Let’s give Dai some credit

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Re: Let’s give Dai some credit

by From Despair To Where? » 20 Sep 2022 21:53

Prettty sure Joorabchain's involvement occured after Gourlay left but if you look at the transfers that Joorabchain was allegedly involved in, they were a marked improvement; Martinez, Oliviera, Baker, Margaret, Joao, Ejaria, and most of them were loans

The inherent problem there is that you are outsourcing scouting to an agent, which I alluded to in my original post.

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Re: Let’s give Dai some credit

by Zip » 20 Sep 2022 22:04

From Despair To Where? Prettty sure Joorabchain's involvement occured after Gourlay left but if you look at the transfers that Joorabchain was allegedly involved in, they were a marked improvement; Martinez, Oliviera, Baker, Margaret, Joao, Ejaria, and most of them were loans

The inherent problem there is that you are outsourcing scouting to an agent, which I alluded to in my original post.



Margaret??

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Re: Let’s give Dai some credit

by Hound » 20 Sep 2022 22:13

Zip
From Despair To Where? Prettty sure Joorabchain's involvement occured after Gourlay left but if you look at the transfers that Joorabchain was allegedly involved in, they were a marked improvement; Martinez, Oliviera, Baker, Margaret, Joao, Ejaria, and most of them were loans

The inherent problem there is that you are outsourcing scouting to an agent, which I alluded to in my original post.



Margaret??


Miazga? Prefer Margaret though

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Re: Let’s give Dai some credit

by Royal_jimmy » 20 Sep 2022 22:26

I have no problem with the club sometimes turning to Kia if a very good player is available who fills a void in the side, the manager wants that player and Bowen believes would fit the profile of the club.

He has helped the club with some crucial signings over the years, but we need players who suit our formation, tactics and style of play on a realistic wage. We also need to look more at players needing to prove a point. Bowen coming back has been key, hopefully he'll stay in the role for at least a few years and get an effective and successful player recruitment model in place. Next season will be interesting if we are in the championship next season.

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Re: Let’s give Dai some credit

by From Despair To Where? » 21 Sep 2022 06:54

The problem with Joorabchian was that his involvement saw a decline in the club's own scouting network and for a lot of the time, we didn't have a Bowen type figure vetting the deals, hence we got players like Boye coming in or we ended up spending £10m+ on 2 strikers when we already had about 5 at the club and some of the money would have been better served securing bettet deals for players like Richards and Olise.


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Re: Let’s give Dai some credit

by Nameless » 21 Sep 2022 07:29

From Despair To Where? The problem with Joorabchian was that his involvement saw a decline in the club's own scouting network and for a lot of the time, we didn't have a Bowen type figure vetting the deals, hence we got players like Boye coming in or we ended up spending £10m+ on 2 strikers when we already had about 5 at the club and some of the money would have been better served securing bettet deals for players like Richards and Olise.


What size deals do you think would have kept those players here ?

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Re: Let’s give Dai some credit

by Vision » 21 Sep 2022 07:47

From Despair To Where? The problem with Joorabchian was that his involvement saw a decline in the club's own scouting network and for a lot of the time, we didn't have a Bowen type figure vetting the deals, hence we got players like Boye coming in or we ended up spending £10m+ on 2 strikers when we already had about 5 at the club and some of the money would have been better served securing bettet deals for players like Richards and Olise.


The trouble is though, we did have a Bowen type figure around when we got Boye and we spent 10m on those strikers. His name was Mark Bowen. Better deals for Richards and Olise would only have happened if they'd signed longer term deals with us and in Richards' case that was unlikely to happen because until Paunovich came along the previous managers (namely Bowen) didn't seem to rate him.

The signs this summer seem to be that it isn't just Dai that might have learned a lot of those lessons from that time .I guess how much of that is because it has been forced upon us and how much is of our own volition remains to be seen.

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Re: Let’s give Dai some credit

by From Despair To Where? » 21 Sep 2022 08:08

Pretty sure Bowen was a technical consultant at the time those players were signed. I remember an interview with him where he outlined his responsibility as looking at training and match preparation. Not sure what input he had on signings. It may even be that as a result if that he suggested the need for a Sporting Director to oversee all footballing operations. Either way, the backroom setup was a mess which is the central point to all this and that lies firmly at Dai's door.

For the record, I like Dai. I think he is an improvement on the Thais who, in turn, were an improvement on Zingarovich. Also, i think with things like Bearwood, in his own strange way, he is trying to push the club forward. I just hope he learns the lessons of the past 2 years.

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Re: Let’s give Dai some credit

by Snowflake Royal » 21 Sep 2022 08:34

From Despair To Where? Pretty sure Bowen was a technical consultant at the time those players were signed. I remember an interview with him where he outlined his responsibility as looking at training and match preparation. Not sure what input he had on signings. It may even be that as a result if that he suggested the need for a Sporting Director to oversee all footballing operations. Either way, the backroom setup was a mess which is the central point to all this and that lies firmly at Dai's door.

For the record, I like Dai. I think he is an improvement on the Thais who, in turn, were an improvement on Zingarovich. Also, i think with things like Bearwood, in his own strange way, he is trying to push the club forward. I just hope he learns the lessons of the past 2 years.

Bowen was a consultant during the season. By season’s end he was in the Sporting Director's chair and very much involved in signings. He essentially brought in Morrison over Gomes head.

Personally, I'm not giving Dai any credit for turning up to a couple of games and going to the pub, any more than I'm giving him credit for the FL forcing him to manage the club in a more sustainable way.

He ignored Howe. He refused to sell Moore and instructed Gourlay to sort out the much improved deal for him Gourlay had been delaying. He appointed Gomes. He backed Stam for too long and with excessive spending. He dumped the one manager who had avoided a relegation fight with us. He stuck with Paunovic too long. He authorised the massive overspending the second we came out from under an embargo. He's overseen the club malaise that set back in after the Thais stabilised the problems of Zingarevich.

He's going to need to show he can run the club well and sustainably without being forced to with his hands tied by the FL before I give him an ounce of credit.


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Re: Let’s give Dai some credit

by Zip » 21 Sep 2022 08:45

Vision
From Despair To Where? The problem with Joorabchian was that his involvement saw a decline in the club's own scouting network and for a lot of the time, we didn't have a Bowen type figure vetting the deals, hence we got players like Boye coming in or we ended up spending £10m+ on 2 strikers when we already had about 5 at the club and some of the money would have been better served securing bettet deals for players like Richards and Olise.


The trouble is though, we did have a Bowen type figure around when we got Boye and we spent 10m on those strikers. His name was Mark Bowen. Better deals for Richards and Olise would only have happened if they'd signed longer term deals with us and in Richards' case that was unlikely to happen because until Paunovich came along the previous managers (namely Bowen) didn't seem to rate him.

The signs this summer seem to be that it isn't just Dai that might have learned a lot of those lessons from that time .I guess how much of that is because it has been forced upon us and how much is of our own volition remains to be seen.


In fairness to Bowen he didn't want to sign Puscas and I doubt Olise would have signed a new deal.

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Re: Let’s give Dai some credit

by Brogue » 21 Sep 2022 09:08

Zip
Vision
From Despair To Where? The problem with Joorabchian was that his involvement saw a decline in the club's own scouting network and for a lot of the time, we didn't have a Bowen type figure vetting the deals, hence we got players like Boye coming in or we ended up spending £10m+ on 2 strikers when we already had about 5 at the club and some of the money would have been better served securing bettet deals for players like Richards and Olise.


The trouble is though, we did have a Bowen type figure around when we got Boye and we spent 10m on those strikers. His name was Mark Bowen. Better deals for Richards and Olise would only have happened if they'd signed longer term deals with us and in Richards' case that was unlikely to happen because until Paunovich came along the previous managers (namely Bowen) didn't seem to rate him.

The signs this summer seem to be that it isn't just Dai that might have learned a lot of those lessons from that time .I guess how much of that is because it has been forced upon us and how much is of our own volition remains to be seen.


In fairness to Bowen he didn't want to sign Puscas and I doubt Olise would have signed a new deal.


Yeah olise was never going to sign a new contract


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Re: Let’s give Dai some credit

by YorkshireRoyal99 » 21 Sep 2022 09:19

From Despair To Where? Prettty sure Joorabchain's involvement occured after Gourlay left but if you look at the transfers that Joorabchain was allegedly involved in, they were a marked improvement; Martinez, Oliviera, Baker, Margaret, Joao, Ejaria, and most of them were loans

The inherent problem there is that you are outsourcing scouting to an agent, which I alluded to in my original post.


Agree that the problem was scouting through an agent, although I can't imagine the loans for the aforementioned were cheap on a potential loan fee or wages side of things either, that's only based on the set of accounts relating to the year we had all those players on our books as well, where our wages to turnover ratio was up at something like 200%.

I agree that the quality of player we have brought in under Kia (that we know he was involved in) was largely better than those under Gourlay, but it obviously fell well short of expectations given the prices paid for the players, the wages given and our position in the table.

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Re: Let’s give Dai some credit

by Royals and Racers » 21 Sep 2022 09:24

Let’s not forget that we have had for a few months now Brian Carey as head of recruitment. Ex- Tottenham a lot of credit must go to him for the recent signings.


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Re: Let’s give Dai some credit

by morganb » 21 Sep 2022 09:39

Royals and Racers Let’s not forget that we have had for a few months now Brian Carey as head of recruitment. Ex- Tottenham a lot of credit must go to him for the recent signings.


Interesting* that we didn't pick up many players from Tottenham over the summer - just Michael Craig

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Re: Let’s give Dai some credit

by From Despair To Where? » 21 Sep 2022 09:42

Snowflake Royal
From Despair To Where? Pretty sure Bowen was a technical consultant at the time those players were signed. I remember an interview with him where he outlined his responsibility as looking at training and match preparation. Not sure what input he had on signings. It may even be that as a result if that he suggested the need for a Sporting Director to oversee all footballing operations. Either way, the backroom setup was a mess which is the central point to all this and that lies firmly at Dai's door.

For the record, I like Dai. I think he is an improvement on the Thais who, in turn, were an improvement on Zingarovich. Also, i think with things like Bearwood, in his own strange way, he is trying to push the club forward. I just hope he learns the lessons of the past 2 years.

Bowen was a consultant during the season. By season’s end he was in the Sporting Director's chair and very much involved in signings. He essentially brought in Morrison over Gomes head.

Personally, I'm not giving Dai any credit for turning up to a couple of games and going to the pub, any more than I'm giving him credit for the FL forcing him to manage the club in a more sustainable way.

He ignored Howe. He refused to sell Moore and instructed Gourlay to sort out the much improved deal for him Gourlay had been delaying. He appointed Gomes. He backed Stam for too long and with excessive spending. He dumped the one manager who had avoided a relegation fight with us. He stuck with Paunovic too long. He authorised the massive overspending the second we came out from under an embargo. He's overseen the club malaise that set back in after the Thais stabilised the problems of Zingarevich.

He's going to need to show he can run the club well and sustainably without being forced to with his hands tied by the FL before I give him an ounce of credit.


According to the club, Bowen was made Sporting Director 4 games into the new season and 2 days after we beat Cardiff 3-0.

https://readingfc.co.uk//news/2019/august/mark-bowen-appointed-as-sporting-director/

Link doesn't appear to be working properly but it's there on the club website.
Last edited by From Despair To Where? on 21 Sep 2022 09:50, edited 5 times in total.

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Re: Let’s give Dai some credit

by Zip » 21 Sep 2022 09:42

Royals and Racers Let’s not forget that we have had for a few months now Brian Carey as head of recruitment. Ex- Tottenham a lot of credit must go to him for the recent signings.


Both he and Bowen have done very well. For the first time in years there has been a real focus on the type of players we need to compete at this level

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Re: Let’s give Dai some credit

by YorkshireRoyal99 » 21 Sep 2022 10:45

Royals and Racers Let’s not forget that we have had for a few months now Brian Carey as head of recruitment. Ex- Tottenham a lot of credit must go to him for the recent signings.


I was a bit sceptical at first really seen as Spurs' recruitment hasn't been "brilliant" up until more recent times. I'd imagine they are run in a different way to ourselves of course and their recruitment will also be different, but they've had a bit of history of spending a lot on players that ultimately haven't turned out to be that good.

Still though, no criticism so far from our end as our recruitment with most/every player has been pretty good.

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Re: Let’s give Dai some credit

by Sutekh » 21 Sep 2022 10:55

Yes, Brian Carey very much seems to pretty much know what’s what in the market and that must take some doing to keep on top of as each day passes.

He was very much sought after by a host of clubs (some PL I believe) over the summer but was persuaded to the new Reading “project”. Hoping he’ll be around for a good long time if his first few months are anything to go by.

Important thing now is that Reading would appear to have people who know what they’re doing running the important elements of the club; Brian Carey with scouting/recruitment, Eddie Niedzwiecki running player development which seems particularly vital in persuading many top clubs in allowing top loanees to come to the club and, of course, Mark Bowen taking responsibility for all footballing operations within the club (youth, women & men). And all seem to be on the same page and pulling in the same direction at last so it’s been a long wait but at last things would seem to be getting back on track again.

Credit also in some good coaching appointments in James Oliver-Pearce from Wimbledon, Tony Warner and Noel Hunt which would seem to have brought in fresh new ways and ideas to the first team training sessions which I think is something essential to help maintain a “feel good factor” around the place and if you have that that’s half the job done at any club.

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Re: Let’s give Dai some credit

by YorkshireRoyal99 » 21 Sep 2022 11:07

Sutekh Yes, Brian Carey very much seems to pretty much know what’s what in the market and that must take some doing to keep on top of as each day passes.

He was very much sought after by a host of clubs (some PL I believe) over the summer but was persuaded to the new Reading “project”. Hoping he’ll be around for a good long time if his first few months are anything to go by.

Important thing now is that Reading would appear to have people who know what they’re doing running the important elements of the club; Brian Carey with scouting/recruitment, Eddie Niedzwiecki running player development which seems particularly vital in persuading many top clubs in allowing top loanees to come to the club and, of course, Mark Bowen taking responsibility for all footballing operations within the club (youth, women & men). And all seem to be on the same page and pulling in the same direction at last so it’s been a long wait but at last things would seem to be getting back on track again.

Credit also in some good coaching appointments in James Oliver-Pearce from Wimbledon, Tony Warner and Noel Hunt which would seem to have brought in fresh new ways and ideas to the first team training sessions which I think is something essential to help maintain a “feel good factor” around the place and if you have that that’s half the job done at any club.


Definitely have a much better set up both on and off the field now, something which we didn't have when Pauno (and Bowen when he moved from his original Sporting Director role to Manager) was in charge and before him we were reliant on a "super-agent" as well as Gourlay which were unsuccessful for the club.

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Re: Let’s give Dai some credit

by Snowflake Royal » 21 Sep 2022 12:46

From Despair To Where?
Snowflake Royal
From Despair To Where? Pretty sure Bowen was a technical consultant at the time those players were signed. I remember an interview with him where he outlined his responsibility as looking at training and match preparation. Not sure what input he had on signings. It may even be that as a result if that he suggested the need for a Sporting Director to oversee all footballing operations. Either way, the backroom setup was a mess which is the central point to all this and that lies firmly at Dai's door.

For the record, I like Dai. I think he is an improvement on the Thais who, in turn, were an improvement on Zingarovich. Also, i think with things like Bearwood, in his own strange way, he is trying to push the club forward. I just hope he learns the lessons of the past 2 years.

Bowen was a consultant during the season. By season’s end he was in the Sporting Director's chair and very much involved in signings. He essentially brought in Morrison over Gomes head.

Personally, I'm not giving Dai any credit for turning up to a couple of games and going to the pub, any more than I'm giving him credit for the FL forcing him to manage the club in a more sustainable way.

He ignored Howe. He refused to sell Moore and instructed Gourlay to sort out the much improved deal for him Gourlay had been delaying. He appointed Gomes. He backed Stam for too long and with excessive spending. He dumped the one manager who had avoided a relegation fight with us. He stuck with Paunovic too long. He authorised the massive overspending the second we came out from under an embargo. He's overseen the club malaise that set back in after the Thais stabilised the problems of Zingarevich.

He's going to need to show he can run the club well and sustainably without being forced to with his hands tied by the FL before I give him an ounce of credit.


According to the club, Bowen was made Sporting Director 4 games into the new season and 2 days after we beat Cardiff 3-0.

https://readingfc.co.uk//news/2019/august/mark-bowen-appointed-as-sporting-director/

Link doesn't appear to be working properly but it's there on the club website.

Weird, because it was made clear that for the new season his consultancy was over and Gomes wanted autonomy with the playing staff in terms of training and prep across pre-season and into the season.

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