Ince out!

[Chairman Mao]

Am I the only one that doesn't think Ince's current brand of football is boring and negative?

I far prefer it to the slow tedious shit under Stam and Paunovic. It's more positive than Bowen. Its not exactly implemented particularly well given our circumstances, but with better players and experience that'll improve.

this, up to a point

Its not great/ideal. its a bit negative, weve collapsed away from home and weve gone seriously backwards in terms of generating any real possession but we are competing, we look alot better organised, much better in terms of mentality/resilience and game management, we are mixing it up alot more, and the (home) games are much more exciting to watch.

way ahead of the turgid dullness under all the previous tippy tappy pass it around at the back merchants imo.

[Chairman Mao]

From Stam onwards in terms of entertainment only (not quality) I’d go

Gomes - Ince - Bowen - clement - Pauno - Stam

Not been exactly blessed with entertaining football tbh

Wouldn’t class anything seen since “McDermott 1” as entertaining and Pauno’s time was the very worst football of anything seen at the club ever, though would agree that Stam’s effort has to be rated as the most tedious.

Even McDermott 1, whilst exciting at times, wasn't high quality. It was spoil in midfield and hook it into the channels.

high quality passing, or win the league....
tough one

[Stranded]

As with last season, we don’t press high enough up the park. We let the opposition settle into every game as a result. Very few teams are able to successfully execute playing it out from the back so I’m not quite sure why we play so cautiously so often. I get we try and play with pressing “trigger points” but I don’t think it’s worked particularly well which goes with the amount of goals we concede

Similarly I’m not sure we have much of a plan attacking. We can’t string three passes together without it going back to Lumley. Must have one of the lowest possession stats in the league? We rarely create good chances for our strikers (four talented strikers on how many goals between them?). The movement in the team is too static. Said it many times before but this formation is so dependent on the wide players. Look how closely our form corresponds with Hoilett’s drop in form - almost from the exact same game (Norwich H game). Pace and directness hurts and to be fair to Ince, Azeez was a great choice as a sub at LWB on Saturday. The use of Rahman this season is baffling

Where we have improved tenfold this season is our ability to mix it up physically. Compare our performance at Luton this season to our home one last season back in January. Likewise winning at the Den is a fantastic result

16th is obviously a decent achievement given the pre-season predictions. But we’ve been on borderline relegation form since matchday 8 (that sounds familiar) and 4 wins in 18 is a concern. Calls for him to go are premature but the last thing we need is to be dragged down into a relegation fight with the fixtures we have coming up this month. And Ince has a history of starting well at jobs before dismantling

Whilst I agree with a lot above I do just get annoyed by the parroting of the 4 in 18 stat without context. We had a run of 9 games, mainly away against teams, who st the time were largely in form or at the top of the table. We picked up about as many points as people expected in that run. It's why the good start was key.

In the 9 games since then, we are a top 10 team.

If you take from the restart, we are 14th and taken more points than all the bottom 5 bar Huddersfield, who have taken the same from a much easier run.

Our form is fine.

Context? We lost 2-0 to a team that had been winless for 8 games. Twice we’ve thrown away 2 goal leads. Also threw away two more leads against QPR and Burnley (although of course Burnley was desperately unlucky). Gave away a three goal lead against Birmingham (their only home win in , and lost 4-0 to a pretty woeful Stoke side

Course you can mitigate that with the 2-0 recovery on Saturday, winning from behind at Hull, and a decent point at Norwich but the bottom line is we should have more wins in that period. And that’s why we’ve dropped to being 1st in October (even if it was only for four minutes!) to being 16th

Sure, do think there is an every growing divide in the Championship that wasn’t so apparent before. The top six is all fairly predictable with West Brom, Watford, Boro, SU and Burnley all there. But do somewhat feel there’s been a missed opportunity given our start.

Yes context - there is no missed opportunity with our start.

We won 7 of the first 11 but let's look at who we actually beat -

We beat 4 of the current bottom 6 (whilst playing the other 2 as well, and losing). Of the other 3, Boro were awful before firing Wilder and were bottom 3 at the time, Blackburn was a great result and performance against the definition of a hot/cold side and Millwall was a great result.

So we started so well because we were "lucky" enough to play teams who we are better than.

After that first 11 games we had:

Norwich - who were flying at the time
QPR - who were flying at the time
West Brom - who had just got rid of Bruce
Swansea - poor result given the 2 goal lead but never somewhere we massively enjoy despite last years win.
Bristol C - won
Burnley - runaway leaders - should have won in retrospect
Luton - last years playoffs and looking good to at least come close again
Preston - Only the top 2 are better on the road than them
Watford - PL relegated side - we would not expect anything from there.

So in that run of 9, we had games where defeat was hardly a surprise but in some cases expected - there are very fews fans (and you can go back on here to around that time) who thought our form would continue and in some cases that we would be lucky to get the 5pts that we did.

Since then, we've played a mixed bag of sides and got a mixed bag of results.

In short, we are a lower mid-table side, who are better than 6-8 sides and will win most games against them but can slip up - are about the same as another 6-8, so can expect a mixed bag there. Then there are another 6-8 sides that are markedly better than us, who will beat us more often than not but we could beat on our best day.

The results this season completely back this up but our fixture list was front loaded with games against the first group, the middle 9 or s0 mainly against sides from the last and since then a decent mix and the spread of results back that up.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

Yeah I don't think we are necessarily performing poorly for a side that is 16th in the table. We've just had streaky bits of form here and there, whilst losing/not beating sides who are better than us (in the main) but also beating the sides we are better than (again, in the main).

Blackpool finished 16th last season with 60 points. We are on course to achieve around 61 points this season based on points per game, so about similar.

Just scanning Blackpool's results, they went on a run of 1 win in 7 games between the first week of November and the end of December. Within that period, they also won only 4 games in 18 from 3rd November to 23rd February.

So really a bit of context would suggest we aren't doing all that badly, a lot of where we are going to finish and what we would should/shouldn't be worried/focused about will be determined by the end of this month. 7 points+ from our remaining fixtures in this month and we are going to be fine and in and around where we are now.

[Snowflake Royal]

Wouldn’t class anything seen since “McDermott 1” as entertaining and Pauno’s time was the very worst football of anything seen at the club ever, though would agree that Stam’s effort has to be rated as the most tedious.

Even McDermott 1, whilst exciting at times, wasn't high quality. It was spoil in midfield and hook it into the channels.

high quality passing, or win the league....
tough one

Well yes. Although it left us ill prepared for the PL which contributed in a small way to the dreadful last decade.

[Royal_jimmy]

4 wins in 20. Not good enough. I can see Ince being under pressure if we don't beat Rotherham on Tuesday

[Ascotexgunner]

4 wins in 20. Not good enough. I can see Ince being under pressure if we don't beat Rotherham on Tuesday

Beyond sacking territory at 90% of clubs but who is out there that wants this gig? He certainly isn't the long term answer....especially when we want to spend money again.

[RoyalBlue]

4 wins in 20. Not good enough. I can see Ince being under pressure if we don't beat Rotherham on Tuesday

Beyond sacking territory at 90% of clubs but who is out there that wants this gig? He certainly isn't the long term answer....especially when we want to spend money again.

That is always the question posed when you start to get into sacking territory. However, I believe the likes of Ady Williams and Mick Gooding when they say there are plenty of managers out there that would snap off your hand to get the opportunity of managing at Reading. Despite the cries of 'tinpot club' from supporters of other teams, it really is a pretty decent club with (I still believe) pretty decent, committed owners and great facilities.

[Snowflake Royal]

4 wins in 20. Not good enough. I can see Ince being under pressure if we don't beat Rotherham on Tuesday

Beyond sacking territory at 90% of clubs but who is out there that wants this gig? He certainly isn't the long term answer....especially when we want to spend money again.

That is always the question posed when you start to get into sacking territory. However, I believe the likes of Ady Williams and Mick Gooding when they say there are plenty of managers out there that would snap off your hand to get the opportunity of managing at Reading. Despite the cries of 'tinpot club' from supporters of other teams, it really is a pretty decent club with (I still believe) pretty decent, committed owners and great facilities.

Perhaps now we're moving out from a cloud, but where have they been for 10 years? It's not like we've provided a shortage of opportunities to get in touch.

In that time we've gone through Adkins, Clarke, McDermott, Stam, Clement, Gomes, Bowen, Paunovic and now Ince.


Who should still get til at least October.

[RoyalBlue]

Beyond sacking territory at 90% of clubs but who is out there that wants this gig? He certainly isn't the long term answer....especially when we want to spend money again.

That is always the question posed when you start to get into sacking territory. However, I believe the likes of Ady Williams and Mick Gooding when they say there are plenty of managers out there that would snap off your hand to get the opportunity of managing at Reading. Despite the cries of 'tinpot club' from supporters of other teams, it really is a pretty decent club with (I still believe) pretty decent, committed owners and great facilities.

Perhaps now we're moving out from a cloud, but where have they been for 10 years? It's not like we've provided a shortage of opportunities to get in touch.

.

They have reached out and have been ignored (probably because they had the wrong agent). Ian Holloway claims that they didn't even have the decency to respond to him when he threw his hat into the ring a while back.

[Snowflake Royal]

That is always the question posed when you start to get into sacking territory. However, I believe the likes of Ady Williams and Mick Gooding when they say there are plenty of managers out there that would snap off your hand to get the opportunity of managing at Reading. Despite the cries of 'tinpot club' from supporters of other teams, it really is a pretty decent club with (I still believe) pretty decent, committed owners and great facilities.

Perhaps now we're moving out from a cloud, but where have they been for 10 years? It's not like we've provided a shortage of opportunities to get in touch.

.

They have reached out and have been ignored (probably because they had the wrong agent). Ian Holloway claims that they didn't even have the decency to respond to him when he threw his hat into the ring a while back.

The Ian Holloway who lost 40 out of 80 games at QPR in about 18 months and then lost 18 out of 39 at Grimsby in 19/20?

I guess you didn't say they had to be good.

[Crowbar6753]

Rotherham (H)
Cardiff (A)
Blackpool (H)
Middlesborough (A)
Sheff Utd (H)
Millwall (H)
Blackburn (A)

I think its pretty much safe to say that our season may well hinge on these next three games!! the four games lurking after that are pretty tough at best, get 6/7 points and we can breath a little easier knowing that we have put a pretty decent gap between us and the bottom group. Anything less and god forbid if we're still on a winless run then we really will be well and truly looking over our shoulders.

On top of that, if we continue our poor run of form how long before the crowd start to turn on Ince!! Personally i still feel he's got enough in the tank at present for it to turn toxic however, those four games after the next three have me more than worried.

[Royal_jimmy]

Less than 7 points from the next 3 is unacceptable. As we could easily lose the 4 after that and at best get 2 points from those

[Sutekh]

Whilst I agree with a lot above I do just get annoyed by the parroting of the 4 in 18 stat without context. We had a run of 9 games, mainly away against teams, who st the time were largely in form or at the top of the table. We picked up about as many points as people expected in that run. It's why the good start was key.

In the 9 games since then, we are a top 10 team.

If you take from the restart, we are 14th and taken more points than all the bottom 5 bar Huddersfield, who have taken the same from a much easier run.

Our form is fine.

Context? We lost 2-0 to a team that had been winless for 8 games. Twice we’ve thrown away 2 goal leads. Also threw away two more leads against QPR and Burnley (although of course Burnley was desperately unlucky). Gave away a three goal lead against Birmingham (their only home win in , and lost 4-0 to a pretty woeful Stoke side

Course you can mitigate that with the 2-0 recovery on Saturday, winning from behind at Hull, and a decent point at Norwich but the bottom line is we should have more wins in that period. And that’s why we’ve dropped to being 1st in October (even if it was only for four minutes!) to being 16th

Sure, do think there is an every growing divide in the Championship that wasn’t so apparent before. The top six is all fairly predictable with West Brom, Watford, Boro, SU and Burnley all there. But do somewhat feel there’s been a missed opportunity given our start.

Yes context - there is no missed opportunity with our start.

We won 7 of the first 11 but let's look at who we actually beat -

We beat 4 of the current bottom 6 (whilst playing the other 2 as well, and losing). Of the other 3, Boro were awful before firing Wilder and were bottom 3 at the time, Blackburn was a great result and performance against the definition of a hot/cold side and Millwall was a great result.

So we started so well because we were "lucky" enough to play teams who we are better than.

After that first 11 games we had:

Norwich - who were flying at the time
QPR - who were flying at the time
West Brom - who had just got rid of Bruce
Swansea - poor result given the 2 goal lead but never somewhere we massively enjoy despite last years win.
Bristol C - won
Burnley - runaway leaders - should have won in retrospect
Luton - last years playoffs and looking good to at least come close again
Preston - Only the top 2 are better on the road than them
Watford - PL relegated side - we would not expect anything from there.

So in that run of 9, we had games where defeat was hardly a surprise but in some cases expected - there are very fews fans (and you can go back on here to around that time) who thought our form would continue and in some cases that we would be lucky to get the 5pts that we did.

Since then, we've played a mixed bag of sides and got a mixed bag of results.

In short, we are a lower mid-table side, who are better than 6-8 sides and will win most games against them but can slip up - are about the same as another 6-8, so can expect a mixed bag there. Then there are another 6-8 sides that are markedly better than us, who will beat us more often than not but we could beat on our best day.

The results this season completely back this up but our fixture list was front loaded with games against the first group, the middle 9 or s0 mainly against sides from the last and since then a decent mix and the spread of results back that up.

Yes, understood but several of those game have been lost on the day because of cr@p substitutions (if any made at all) and overly negative team selections and/or tactics. But equally you can say the injuries and ffp restrictions haven’t enabled the club to have quality options when they’ve been needed. Don’t want Incey sacked especially but I’m not convinced about him long term either. If the club was not under ffp and able to trade normally PI would be under immense pressue currently if not already sacked.

[Stranded]

The next 3 games will define if Ince gets longer or not. 3 games against clubs below us. 6,7 or even 9 points is achievable - minimum has to be 5.

Anything less and we risk being in a relegation battle we should be able to steer clear off.

[morganb]

Just wondering who at the club will decide if Ince get sacked? Will it be Bowen, Bowen advising Dai or just Dai himself.

(It's not going to happen though)

Also, do we think the club sees what we see regarding tactics etc and might be considering a change now/in the summer or are they if we're not relegated then Ince stays?

[Brogue]

Getreading article on the 10th feb quote from ince

‘Would I love to play four at the back? Yes. Can I? At the moment, I can't.’

Moore is ready, he came through an u21’s unscathed. I expect to see a 4 at the back with him in the team. Yiadom playing in his natural position. Holmes and Moore and cb and rahman as a lb not a lwb which I think we will suit him better. It will make us more balanced and less square pegs in round holes. I think this formation will see us home for the season.

[Sutekh]

Getreading article on the 10th feb quote from ince

‘Would I love to play four at the back? Yes. Can I? At the moment, I can't.’

Moore is ready, he came through an u21’s unscathed. I expect to see a 4 at the back with him in the team. Yiadom playing in his natural position. Holmes and Moore and cb and rahman as a lb not a lwb which I think we will suit him better. It will make us more balanced and less square pegs in round holes. I think this formation will see us home for the season.

Like a lot of clubs these days, you can’t get proper full backs, ie players who defend first and foremost and offer the occasional effective foray forward. Now it’s all about having full backs halfway up the pitch, so you can pack the midfield out, and they can offer as much by way of wing play as they do defensively. Personally think it’s yet another way those in the game atrying to destroy the art of defending. I’d much prefer proper fullbacks and proper wingers than a load of blokes getting in each other’s way in midfield.

[SCIAG]

From Stam onwards in terms of entertainment only (not quality) I’d go

Gomes - Ince - Bowen - clement - Pauno - Stam

Not been exactly blessed with entertaining football tbh

I suspect your version of this list and mine might be in the opposite order!

I really liked the way we played under Stam, it was proper football, allowed the talent in the team to shine, and it got results. Swift, Beerens, Kelly, Joey - Stam got us purring. Flying wingers, midfielders who moved the ball well, defenders who were comfortable in possession (except McShane), a goalkeeper who played like he had a Cruyff turn bonus - it was a joy to watch.

Similarly Paunovic, he got the best out of Joao, Richards, Ejaria, and Olise, and arguably Meite, while also having Swift as his usual self and a robust and dynamic midfield of Laurent and Rinomhota. I can understand some people thinking Stam was boring, but not Paunovic. We had width, pace, and skill.

Gomes… no real identity. Tried to get us playing in our usual possession-based style but couldn’t work the system out. Always trying to shoehorn Loader in. We looked best when we have Baker playing.

I actually think I’ve blocked out the Clement era. Can’t remember any defining qualities at all. Refreshing my memory, it’s the period where our entire midfield and central defence was injured and we had Josh Sims on loan. Yeah, entirely unmemorable seems fair.

Hard to judge Ince given that he’s got a midfield held together with string, two forwards with a combined age of nearly 70, and a goalkeeper who needs way more protection than typical. Joao for whatever reason is badly out of form and Ejaria has barely been picked. Between our toothless attack, workmanlike midfield, and liability goalkeeper, it’s hard to think how Ince could impose a different style - but getting Ejaria and Joao back on song would solve two of those problems. Mitigating circumstances to one side, Ince’s style is dull and lifeless.

Bowen… probably the least aesthetic of our managers. Got Meite and Puscas scoring and made us much more solid. One crazy game away to Luton but otherwise, pretty anti-football at times.

[Snowflake Royal]

From Stam onwards in terms of entertainment only (not quality) I’d go

Gomes - Ince - Bowen - clement - Pauno - Stam

Not been exactly blessed with entertaining football tbh

I suspect your version of this list and mine might be in the opposite order!

I really liked the way we played under Stam, it was proper football, allowed the talent in the team to shine, and it got results. Swift, Beerens, Kelly, Joey - Stam got us purring. Flying wingers, midfielders who moved the ball well, defenders who were comfortable in possession (except McShane), a goalkeeper who played like he had a Cruyff turn bonus - it was a joy to watch.

Similarly Paunovic, he got the best out of Joao, Richards, Ejaria, and Olise, and arguably Meite, while also having Swift as his usual self and a robust and dynamic midfield of Laurent and Rinomhota. I can understand some people thinking Stam was boring, but not Paunovic. We had width, pace, and skill.

Gomes… no real identity. Tried to get us playing in our usual possession-based style but couldn’t work the system out. Always trying to shoehorn Loader in. We looked best when we have Baker playing.

I actually think I’ve blocked out the Clement era. Can’t remember any defining qualities at all. Refreshing my memory, it’s the period where our entire midfield and central defence was injured and we had Josh Sims on loan. Yeah, entirely unmemorable seems fair.

Hard to judge Ince given that he’s got a midfield held together with string, two forwards with a combined age of nearly 70, and a goalkeeper who needs way more protection than typical. Joao for whatever reason is badly out of form and Ejaria has barely been picked. Between our toothless attack, workmanlike midfield, and liability goalkeeper, it’s hard to think how Ince could impose a different style - but getting Ejaria and Joao back on song would solve two of those problems. Mitigating circumstances to one side, Ince’s style is dull and lifeless.

Bowen… probably the least aesthetic of our managers. Got Meite and Puscas scoring and made us much more solid. One crazy game away to Luton but otherwise, pretty anti-football at times.

Stam and Paunovic only had the illusion of looking good while it got results. Stam was boring and grindy, Paunovic had a couple of months of negative with insane conversion rates thanks to Joao, but when he tried to go more expansive it fell apart.

Trying to rank them is pretty hard because most of them just didn’t get enough quality implementation of what they were trying to achieve to judge it. They're essentially all taking up much the same ground at the shit end.

I prefer the way Clement, Bowen and Ince try to play to Paunovic and Stam (who goes down alongside Rodgers as an abominably tedious style of football). I don't think Gomes had enough of a clue of what he wanted to do to have a style.