performed badly, unsurprisingly for a team with very little to play for in those circumstances.

We were only so low for so long thanks to the absolutely appalling start made by Gomes.

We were comfortable under Bowen last season.

Undoubtedly the squad is now better, and Pauno has got more out of mostly the same players. But the gulf is not that big.

Bowen's record with Joao in the side is pretty impressive. Joao has made a huge difference. On form we're top 4, missing or off form we're top 10


Yep and in this respect Bowen was unlucky that Joao was injured in the Fulham game because has he stayed fit we were looking like we might really push on.


Interesting point about Joao. Gooding has spoken about Joao's importance all season, and saying we'd have made the top 6 last season had he not got injured, so earlier in the season I looked at our record when he played last season. Had he stayed fit we wouldn't have made the top 6 going by PPG (though IIRC we wouldn't have been far away). Under Bowen alone IIRC we averaged 2 points a game.

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Re: Bowen v. Paunović

by Snowflake Royal » 17 Apr 2021 14:25

Whilst obviously no one wishes an injury anyone. Joao's may have come at a good time.

He's struggling badly with his form and has been for a while. For me it's probably more of a mental issue. I think he may have got a bit carried away with his and our early season form. And whilst I don't subscribe to the nasty vitriol aimed in his direction. I think he may not be working as hard as he was to make killer runs etc. And I think his touch has got a little lazier. And the shooting is a monkey on his back.

Some time away injured, and the effort required to recuperate from it may just be exactly what he needs to get him going in the right direction again.

And in the meantime, Puscas gets his chance. I think Joao was rushed back a little quickly from his benching, and Puscas has earnt a little more faith than being dropped after just a couple of games to go back to Joao, Joao should have had to really re-earn his place over the course of 4/5 games IMO.

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Re: Bowen v. Paunović

by Zip » 17 Apr 2021 16:52

Snowflake Royal Whilst obviously no one wishes an injury anyone. Joao's may have come at a good time.

He's struggling badly with his form and has been for a while. For me it's probably more of a mental issue. I think he may have got a bit carried away with his and our early season form. And whilst I don't subscribe to the nasty vitriol aimed in his direction. I think he may not be working as hard as he was to make killer runs etc. And I think his touch has got a little lazier. And the shooting is a monkey on his back.

Some time away injured, and the effort required to recuperate from it may just be exactly what he needs to get him going in the right direction again.

And in the meantime, Puscas gets his chance. I think Joao was rushed back a little quickly from his benching, and Puscas has earnt a little more faith than being dropped after just a couple of games to go back to Joao, Joao should have had to really re-earn his place over the course of 4/5 games IMO.


It’s interesting there was a muted response on here to his injury last night. A few months we would all have seen this as a big blow. The shame in all of this is that he won’t hit 20 League goals now. I would like to have seen him achieve that.

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Re: Bowen v. Paunović

by Mid Sussex Royal » 17 Apr 2021 19:09

On Twitter apparently Dellor is now jumping on the "lets discount the first 8 games" bandwagon and saying Bowen has an identical record just about. Well, how about discounting Bowen's 4 wins at Christmas - we' d have been in relegation trouble without those 12 points.


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Re: Bowen v. Paunović

by WestYorksRoyal » 17 Apr 2021 19:30

I'm sick of people discounting those first 8 games. They happened when he had joined the club in chaotic circumstances and he deserves so much credit. What's Coppell's record in 05/06 like if we choose to discount the 33 games unbeaten?

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Re: Bowen v. Paunović

by windermereROYAL » 17 Apr 2021 19:42

Mid Sussex Royal On Twitter apparently Dellor is now jumping on the "lets discount the first 8 games" bandwagon and saying Bowen has an identical record just about. Well, how about discounting Bowen's 4 wins at Christmas - we' d have been in relegation trouble without those 12 points.


To be fair who takes anything that dickhead says seriously?

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Re: Bowen v. Paunović

by Stranded » 17 Apr 2021 20:43

Mid Sussex Royal On Twitter apparently Dellor is now jumping on the "lets discount the first 8 games" bandwagon and saying Bowen has an identical record just about. Well, how about discounting Bowen's 4 wins at Christmas - we' d have been in relegation trouble without those 12 points.


Man whose job it is to stir conversation about RFC, in stirring conversation about RFC shocker.

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Re: Bowen v. Paunović

by Notts Royal » 17 Apr 2021 21:19

WestYorksRoyal I'm sick of people discounting those first 8 games. They happened when he had joined the club in chaotic circumstances and he deserves so much credit. What's Coppell's record in 05/06 like if we choose to discount the 33 games unbeaten?


8 games is a bit of a difference to 33 don’t you think? It’s a whole 75% less in fact.

Personally I agree in that those 8 games shouldn’t be discounted...why are they any less relevant to the past 8 games?

What the jury is still firmly out on is Paunovic’s substitutions...and to a certain degree, his tactics. It was pleasing to seen him dabble in the diamond a month or so back, but generally he hasn’t worked out a Plan b.

And no one will ever know how Bowen would have fared this season. So it’s a bit of a pointless debate really

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Re: Bowen v. Paunović

by CountryRoyal » 17 Apr 2021 21:54

The thing about the first 8 games is that we actually didn’t play particularly well in a lot of them.

Terrible performance against Wycombe, one shot on target and fortunate to not concede late on.

Labouring performance against Rotherham, created little until later stages. 3-0 was flattering.

Pretty solid but uninspiring performance for a draw against Boro, little creativity, 1 shot on target and lucky to not lose to an incorrectly disallowed goal.

Struggled against Barnsley’s press, very much second best and needed a red card for us to eventually take the lead. Could only manage a 2-0 even after Barnsley played the last 25 minutes with 9 men.

Derby was a comfortable performance but everyone agreed they posed absolutely no challenge yet still. 3 shots on target, 2 goals.

Cardiff - decent performance, again clinical, fairly unlucky to concede iirc.

Watford - strong performance, could have conceded on several occasions early on. Once again, scored with our only shot on target and that was heavily deflected.

Blackburn - good performance imho.

——————————

We played a lot better in games where we’ve lost. No one should discount the games, it would be nonsensical, but let’s not pretend we were world beaters. We got away with a lot and we’re extremely clinical - something well reported with all the xG tossers spaffing themselves about how we couldn’t sustain it. Well they were right, we couldn’t.

On a performance basis I think we’ve been pretty consistently inconsistent throughout most of the season, not helped by injuries to key players, lack of squad depth, lack of January recruitment and a manager who doesn’t like to rotate players or even trust the fringe players - when at times he really should have.

We have some really quality individual players, a lot of them really young which is another reason for the inconsistency. As a whole though we’ve put in some good displays, and some really oxf*rd shit displays. From individual errors up front, at the back, and in the dug out there have been several really big moments which have also let us down.

Ultimately, we are where we deserve. We aren’t really good enough and despite sporadic glimpses of real quality, we never really were.

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Re: Bowen v. Paunović

by Lower West » 17 Apr 2021 23:55

Hound MM came in under Gomes

Though the suspicion was he had very little to do with it. Maybe that was Bowen behind the scenes somewhere (was he DOF then?)


MM credits Bowen with attracting him to the club.

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Re: Bowen v. Paunović

by Lower West » 17 Apr 2021 23:56

Mid Sussex Royal On Twitter apparently Dellor is now jumping on the "lets discount the first 8 games" bandwagon and saying Bowen has an identical record just about. Well, how about discounting Bowen's 4 wins at Christmas - we' d have been in relegation trouble without those 12 points.


Didn't the run end when Joao disappeared injured for several months.

Must say that Pauno's post match wasn't convincing last night. He's become a Stam. Appears to have watched a different game to everybody else.

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