If it started tomorrow.

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Re: If it started tomorrow.

by Notts Royal » 22 Jul 2021 11:22

Hound I'm not panicking by any means yet

The spine is very strong - Rafael - Moore/Morrison/McIntyre - Rino/Laurent/Swift - Puscas/Joao

We need more productive loans than last year though. First team regulars rather than fill ins. We seem to have a fairly decent network but just didnt quite get the right type of player in last season.

The trialists would do a job for us I think if they were cheap. Bolasie would be nice. Tetek and Azeez look ready to play to me from the U23.


Exactly. Now if we had a weak spine, I’d be less confident of avoiding a relegation scrap.

We need 2 ‘wide’ (not wingers for Ian!) options, a left back, a bit more cover in central mid.

As you say, the quality of the loans need to be better and we need to get less injury-prone players in the squad.

Out of the options, my guess would be Moore, Rafael & Puscas as the most likely players to depart. If it’s the latter, we’d need to replace and get another striker in.

It’s not panic stations until the transfer windows closes and we fail to bring anyone in. There’s been plenty of seasons where we’ve signed players very late on in the window, 11-12 being a good example of that

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Re: If it started tomorrow.

by Vision » 22 Jul 2021 11:52

I think with loan players you've got to be clear about what they're here to provide.

If you take the Martinez/Miazga/Baker etc period , they were clearly here to go straight into the first team and stave off relegation.

However if you take the 3 loanees from last season who were all decent players.

If Gibson was a better calibre player would McIntyre have seen as much game time?
If Esteves was a better calibre player would Holmes have seen as much game time?
If Semedo was a better calibre player would the Rino/Laurent partnership have been given time to flourish.

All 3 of those definitely added depth and options to the overall squad whilst not screaming "guaranteed 1st team starters"

I think our needs are stronger for this season for 1st team starters so I'd say we'd have to set the Loan bar higher for this season if we can.

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Re: If it started tomorrow.

by URZZZZ » 22 Jul 2021 12:02

Zip
andrew1957 Without new signings and with our recent injury record I fully expect 3-4 of our core players to be out of action by the end of September - in which case we would then have to play U23's to fill the gaps.

Therefore, if the FL doesn't allow us to sign anyone and we get our normal injuries, I think we are pretty much relegation fodder. If they allow us to sign 5 or so good frees or loans we might have a chance of being competitive. It probably depends on whether the FL want to make an example of us. Quite surprised they have been so lenient to Derby - although that might be because Derby are definitely getting a points deduction for dodgy accounting and the FL don't want to be accused of relegating Derby before the season even starts.

So my prediction is that we are more likely to be nearer L1 than the PL by May.



Also a bit concerning that players could still leave. We could probably let Moore go but we really cannot let Swift leave.
Frankly anything above bottom three by next May is fine by me. We are now paying for the excesses of recent seasons.


Wouldn’t be too upset with Swift going. Has undoubted talent but he simply cannot stay off the injury table. With a stretched squad as it is, we can’t afford players who can’t string more than 5 games in a row

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Re: If it started tomorrow.

by Snowflake Royal » 22 Jul 2021 12:17

Zip
andrew1957 Without new signings and with our recent injury record I fully expect 3-4 of our core players to be out of action by the end of September - in which case we would then have to play U23's to fill the gaps.

Therefore, if the FL doesn't allow us to sign anyone and we get our normal injuries, I think we are pretty much relegation fodder. If they allow us to sign 5 or so good frees or loans we might have a chance of being competitive. It probably depends on whether the FL want to make an example of us. Quite surprised they have been so lenient to Derby - although that might be because Derby are definitely getting a points deduction for dodgy accounting and the FL don't want to be accused of relegating Derby before the season even starts.

So my prediction is that we are more likely to be nearer L1 than the PL by May.


Agreed. Also worth bearing in mind we are on a run of just one win in our last eleven games and our squad is considerably thinner now. You can always expect a number of players to be out injured throughout much of the season. With what we currently it would only take four or five injuries to leave us with a weakish starting 11 with almost nothing on the bench.

We do need to bring players in but mustn’t panic just yet. We have another 5/6 weeks before the window closes and there could be some good options (especially PL loanees) that could make a big difference. The EFL will presumably relent shortly as we should be able to bring in players so that we are up to 23 senior players.

Also a bit concerning that players could still leave. We could probably let Moore go but we really cannot let Swift leave.
Frankly anything above bottom three by next May is fine by me. We are now paying for the excesses of recent seasons.

Swift will spend half the season on the treatment table anyway.

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Re: If it started tomorrow.

by Snowflake Royal » 22 Jul 2021 12:21

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Hound I'm not panicking by any means yet

The spine is very strong - Rafael - Moore/Morrison/McIntyre - Rino/Laurent/Swift - Puscas/Joao

We need more productive loans than last year though. First team regulars rather than fill ins. We seem to have a fairly decent network but just didnt quite get the right type of player in last season.

The trialists would do a job for us I think if they were cheap. Bolasie would be nice. Tetek and Azeez look ready to play to me from the U23.


Exactly. Now if we had a weak spine, I’d be less confident of avoiding a relegation scrap.

We need 2 ‘wide’ (not wingers for Ian!) options, a left back, a bit more cover in central mid.

As you say, the quality of the loans need to be better and we need to get less injury-prone players in the squad.

Out of the options, my guess would be Moore, Rafael & Puscas as the most likely players to depart. If it’s the latter, we’d need to replace and get another striker in.

It’s not panic stations until the transfer windows closes and we fail to bring anyone in. There’s been plenty of seasons where we’ve signed players very late on in the window, 11-12 being a good example of that

Think you're confusing me with someone else. I'm fine with wingers. I've wanted a winger in place of Ejaria for ages. We just don't have any fit ones. I'm also happy to consider people wingers even if they don't exclusively hug the touchline and just put crosses in.


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Re: If it started tomorrow.

by Notts Royal » 22 Jul 2021 12:38

Snowflake Royal
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Hound I'm not panicking by any means yet

The spine is very strong - Rafael - Moore/Morrison/McIntyre - Rino/Laurent/Swift - Puscas/Joao

We need more productive loans than last year though. First team regulars rather than fill ins. We seem to have a fairly decent network but just didnt quite get the right type of player in last season.

The trialists would do a job for us I think if they were cheap. Bolasie would be nice. Tetek and Azeez look ready to play to me from the U23.


Exactly. Now if we had a weak spine, I’d be less confident of avoiding a relegation scrap.

We need 2 ‘wide’ (not wingers for Ian!) options, a left back, a bit more cover in central mid.

As you say, the quality of the loans need to be better and we need to get less injury-prone players in the squad.

Out of the options, my guess would be Moore, Rafael & Puscas as the most likely players to depart. If it’s the latter, we’d need to replace and get another striker in.

It’s not panic stations until the transfer windows closes and we fail to bring anyone in. There’s been plenty of seasons where we’ve signed players very late on in the window, 11-12 being a good example of that

Think you're confusing me with someone else. I'm fine with wingers. I've wanted a winger in place of Ejaria for ages. We just don't have any fit ones. I'm also happy to consider people wingers even if they don't exclusively hug the touchline and just put crosses in.


It wasn’t a dig, was just referencing your conversation in response to others banging on about needing wingers, when we don’t really play a style that makes use of them.

Either way, some wide players are needed.

The suggestion, from someone else, that they’d be happy to see Swift go is madness. Where on earth would the source of goals come from right now? Ovie is still to step up in that area, hopefully he can become more effective this season. But right now, if we lost Swift I think we’d be significantly weaker

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Re: If it started tomorrow.

by Snowflake Royal » 22 Jul 2021 12:43

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Exactly. Now if we had a weak spine, I’d be less confident of avoiding a relegation scrap.

We need 2 ‘wide’ (not wingers for Ian!) options, a left back, a bit more cover in central mid.

As you say, the quality of the loans need to be better and we need to get less injury-prone players in the squad.

Out of the options, my guess would be Moore, Rafael & Puscas as the most likely players to depart. If it’s the latter, we’d need to replace and get another striker in.

It’s not panic stations until the transfer windows closes and we fail to bring anyone in. There’s been plenty of seasons where we’ve signed players very late on in the window, 11-12 being a good example of that

Think you're confusing me with someone else. I'm fine with wingers. I've wanted a winger in place of Ejaria for ages. We just don't have any fit ones. I'm also happy to consider people wingers even if they don't exclusively hug the touchline and just put crosses in.


It wasn’t a dig, was just referencing your conversation in response to others banging on about needing wingers, when we don’t really play a style that makes use of them.

Either way, some wide players are needed.

The suggestion, from someone else, that they’d be happy to see Swift go is madness. Where on earth would the source of goals come from right now? Ovie is still to step up in that area, hopefully he can become more effective this season. But right now, if we lost Swift I think we’d be significantly weaker

Fair enough. :)

I'd be happy to see Swift go.

He's one of our top earners, and virtually misses every other season. The injuries are stacking up on him to the point he's unlikely to maintain performance even if he can maintain fitness.

I'd rather move Ovie to the middle, which means he's competing with Swift. I think Laurent could 'do a job' further forward and has Tetek to cover him deeper. Then there's the likes of Camara, Azeez and the short chap last night who look promising and might be able to cover Swift's position, even before you factor in a cheaper replacement and £1m+ in the desperately empty bank account.

Fact is, we're not selling high earners unless they're good players we'd miss. But we need to lose high earners and sell players. Desperately.

As for where the goals will come from? Ejaria has to start delivering. Joao, Puscas. Laurent should probably pop a few more in.

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Re: If it started tomorrow.

by Coppells Lost Coat » 22 Jul 2021 12:53

Swift is definitely still needed here and would be harder to replace - but as many have said his injury record speak for itself. However he is fit right now, therefore strolls into the squad with zero hesitation.

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Re: If it started tomorrow.

by Notts Royal » 22 Jul 2021 13:08

Last summer I’d have been happy for Swift to have gone, albeit the £3.5m Sheff Utd offer was too low. We had Olise & Ejaria to replace.

I agree on moving Ovie into the centre, but he’d need to assist a lot more and not slow the game down as much.

For those reasons, I think it’s essential to keep Swift now, and would prefer to sell either Puscas, Rafael or Moore


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Re: If it started tomorrow.

by Zip » 22 Jul 2021 13:30

Coppells Lost Coat Swift is definitely still needed here and would be harder to replace - but as many have said his injury record speak for itself. However he is fit right now, therefore strolls into the squad with zero hesitation.


Absolutely. Let Swift go and Ovie gets injured equals zero creativity.

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Re: If it started tomorrow.

by Snowflake Royal » 22 Jul 2021 13:45

Beggars can't be choosers.

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Re: If it started tomorrow.

by Royal_jimmy » 22 Jul 2021 14:01

If we can get a decent offer I'd consider cashing in on Puscas. We could probably recoup most of the money we spent on him whilst his stock is relatively high. He's a replaceable player as long as we don't sign someone who gets injured a lot.

Although if we sign wingers it'll be interesting to see if that gets more out of him as he has scored a lot of goals from good crosses.

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Re: If it started tomorrow.

by Hound » 22 Jul 2021 14:15

After watching Ovie and Swift last night, i'd be really keen to keep swift for the season. Obviously if a decent offer comes in, we don't have a lot of choice. But we're a much better team with him in it than we are without. Not sure thats totally true of Moore, and Southwood could be first choice IMO if we had any sort of offer for Rafael.


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Re: If it started tomorrow.

by SCIAG » 22 Jul 2021 15:01

Agreeing with the thrust here - we can afford to lose Moore and Rafael if we receive offers. We could also lose one of Puscas and Joao - I’d rather lose Puscas who is probably on a higher wage and is being amortised at a higher rate, but we’re much more likely to get an offer for Joao. Losing Joao would be a big blow but we would still have a striker who is proven at this level.

Swift on the other hand is pretty much irreplaceable, so I would only sell him if either 1) the sale would allow us to bring in three players - a left back, a right winger, and another creative player or 2) the sale is necessary to avoid a points deduction or worse.

Sensible fees IMO would be around:

£1m for Rafael
£2m for Moore
£3m for Puscas (unless we sell Joao - then triple it)
£5m for Joao (unless we sell Puscas - then triple it)
and whatever fee meets my above criteria for Swift.

I think they’re all “worth” more than that, but given their wages, our financial situation and the current state of the market including the almost complete financial collapse of the football systems in France and Spain? We’ll have to accept less.

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Re: If it started tomorrow.

by Elm Park Kid » 22 Jul 2021 16:04

Right now though we have to consider our finances in terms of what keeps the EFL happy, rather than what is 'good business'. It could very well be the case that what we receive in transfer fee and a lower wage budget will only result in a small increase in what the EFL lets us spend.

For example - we could sell two players bringing in £5m in revenue and reducing the wages by £3m and it's possible (just speculating here) that the EFL could turn round and say 'ok, you can now sign £1m worth of player contracts'. Maybe in the longer-term it brings our losses down so we could get out of restrictions next season - but right now those two players will likely be worth more to us than the signings we are allowed to make.

Clearly if the EFL will let us spend closer to £4-5m of that total than we could probably utilise it well enough to make it worthwhile.

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Re: If it started tomorrow.

by skipper » 22 Jul 2021 16:33

So after last night's performance, does Azeez slip into the full squad this season?

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Re: If it started tomorrow.

by Hendo » 22 Jul 2021 16:44

skipper So after last night's performance, does Azeez slip into the full squad this season?


I'd say he was probably already in there before last night.

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Re: If it started tomorrow.

by Hound » 22 Jul 2021 16:57

Hendo
skipper So after last night's performance, does Azeez slip into the full squad this season?


I'd say he was probably already in there before last night.


yeah. not that I'd be expecting him to start too often yet

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Re: If it started tomorrow.

by Hendo » 22 Jul 2021 16:58

Hound
Hendo
skipper So after last night's performance, does Azeez slip into the full squad this season?


I'd say he was probably already in there before last night.


yeah. not that I'd be expecting him to start too often yet


No, for sure. Will be mostly used as a sub, but I would imagine he'd be on the bench more often than not and then starting the cup games.

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Re: If it started tomorrow.

by blythspartan » 22 Jul 2021 17:05

I have no problem with our starting eleven but given our recent injury record we’ll be down to 5 or 6 of them after the first 6 games. It’s too early to be negative about the season ahead but I fear that we’ll be back to flirting with relegation again, if we can’t make any new signings.

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