Reasons to be hopeful?

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Snowflake Royal
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Re: Reasons to be hopeful?

by Snowflake Royal » 07 Jun 2022 16:47

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Snowflake Royal Nah,there's always a phoenix

There is on the proviso you've got a motivated and keen supporter base who'll rally round to make it happen.

Who have we got... STAR? Don't get me wrong I'm not knocking the coaches or the biannual Fan's Forums but we're talking a different level of commitment here.

We've got a sizeable middle class fanbase, with an organised framework from STAR which can be built upon based on need.

It won’t be hard to get a low tier club started and funded from the fallout of the club going bust. Whether it would be successful or not medium term, you can never tell. Would be decades in getting back to this level if at all, but there would be a club.

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tmesis
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Re: Reasons to be hopeful?

by tmesis » 07 Jun 2022 17:08

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Snowflake Royal Nah,there's always a phoenix

There is on the proviso you've got a motivated and keen supporter base who'll rally round to make it happen.

Who have we got... STAR? Don't get me wrong I'm not knocking the coaches or the biannual Fan's Forums but we're talking a different level of commitment here.

I've no doubt it would happen. Indeed, in the perfect scenario of being able to play at the Madejski still, without being crippled with rent costs, I'm sure we'd get ridiculously good crowds for the level - certainly more than any other phoenix club.

Stuck at Scours Lane though, or even at Maidenhead, things wouldn't look so rosy.

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Dirk Gently
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Re: Reasons to be hopeful?

by Dirk Gently » 07 Jun 2022 17:43

Snowflake Royal
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Snowflake Royal Nah,there's always a phoenix

There is on the proviso you've got a motivated and keen supporter base who'll rally round to make it happen.

Who have we got... STAR? Don't get me wrong I'm not knocking the coaches or the biannual Fan's Forums but we're talking a different level of commitment here.

We've got a sizeable middle class fanbase, with an organised framework from STAR which can be built upon based on need.

It won’t be hard to get a low tier club started and funded from the fallout of the club going bust. Whether it would be successful or not medium term, you can never tell. Would be decades in getting back to this level if at all, but there would be a club.


The legal structure exists to make it happen, but I doubt enough of the fanbase give a sh*t about the club to make it happen properly. We're not a club with a history of mass support going back generations - the majority of our supporters probably started going in the last 25 years, and to them losing the club would be an inconvenience, and not something they'd want to make any long-term financial committment towards just to keep the club or a phoenix alive.

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Snowflake Royal
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Re: Reasons to be hopeful?

by Snowflake Royal » 07 Jun 2022 17:49

Dirk Gently
Snowflake Royal
Green There is on the proviso you've got a motivated and keen supporter base who'll rally round to make it happen.

Who have we got... STAR? Don't get me wrong I'm not knocking the coaches or the biannual Fan's Forums but we're talking a different level of commitment here.

We've got a sizeable middle class fanbase, with an organised framework from STAR which can be built upon based on need.

It won’t be hard to get a low tier club started and funded from the fallout of the club going bust. Whether it would be successful or not medium term, you can never tell. Would be decades in getting back to this level if at all, but there would be a club.


The legal structure exists to make it happen, but I doubt enough of the fanbase give a sh*t about the club to make it happen properly. We're not a club with a history of mass support going back generations - the majority of our supporters probably started going in the last 25 years, and to them losing the club would be an inconvenience, and not something they'd want to make any long-term financial committment towards just to keep the club or a phoenix alive.

Not the best of arguments given the other clubs who've managed it are smaller with smaller fanbases.

Back in the 90s we were still regularly getting 5 - 10k crowds plus. And it's not like many of the 10 - 15k still bothering at the moment are doing it for the quality football and success.
Last edited by Snowflake Royal on 07 Jun 2022 17:52, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Reasons to be hopeful?

by muirinho » 07 Jun 2022 17:52

tmesis
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Snowflake Royal Nah,there's always a phoenix

There is on the proviso you've got a motivated and keen supporter base who'll rally round to make it happen.

Who have we got... STAR? Don't get me wrong I'm not knocking the coaches or the biannual Fan's Forums but we're talking a different level of commitment here.

I've no doubt it would happen. Indeed, in the perfect scenario of being able to play at the Madejski still, without being crippled with rent costs, I'm sure we'd get ridiculously good crowds for the level - certainly more than any other phoenix club.

Stuck at Scours Lane though, or even at Maidenhead, things wouldn't look so rosy.


It's not even just about the rent either.

Last full season (2018 / 2019) we have accounts for, match day receipts were 4.7million.
In that season Admin expenses, excluding wages and salaries was £14million. Now that presumably includes the rent of 1.5 million, and non-staff costs associated with the academy (let's say 2.5 million) but what on earth was the other £10million for? Based on that - even if the same number of people turned up and paid the same prices, and every single one of the footballers, coaches, match-day staff, admin staff etc worked for nothing (fat chance), you'd still be £5 million short....

I expect the costs associated with running a large stadium are, well, large. Even if we could play rent free, if we had to pay for running costs, we could not afford that as a phoenix club.
Last edited by muirinho on 07 Jun 2022 17:54, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Reasons to be hopeful?

by blythspartan » 07 Jun 2022 17:52

Dirk Gently
Snowflake Royal
Green There is on the proviso you've got a motivated and keen supporter base who'll rally round to make it happen.

Who have we got... STAR? Don't get me wrong I'm not knocking the coaches or the biannual Fan's Forums but we're talking a different level of commitment here.

We've got a sizeable middle class fanbase, with an organised framework from STAR which can be built upon based on need.

It won’t be hard to get a low tier club started and funded from the fallout of the club going bust. Whether it would be successful or not medium term, you can never tell. Would be decades in getting back to this level if at all, but there would be a club.


The legal structure exists to make it happen, but I doubt enough of the fanbase give a sh*t about the club to make it happen properly. We're not a club with a history of mass support going back generations - the majority of our supporters probably started going in the last 25 years, and to them losing the club would be an inconvenience, and not something they'd want to make any long-term financial committment towards just to keep the club or a phoenix alive.


I am pretty sure if Aldershot and Wimbledon were able to muster enough support we’d be able to. Obviously, I wouldn’t want to see it happen but I’d certainly go to most games.

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Re: Reasons to be hopeful?

by Snowflake Royal » 07 Jun 2022 17:54

muirinho
tmesis
Green There is on the proviso you've got a motivated and keen supporter base who'll rally round to make it happen.

Who have we got... STAR? Don't get me wrong I'm not knocking the coaches or the biannual Fan's Forums but we're talking a different level of commitment here.

I've no doubt it would happen. Indeed, in the perfect scenario of being able to play at the Madejski still, without being crippled with rent costs, I'm sure we'd get ridiculously good crowds for the level - certainly more than any other phoenix club.

Stuck at Scours Lane though, or even at Maidenhead, things wouldn't look so rosy.


It's not even just about the rent either.

Last full season (2018 / 2019) we have accounts for, match day receipts were 4.7million.
In that season Admin expenses, excluding wages and salaries was £14million. Now that presumably includes the rent of 1.5 million, and non-staff costs associated with the academy (let's say 2.5 million) but what on earth was the other £10million for? Based on that - even if the same number of people turned up and paid the same prices, and every single one of the footballers, coaches, match-day staff, admin staff etc worked for nothing (fat chance), you'd still be £5 million short....

The overheads of a tier 7 side are going to be nothing like that of a Champ side, even excluding player wages etc. False comparison

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Re: Reasons to be hopeful?

by Dirk Gently » 07 Jun 2022 17:54

Snowflake Royal
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Snowflake Royal We've got a sizeable middle class fanbase, with an organised framework from STAR which can be built upon based on need.

It won’t be hard to get a low tier club started and funded from the fallout of the club going bust. Whether it would be successful or not medium term, you can never tell. Would be decades in getting back to this level if at all, but there would be a club.


The legal structure exists to make it happen, but I doubt enough of the fanbase give a sh*t about the club to make it happen properly. We're not a club with a history of mass support going back generations - the majority of our supporters probably started going in the last 25 years, and to them losing the club would be an inconvenience, and not something they'd want to make any long-term financial committment towards just to keep the club or a phoenix alive.

Not the best of arguments given the other clubs who've managed it are smaller with smaller fanbases.


I'm not talking about size, I'm talking about passion. I've been (very loosley) involved in helping set up a number of phoenix clubs in the past, and the people involved have always been absolutely driven - far more than I think the vast majority of Reading supporters would ever be.

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Re: Reasons to be hopeful?

by Snowflake Royal » 07 Jun 2022 17:56

Dirk Gently
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The legal structure exists to make it happen, but I doubt enough of the fanbase give a sh*t about the club to make it happen properly. We're not a club with a history of mass support going back generations - the majority of our supporters probably started going in the last 25 years, and to them losing the club would be an inconvenience, and not something they'd want to make any long-term financial committment towards just to keep the club or a phoenix alive.

Not the best of arguments given the other clubs who've managed it are smaller with smaller fanbases.


I'm not talking about size, I'm talking about passion. I've been (very loosley) involved in helping set up a number of phoenix clubs in the past, and the people involved have always been absolutely driven - far more than I think the vast majority of Reading supporters would ever be.

Far more than the vast majority of their own fans.

The idea you'd need (plucks figure at random) 10k absolutely driven fans to do it is daft. And a lot of the passion is driven by the demise, which hasn't happened.

In the age of crowd funding its easier to get the money too.


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Re: Reasons to be hopeful?

by Dirk Gently » 07 Jun 2022 19:12

Snowflake Royal
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Snowflake Royal Not the best of arguments given the other clubs who've managed it are smaller with smaller fanbases.


I'm not talking about size, I'm talking about passion. I've been (very loosley) involved in helping set up a number of phoenix clubs in the past, and the people involved have always been absolutely driven - far more than I think the vast majority of Reading supporters would ever be.

Far more than the vast majority of their own fans.

The idea you'd need (plucks figure at random) 10k absolutely driven fans to do it is daft. And a lot of the passion is driven by the demise, which hasn't happened.

In the age of crowd funding its easier to get the money too.


You don't. You need a hard core of a dozen or so who are absolutely driven and will literallyput their lives on hold and live the concept for a couple of years and drive it forward, and enough other fans who are passionate enough to grasp the idea and follow it through.

Considering that STAR has rarely had enough people intersted to be board members to force an election I'm dubious there are enough of the first, and without them you won't get enough drive to make it happen successfully and get the followers.

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Re: Reasons to be hopeful?

by Green » 07 Jun 2022 19:18

Dirk Gently
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The legal structure exists to make it happen, but I doubt enough of the fanbase give a sh*t about the club to make it happen properly. We're not a club with a history of mass support going back generations - the majority of our supporters probably started going in the last 25 years, and to them losing the club would be an inconvenience, and not something they'd want to make any long-term financial committment towards just to keep the club or a phoenix alive.

Not the best of arguments given the other clubs who've managed it are smaller with smaller fanbases.


I'm not talking about size, I'm talking about passion. I've been (very loosley) involved in helping set up a number of phoenix clubs in the past, and the people involved have always been absolutely driven - far more than I think the vast majority of Reading supporters would ever be.

Maybe save it for another thread but wouldn't mind hearing some of these war stories sometime.

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Re: Reasons to be hopeful?

by Green » 07 Jun 2022 20:54

Anyway, the reasons to be hopeful thread took a depressing turn. Sorry LUX.

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Re: Reasons to be hopeful?

by Nameless » 07 Jun 2022 20:56

Dirk Gently
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I'm not talking about size, I'm talking about passion. I've been (very loosley) involved in helping set up a number of phoenix clubs in the past, and the people involved have always been absolutely driven - far more than I think the vast majority of Reading supporters would ever be.

Far more than the vast majority of their own fans.

The idea you'd need (plucks figure at random) 10k absolutely driven fans to do it is daft. And a lot of the passion is driven by the demise, which hasn't happened.

In the age of crowd funding its easier to get the money too.


You don't. You need a hard core of a dozen or so who are absolutely driven and will literallyput their lives on hold and live the concept for a couple of years and drive it forward, and enough other fans who are passionate enough to grasp the idea and follow it through.

Considering that STAR has rarely had enough people intersted to be board members to force an election I'm dubious there are enough of the first, and without them you won't get enough drive to make it happen successfully and get the followers.



There are plenty of the sort of people you describe. There are more organisations than just Star and there are people who don’t join organisations.
There are two fans who are keen enough and wealthy enough to have sponsored the ground.....


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Re: Reasons to be hopeful?

by Nameless » 07 Jun 2022 20:56

Dirk Gently
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I'm not talking about size, I'm talking about passion. I've been (very loosley) involved in helping set up a number of phoenix clubs in the past, and the people involved have always been absolutely driven - far more than I think the vast majority of Reading supporters would ever be.

Far more than the vast majority of their own fans.

The idea you'd need (plucks figure at random) 10k absolutely driven fans to do it is daft. And a lot of the passion is driven by the demise, which hasn't happened.

In the age of crowd funding its easier to get the money too.


You don't. You need a hard core of a dozen or so who are absolutely driven and will literallyput their lives on hold and live the concept for a couple of years and drive it forward, and enough other fans who are passionate enough to grasp the idea and follow it through.

Considering that STAR has rarely had enough people intersted to be board members to force an election I'm dubious there are enough of the first, and without them you won't get enough drive to make it happen successfully and get the followers.



There are plenty of the sort of people you describe. There are more organisations than just Star and there are people who don’t join organisations.
There are two fans who are keen enough and wealthy enough to have sponsored the ground.....

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Re: Reasons to be hopeful?

by tmesis » 07 Jun 2022 21:03

Dirk Gently
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I'm not talking about size, I'm talking about passion. I've been (very loosley) involved in helping set up a number of phoenix clubs in the past, and the people involved have always been absolutely driven - far more than I think the vast majority of Reading supporters would ever be.

Far more than the vast majority of their own fans.

The idea you'd need (plucks figure at random) 10k absolutely driven fans to do it is daft. And a lot of the passion is driven by the demise, which hasn't happened.

In the age of crowd funding its easier to get the money too.


You don't. You need a hard core of a dozen or so who are absolutely driven and will literallyput their lives on hold and live the concept for a couple of years and drive it forward, and enough other fans who are passionate enough to grasp the idea and follow it through.

Considering that STAR has rarely had enough people intersted to be board members to force an election I'm dubious there are enough of the first, and without them you won't get enough drive to make it happen successfully and get the followers.

I think basing anything on STAR, a largeless powerless body that limply presents the case of supporters, few of whom expect the club to take notice, is a rather pointless exercise. You just aren't comparing like for like.

Besides, it's not as if Aldershot, Newport, Wimbledon etc were exactly known for having passionate fanbases before they disappeared. Wimbledon were getting record low crowds in the top flight, such was the fans' apathy, and didn't put up much of a fight when moved out to Selhurst Park.

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Re: Reasons to be hopeful?

by RoyalBlue » 07 Jun 2022 21:56

tmesis
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Snowflake Royal Far more than the vast majority of their own fans.

The idea you'd need (plucks figure at random) 10k absolutely driven fans to do it is daft. And a lot of the passion is driven by the demise, which hasn't happened.

In the age of crowd funding its easier to get the money too.


You don't. You need a hard core of a dozen or so who are absolutely driven and will literallyput their lives on hold and live the concept for a couple of years and drive it forward, and enough other fans who are passionate enough to grasp the idea and follow it through.

Considering that STAR has rarely had enough people intersted to be board members to force an election I'm dubious there are enough of the first, and without them you won't get enough drive to make it happen successfully and get the followers.

I think basing anything on STAR, a largeless powerless body that limply presents the case of supporters, few of whom expect the club to take notice, is a rather pointless exercise. You just aren't comparing like for like.

.


I think that is a salient point. The perception of many (correct or not) is that those running the club take very little notice of STAR and this would understandably result in a lack of interest in getting involved in STAR. I think you'd see a very noticeable increase in interest were STAR to have a proper, meaningful involvement in the way the club is run, which could clearly be the case with a phoenix club.

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Re: Reasons to be hopeful?

by blythspartan » 08 Jun 2022 08:11

Most football pundits have us nailed on for relegation next season, especially if we lose Joao. One of the reasons given on a popular podcast is because we have Paul Ince as Manager which is a bit harsh. I get that we only have 7 contracted players but there’s a while to go before the season starts. Let’s suck it in and prove the oxf*rd wrong.

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Re: Reasons to be hopeful?

by NathStPaul » 08 Jun 2022 08:16

Which football pundits have spoken about next season in the Championship? Haven't seen anything.

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Re: Reasons to be hopeful?

by blythspartan » 08 Jun 2022 08:35

NathStPaul Which football pundits have spoken about next season in the Championship? Haven't seen anything.


Ryan Dilks, Justin Peach, Don Goodman and Andy Hinchliffe.

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Re: Reasons to be hopeful?

by YorkshireRoyal99 » 08 Jun 2022 09:02

I could understand where they are coming from, we've already lost Swift and potentially going to lose Joao who were our most 2 influential players last season I think and I think it's hard to argue otherwise. Their direct contributions basically kept us in the division, they are big boots to fill. I don't doubt we will replace them, but it's who with which is the issue. If we lose Joao, the only goalscorer we have is Meite and he's essentially had 12 months without any football due to a serious injury so who knows how he will recover.

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