Reasons to be hopeful?

[YorkshireRoyal99]

He was ok. Easily replaceable imo. Didn’t kick on from his early form and spent half of last season out with a twisted ankle

Not one I’m particularly worried about losing. Think Laurent would have been a good fit in this current team though

Agree here - Rino was good when he first came onto the scene but has been decent since, not outstanding. A shame to lose him, but not too bothered that we don't have him.

Laurent I'd have preferred to stay because he was showing much more promise under Ince. Providing the Loum deal gets confirmed, I don't think we've ended up worse off personally, based on the little we've seen thus far. I do think that's also down to a change in system as well, where, by and large, we look more resolute now in the middle of the park.

[Snowflake Royal]

And yet Laurent was the fixture throughout the season in a midfield Hound thinks we couldn’t do worse than. And he'd take Drinkwater back, who was also a much bigger part of that failed midfield than Rino.

Doesn’t add up.

[Hound]

I meant it has to do better if we are to stay up. It was awful last year. Not that it definitely will do better

I’d take Rino back as well, but just don’t think he is that good. I’d hope Fornah or Loum if he ever actually joins, will offer more

[YorkshireRoyal99]

Inclined to agree with Hound again there.

[Coppells Lost Coat]

For me, the failed midfield was more down to how imbalanced the team was regardless of who started in CM. Playing 2 wingers and Swift in a 5 man midfield with a striker who doesn't track his man probably should be mentioned. On top of the constant chopping and changing due to injuries.
It was a much bigger problem than if Rino / Drinkwater / Laurent / TDB are good enough midfielders.
Swift was both the problem and the solution to all of our issues in midfield.

[Hound]

Wouldn’t disagree with that esp the bit about swift

Though genuinely don’t think TDB was good enough for the level (still young and time to improve). The other 3 would all do fine with a better system and players around them

[Zip]

For me, the failed midfield was more down to how imbalanced the team was regardless of who started in CM. Playing 2 wingers and Swift in a 5 man midfield with a striker who doesn't track his man probably should be mentioned. On top of the constant chopping and changing due to injuries.
It was a much bigger problem than if Rino / Drinkwater / Laurent / TDB are good enough midfielders.
Swift was both the problem and the solution to all of our issues in midfield.

Spot on and the opposition knew it. Teams would drive down the centre of the pitch virtually unopposed before switching play to the flanks in an attacking position. It was far too easy.

[Lower West]

I know that there are still some additions to the squad to come - but what do people think will be reasonable criteria on how to judge P. Ince? IMO . . .

Not sure that anyone can be fairly judged given the circumstances. Good teams are built over a considerable period of time. Survival in the Championship probably is the only measurement as to whether the season is a success.

[Snowflake Royal]

For me, the failed midfield was more down to how imbalanced the team was regardless of who started in CM. Playing 2 wingers and Swift in a 5 man midfield with a striker who doesn't track his man probably should be mentioned. On top of the constant chopping and changing due to injuries.
It was a much bigger problem than if Rino / Drinkwater / Laurent / TDB are good enough midfielders.
Swift was both the problem and the solution to all of our issues in midfield.

Laurent was certainly good enough, but he just didn't have the focus on his defensive duties.

So often midfield was awol leaving the CBs unprotected. And a lot of that was management direction. Then there was all the cheap errors giving the ball away in our own third.

[Coppells Lost Coat]

Laurent was certainly good enough, but he just didn't have the focus on his defensive duties.

So often midfield was awol leaving the CBs unprotected. And a lot of that was management direction. Then there was all the cheap errors giving the ball away in our own third.

I think we are on the same page, I see that as swift and Joao deserted defensive duties, it pushed up Laurent and Rino to attempt to stop opposition midfielders to get a good run in unopposed. Leaving the huge gap between defence and midfield. The knock on effect caused chaos and we collapsed.
The cheap mistakes are part of the game and comes with the territory of playing out from the back - which were doing a terrible job at.

So I am hoping that we set up to be hard to be broken down, might be painful to watch at first but as the season goes on we have enough flair going forward in Ince / Joao / Meite / Hoilet and Ejaria to create goals / problems.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

Laurent was certainly good enough, but he just didn't have the focus on his defensive duties.

So often midfield was awol leaving the CBs unprotected. And a lot of that was management direction. Then there was all the cheap errors giving the ball away in our own third.

I think we are on the same page, I see that as swift and Joao deserted defensive duties, it pushed up Laurent and Rino to attempt to stop opposition midfielders to get a good run in unopposed. Leaving the huge gap between defence and midfield. The knock on effect caused chaos and we collapsed.
The cheap mistakes are part of the game and comes with the territory of playing out from the back - which were doing a terrible job at.

So I am hoping that we set up to be hard to be broken down, might be painful to watch at first but as the season goes on we have enough flair going forward in Ince / Joao / Meite / Hoilet and Ejaria to create goals / problems.

We could have potentially used a CB who is capable of stepping out and engaging the ball, unfortunately that just didn't seem to be the case with anyone who played CB last season, bar maybe Moore up until the debacle in January as well. Whether that was just the players' preference or a tactical instruction is something else. We tried playing like a top of the table team (particularly under Pauno) but we didn't have the quality of player.

A lot of teams that can be hard to break down can be decent to watch. Stifling the game and hoofing it long Allardyce/Pulis style might be a bit much, but there can be good football on display in counter attacking teams. We aren't exactly blessed with pace in the team in general but if we can move the ball quickly that will make up for part of that. But I get the main point, the style of play is less important than what it normally would be, especially this season where we are just wanting to survive again ultimately.

[Coppells Lost Coat]

We could have potentially used a CB who is capable of stepping out and engaging the ball, unfortunately that just didn't seem to be the case with anyone who played CB last season, bar maybe Moore up until the debacle in January as well. Whether that was just the players' preference or a tactical instruction is something else. We tried playing like a top of the table team (particularly under Pauno) but we didn't have the quality of player.

You could have thrown Laporte in there but if players are running at you, unopposed from deep, you dont stand a chance. Unless you mean, dropping Swift for a more defensive minded player - then yes that would have helped. Rino and Laurent were screening players around the half way line if they lost their man they waltzed into the 18 yard box. If they were screening them where they should be - if they lost their man they would waltz offside.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

We could have potentially used a CB who is capable of stepping out and engaging the ball, unfortunately that just didn't seem to be the case with anyone who played CB last season, bar maybe Moore up until the debacle in January as well. Whether that was just the players' preference or a tactical instruction is something else. We tried playing like a top of the table team (particularly under Pauno) but we didn't have the quality of player.

You could have thrown Laporte in there but if players are running at you, unopposed from deep, you dont stand a chance. Unless you mean, dropping Swift for a more defensive minded player - then yes that would have helped. Rino and Laurent were screening players around the half way line if they lost their man they waltzed into the 18 yard box. If they were screening them where they should be - if they lost their man they would waltz offside.

Depends how good of a defender you are and what your strengths are. Obviously it's more difficult to defend against a player running at you, but it's also not impossible. If you are going to have your midfield advance, you need to have defenders are are capable of playing high as well and are capable of stepping in when necessary as well.

Not disagreeing with what you're saying though.

[Royal_jimmy]

We need to give the new hierarchy a chance. It's just shocking how bad we were run before

[Lower West]

Laurent was certainly good enough, but he just didn't have the focus on his defensive duties.

So often midfield was awol leaving the CBs unprotected. And a lot of that was management direction. Then there was all the cheap errors giving the ball away in our own third.

I think we are on the same page, I see that as swift and Joao deserted defensive duties, it pushed up Laurent and Rino to attempt to stop opposition midfielders to get a good run in unopposed. Leaving the huge gap between defence and midfield. The knock on effect caused chaos and we collapsed.
The cheap mistakes are part of the game and comes with the territory of playing out from the back - which were doing a terrible job at.

So I am hoping that we set up to be hard to be broken down, might be painful to watch at first but as the season goes on we have enough flair going forward in Ince / Joao / Meite / Hoilet and Ejaria to create goals / problems.

Add Ejaria to the list of those who often go awol when posssession of the ball is lost.

[Hendo]

Laurent was certainly good enough, but he just didn't have the focus on his defensive duties.

So often midfield was awol leaving the CBs unprotected. And a lot of that was management direction. Then there was all the cheap errors giving the ball away in our own third.

I think we are on the same page, I see that as swift and Joao deserted defensive duties, it pushed up Laurent and Rino to attempt to stop opposition midfielders to get a good run in unopposed. Leaving the huge gap between defence and midfield. The knock on effect caused chaos and we collapsed.
The cheap mistakes are part of the game and comes with the territory of playing out from the back - which were doing a terrible job at.

So I am hoping that we set up to be hard to be broken down, might be painful to watch at first but as the season goes on we have enough flair going forward in Ince / Joao / Meite / Hoilet and Ejaria to create goals / problems.

Add Ejaria to the list of those who often go awol when posssession of the ball is lost.

Don't agree with this at all. Ovie is one of the best players tracking back, especially when he loses the ball. His work-rate is something which can't be argued.

[Snowflake Royal]

I think we are on the same page, I see that as swift and Joao deserted defensive duties, it pushed up Laurent and Rino to attempt to stop opposition midfielders to get a good run in unopposed. Leaving the huge gap between defence and midfield. The knock on effect caused chaos and we collapsed.
The cheap mistakes are part of the game and comes with the territory of playing out from the back - which were doing a terrible job at.

So I am hoping that we set up to be hard to be broken down, might be painful to watch at first but as the season goes on we have enough flair going forward in Ince / Joao / Meite / Hoilet and Ejaria to create goals / problems.

Add Ejaria to the list of those who often go awol when posssession of the ball is lost.

Don't agree with this at all. Ovie is one of the best players tracking back, especially when he loses the ball. His work-rate is something which can't be argued.

Mostly, but he absolutely does switch off and wimp out sometimes. And then there's the times he lays on the floor sulking for a freekick when he's just been tackled, instead of getting up and chasing back.

Laurent's work rate was excellent. Except when it wasn't.