Injury watch 2022/23

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Re: Injury watch 2022/23

by Zip » 22 Jun 2022 13:09

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Snowflake Royal Bollox



It's not bolloxs at all
No one was putting a gun to the head of Reading FC. If we were stupid enough to pay Moore what he wanted its entirely our fault.
We should have got rid when he was a saleable asset and still on sensible wages.

You all seem to think it's only possible for one person to be at fault, and and forget all the power players have.

I don't. We didn't put a gun to his head and force him to take it.


So you think an employee is going to turn down a lucrative increase in their pay packet? How many people on here would turn around to their employers and say no to a big increase in their pay? Get real Ian. He was highly valued by the club at the time having performed well. We chose to agree a massive increase in his pay to keep him at the club. This at a time when our wages were spiralling out of control and exceeding our incoming revenue.

We have been a basket case of a club and are now suffering from the consequences of being run so stupidly. As I repeat we could have told him to get lost but chose to keep him and pay him ridiculous wages. Our fault as a club. No one else’s.

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Re: Injury watch 2022/23

by blythspartan » 22 Jun 2022 13:25

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It's not bolloxs at all
No one was putting a gun to the head of Reading FC. If we were stupid enough to pay Moore what he wanted its entirely our fault.
We should have got rid when he was a saleable asset and still on sensible wages.

You all seem to think it's only possible for one person to be at fault, and and forget all the power players have.

I don't. We didn't put a gun to his head and force him to take it.


So you think an employee is going to turn down a lucrative increase in their pay packet? How many people on here would turn around to their employers and say no to a big increase in their pay? Get real Ian. He was highly valued by the club at the time having performed well. We chose to agree a massive increase in his pay to keep him at the club. This at a time when our wages were spiralling out of control and exceeding our incoming revenue.

We have been a basket case of a club and are now suffering from the consequences of being run so stupidly. As I repeat we could have told him to get lost but chose to keep him and pay him ridiculous wages. Our fault as a club. No one else’s.


+1 but tbf I can see how a player can be cajoled by his agent to get a better deal. Agents are adept at drumming up interest which can then force a club to make a rash decision. Not sure these days if a player controls their agent or whether it’s the other way round.

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Re: Injury watch 2022/23

by Zip » 22 Jun 2022 13:32

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Snowflake Royal You all seem to think it's only possible for one person to be at fault, and and forget all the power players have.

I don't. We didn't put a gun to his head and force him to take it.


So you think an employee is going to turn down a lucrative increase in their pay packet? How many people on here would turn around to their employers and say no to a big increase in their pay? Get real Ian. He was highly valued by the club at the time having performed well. We chose to agree a massive increase in his pay to keep him at the club. This at a time when our wages were spiralling out of control and exceeding our incoming revenue.

We have been a basket case of a club and are now suffering from the consequences of being run so stupidly. As I repeat we could have told him to get lost but chose to keep him and pay him ridiculous wages. Our fault as a club. No one else’s.


+1 but tbf I can see how a player can be cajoled by his agent to get a better deal. Agents are adept at drumming up interest which can then force a club to make a rash decision. Not sure these days if a player controls their agent or whether it’s the other way round.


Sure but we could have told the agent to fukk off too. It wasn’t just the amount of money we were paying Moore but the length of the contract. Idiotic.

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Re: Injury watch 2022/23

by blythspartan » 22 Jun 2022 13:43

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So you think an employee is going to turn down a lucrative increase in their pay packet? How many people on here would turn around to their employers and say no to a big increase in their pay? Get real Ian. He was highly valued by the club at the time having performed well. We chose to agree a massive increase in his pay to keep him at the club. This at a time when our wages were spiralling out of control and exceeding our incoming revenue.

We have been a basket case of a club and are now suffering from the consequences of being run so stupidly. As I repeat we could have told him to get lost but chose to keep him and pay him ridiculous wages. Our fault as a club. No one else’s.


+1 but tbf I can see how a player can be cajoled by his agent to get a better deal. Agents are adept at drumming up interest which can then force a club to make a rash decision. Not sure these days if a player controls their agent or whether it’s the other way round.


Sure but we could have told the agent to fukk off too. It wasn’t just the amount of money we were paying Moore but the length of the contract. Idiotic.


Agreed - We can blame Gourlay

https://www.readingfc.co.uk/news/2018/a ... -contract/

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Re: Injury watch 2022/23

by Zip » 22 Jun 2022 13:47

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+1 but tbf I can see how a player can be cajoled by his agent to get a better deal. Agents are adept at drumming up interest which can then force a club to make a rash decision. Not sure these days if a player controls their agent or whether it’s the other way round.


Sure but we could have told the agent to fukk off too. It wasn’t just the amount of money we were paying Moore but the length of the contract. Idiotic.


Agreed - We can blame Gourlay

https://www.readingfc.co.uk/news/2018/a ... -contract/


Yep.


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Re: Injury watch 2022/23

by Hound » 22 Jun 2022 13:57

Though didn’t Gourlay agree to sell him if I remember from the podcast Moore did

Then the owner stepped in and said he wouldn’t be sold

Moore then allowed his performances during that contract decline for whatever reason. Didn’t see anyone begrudge Swift his salary last season when he still put in the effort generally and did well for us

It’s a whole sorry episode of absolute rubbishness from everyone involved. Equal parts from Dai, Moore and Gourlay for me

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Re: Injury watch 2022/23

by YorkshireRoyal99 » 22 Jun 2022 14:22

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Snowflake Royal Bollox



It's not bolloxs at all
No one was putting a gun to the head of Reading FC. If we were stupid enough to pay Moore what he wanted its entirely our fault.
We should have got rid when he was a saleable asset and still on sensible wages.

You all seem to think it's only possible for one person to be at fault, and and forget all the power players have.

I don't. We didn't put a gun to his head and force him to take it.


One of those powers isn't to offer a contract to himself. He can demand £30k a week and say if we don't offer him that he will leave if he wants, we do not have to abide to either of those. We, the club, are in control of where he goes because he is contracted to us.

Moore isn't at fault for stating his demands to the club. If it's grossly overpaid (as it was and is), we should have refused and sold, like most other clubs would do. The fact we didn't has partly lead to the situation we are in today.

It doesn't make him a villain either. He offered his demands and secured his long-term future with the club and we've obviously not hidden our ambitions to make the Premier League, so we gave him it. He hasn't performed to a £30k a week player by any means, but we shouldn't have given him that deal to begin with.

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Re: Injury watch 2022/23

by Nameless » 22 Jun 2022 14:48

Hard to work out the logic behind thinking Moore is to blame for what we pay him. Some seriously painful contortions behind that.
He tried to negotiate an out with the club last summer and the club rejected it then twisted it against him. I think the club have played this all wrong and it’s going to be a key factor in our season.
Hard to see a good way out of it given Moore us absolutely within his rights to insist his contract is honoured.

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Re: Injury watch 2022/23

by YorkshireRoyal99 » 22 Jun 2022 15:10

Nameless Hard to work out the logic behind thinking Moore is to blame for what we pay him. Some seriously painful contortions behind that.
He tried to negotiate an out with the club last summer and the club rejected it then twisted it against him. I think the club have played this all wrong and it’s going to be a key factor in our season.
Hard to see a good way out of it given Moore us absolutely within his rights to insist his contract is honoured.


Bowen also mentioned how he was getting rid of Moore before Pauno took over, before the board blocked the decision along with Swift's move to Sheff United as well. Agreed, we haven't played it very well now he's seen as a villain to the club where we previously did above and beyond to keep him.


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Re: Injury watch 2022/23

by Zip » 22 Jun 2022 15:24

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It's not bolloxs at all
No one was putting a gun to the head of Reading FC. If we were stupid enough to pay Moore what he wanted its entirely our fault.
We should have got rid when he was a saleable asset and still on sensible wages.

You all seem to think it's only possible for one person to be at fault, and and forget all the power players have.

I don't. We didn't put a gun to his head and force him to take it.


One of those powers isn't to offer a contract to himself. He can demand £30k a week and say if we don't offer him that he will leave if he wants, we do not have to abide to either of those. We, the club, are in control of where he goes because he is contracted to us.

Moore isn't at fault for stating his demands to the club. If it's grossly overpaid (as it was and is), we should have refused and sold, like most other clubs would do. The fact we didn't has partly lead to the situation we are in today.

It doesn't make him a villain either. He offered his demands and secured his long-term future with the club and we've obviously not hidden our ambitions to make the Premier League, so we gave him it. He hasn't performed to a £30k a week player by any means, but we shouldn't have given him that deal to begin with.



Spot on.

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Re: Injury watch 2022/23

by paultheroyal » 22 Jun 2022 15:29

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It's not bolloxs at all
No one was putting a gun to the head of Reading FC. If we were stupid enough to pay Moore what he wanted its entirely our fault.
We should have got rid when he was a saleable asset and still on sensible wages.

You all seem to think it's only possible for one person to be at fault, and and forget all the power players have.

I don't. We didn't put a gun to his head and force him to take it.


So you think an employee is going to turn down a lucrative increase in their pay packet? How many people on here would turn around to their employers and say no to a big increase in their pay? Get real Ian. He was highly valued by the club at the time having performed well. We chose to agree a massive increase in his pay to keep him at the club. This at a time when our wages were spiralling out of control and exceeding our incoming revenue.

We have been a basket case of a club and are now suffering from the consequences of being run so stupidly. As I repeat we could have told him to get lost but chose to keep him and pay him ridiculous wages. Our fault as a club. No one else’s.


Must admit i am totally struggling with this concept that the player is at fault for accepting a lucrative contract. Whether he is worth that is clearly up for debate but the rest of the stuff being said, deary me.

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Re: Injury watch 2022/23

by YorkshireRoyal99 » 22 Jun 2022 15:32

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Snowflake Royal You all seem to think it's only possible for one person to be at fault, and and forget all the power players have.

I don't. We didn't put a gun to his head and force him to take it.


So you think an employee is going to turn down a lucrative increase in their pay packet? How many people on here would turn around to their employers and say no to a big increase in their pay? Get real Ian. He was highly valued by the club at the time having performed well. We chose to agree a massive increase in his pay to keep him at the club. This at a time when our wages were spiralling out of control and exceeding our incoming revenue.

We have been a basket case of a club and are now suffering from the consequences of being run so stupidly. As I repeat we could have told him to get lost but chose to keep him and pay him ridiculous wages. Our fault as a club. No one else’s.


Must admit i am totally struggling with this concept that the player is at fault for accepting a lucrative contract. Whether he is worth that is clearly up for debate but the rest of the stuff being said, deary me.


To be fair, at that time, he probably was worth that. Hence why there was PL interest that would pay him that. Yes, he hasn't been since but hindsight will always be 20-20. As has been said, we were responsible for a 5 year deal on £30k per week, not Moore and his agent.

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Re: Injury watch 2022/23

by Snowflake Royal » 22 Jun 2022 17:48

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It's not bolloxs at all
No one was putting a gun to the head of Reading FC. If we were stupid enough to pay Moore what he wanted its entirely our fault.
We should have got rid when he was a saleable asset and still on sensible wages.

You all seem to think it's only possible for one person to be at fault, and and forget all the power players have.

I don't. We didn't put a gun to his head and force him to take it.


So you think an employee is going to turn down a lucrative increase in their pay packet? How many people on here would turn around to their employers and say no to a big increase in their pay? Get real Ian. He was highly valued by the club at the time having performed well. We chose to agree a massive increase in his pay to keep him at the club. This at a time when our wages were spiralling out of control and exceeding our incoming revenue.

We have been a basket case of a club and are now suffering from the consequences of being run so stupidly. As I repeat we could have told him to get lost but chose to keep him and pay him ridiculous wages. Our fault as a club. No one else’s.

We didn't come up with the figure without his input zip. Utterly delusional to think we just offered him a PL salary with no prompting after he handed in a transfer request and we refused the bid.

Very Tory attitude from you. Grab all you can. Ok.


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Re: Injury watch 2022/23

by Snowflake Royal » 22 Jun 2022 17:51

Hound Though didn’t Gourlay agree to sell him if I remember from the podcast Moore did

Then the owner stepped in and said he wouldn’t be sold

Moore then allowed his performances during that contract decline for whatever reason. Didn’t see anyone begrudge Swift his salary last season when he still put in the effort generally and did well for us

It’s a whole sorry episode of absolute rubbishness from everyone involved. Equal parts from Dai, Moore and Gourlay for me

And the reason Moore agitated for a move was because Gourlay wasn't just giving him the new contract he wanted.

Ie Gourlay knew we couldn’t afford him and was hoping to sell him but Dai oxf*rd it up.

That's a possibility, but no one will consider it because Gourlay is a handy scapegoat to blame everything on and allow the likes of Dai and Moore off scott free.

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Re: Injury watch 2022/23

by Franchise FC » 22 Jun 2022 17:53

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Snowflake Royal You all seem to think it's only possible for one person to be at fault, and and forget all the power players have.

I don't. We didn't put a gun to his head and force him to take it.


So you think an employee is going to turn down a lucrative increase in their pay packet? How many people on here would turn around to their employers and say no to a big increase in their pay? Get real Ian. He was highly valued by the club at the time having performed well. We chose to agree a massive increase in his pay to keep him at the club. This at a time when our wages were spiralling out of control and exceeding our incoming revenue.

We have been a basket case of a club and are now suffering from the consequences of being run so stupidly. As I repeat we could have told him to get lost but chose to keep him and pay him ridiculous wages. Our fault as a club. No one else’s.

We didn't come up with the figure without his input zip. Utterly delusional to think we just offered him a PL salary with no prompting after he handed in a transfer request and we refused the bid.

Very Tory attitude from you. Grab all you can. Ok.

Al true but there was no compulsory requirement (is that tautology) to agree any level of request.
We had no requirement to even renegotiate the contract at all. That was entirely in the hands of the club

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Re: Injury watch 2022/23

by Snowflake Royal » 22 Jun 2022 17:55

YorkshireRoyal99
To be fair, at that time, he probably was worth that. Hence why there was PL interest that would pay him that. Yes, he hasn't been since but hindsight will always be 20-20. As has been said, we were responsible for a 5 year deal on £30k per week, not Moore and his agent.

May be hindsight for many of you, but for some of us it was really obvious foresight. Me included.

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Re: Injury watch 2022/23

by Nameless » 22 Jun 2022 18:17

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To be fair, at that time, he probably was worth that. Hence why there was PL interest that would pay him that. Yes, he hasn't been since but hindsight will always be 20-20. As has been said, we were responsible for a 5 year deal on £30k per week, not Moore and his agent.

May be hindsight for many of you, but for some of us it was really obvious foresight. Me included.


To use your own term
Bollox
You are having a shocker on this one

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Re: Injury watch 2022/23

by Snowflake Royal » 22 Jun 2022 18:25

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To be fair, at that time, he probably was worth that. Hence why there was PL interest that would pay him that. Yes, he hasn't been since but hindsight will always be 20-20. As has been said, we were responsible for a 5 year deal on £30k per week, not Moore and his agent.

May be hindsight for many of you, but for some of us it was really obvious foresight. Me included.


To use your own term
Bollox
You are having a shocker on this one

:| if it makes you happy to believe that. Knock yourself out. Happily, your opinion doesn’t change reality.

Not hard to call that giving a Championship player a 4/5 year contract on £30k a week when we were in a poor financial position and it would be crippling if we didn’t go up / sell soon after rather than realising a tidy profit and reinvesting it is a terrible idea. Or maybe I'm a genius (I'm not).

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Re: Injury watch 2022/23

by Snowflake Royal » 22 Jun 2022 18:42

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To be fair, at that time, he probably was worth that. Hence why there was PL interest that would pay him that. Yes, he hasn't been since but hindsight will always be 20-20. As has been said, we were responsible for a 5 year deal on £30k per week, not Moore and his agent.

May be hindsight for many of you, but for some of us it was really obvious foresight. Me included.


To use your own term
Bollox
You are having a shocker on this one

Nameless
Snowflake Royal I find that news mote worrying tbh. Either we'll have upped his almost certainly already rather high wages, or we'll have inserted a release clause for a certain fee / level of team performance. Or both.

We're not exactly rolling in money so chucking more at him seems a poor choice. And the owners have just said they won't sell him at any price, the other would be a bit of a mixed message.

if the extra money is performance related it's no big issue. up his win bonus, up his points bonus, up his league place bonus and it pays for itself.
And if he has a storming season and we sell him in the summer for £15 million then it will absolutely have been worth it.
the worrying situation would ave been if we had caved in to Brighton's attempts to get him on the cheap or if he had stayed but gone into a season long sulk. we seem have have avoided both those and probably handled the situation as well as we would have,

Oh look. Me at the time saying the contract was a concern.

And look, there's Nameless quoting me and playing the its fine game.

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Re: Injury watch 2022/23

by morganb » 22 Jun 2022 19:00

First day of pre-season and the injury thread is already up to 3 pages!

(Fortunately the majority is about Moore)

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