PInce - Concerns Developing - Is He Confused?

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Re: PInce - Concerns Developing - Is He Confused?

by Zip » 21 Jan 2023 19:29

I really wish Ince would ditch playing wingbacks
It just does not work

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Re: PInce - Concerns Developing - Is He Confused?

by AthleticoSpizz » 21 Jan 2023 19:30

Email him Zip, tell him

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Re: PInce - Concerns Developing - Is He Confused?

by YorkshireRoyal99 » 21 Jan 2023 19:34

Not sure you can criticise him over not having a style of play when he hasn't really been given an opportunity to build one. One and a bit windows where we are operating under a transfer embargo where we have to get what we can get and can't really go after players to fit a certain style, we just have to rely on what's out there.

Agree on the youngsters, but on the flip side can completely understand why he'd favour experience this season given our situation. During tough times and a tough season, you look towards your experienced players to lead rather than your youngsters. Experience does count and we have been counting on that all season which has been successful so far.

I think it's a bit daft personally to talk about sacking him or him leaving given the season he's had with us. I do want him to be here for a couple of years to aim to build something successful, not just hiring and firing every 12-18 months when things start going a bit sour, we need to try and buck that trend and I believe Ince can build us a foundation in the long-term to work off.

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Re: PInce - Concerns Developing - Is He Confused?

by Brogue » 21 Jan 2023 19:42

Everyone would have been happy with finishing 21st at the beginning of the season we are going to be finishing much higher than that. He’s doing fine with the limited resources he has at his disposal.

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Re: PInce - Concerns Developing - Is He Confused?

by AthleticoSpizz » 21 Jan 2023 19:43

100% agree Yorkie, however, as much as I would love to see a successful Pince here forever, I think he has built enough credits back, and will be an attractive proposition to move on to another borderline basket-case club to rescue….big respect to him, regardless


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Re: PInce - Concerns Developing - Is He Confused?

by Fezza » 21 Jan 2023 19:52

YorkshireRoyal99 Not sure you can criticise him over not having a style of play when he hasn't really been given an opportunity to build one. One and a bit windows where we are operating under a transfer embargo where we have to get what we can get and can't really go after players to fit a certain style, we just have to rely on what's out there.

Agree on the youngsters, but on the flip side can completely understand why he'd favour experience this season given our situation. During tough times and a tough season, you look towards your experienced players to lead rather than your youngsters. Experience does count and we have been counting on that all season which has been successful so far.

I think it's a bit daft personally to talk about sacking him or him leaving given the season he's had with us. I do want him to be here for a couple of years to aim to build something successful, not just hiring and firing every 12-18 months when things start going a bit sour, we need to try and buck that trend and I believe Ince can build us a foundation in the long-term to work off.


100%

Some of our fans are utterly delusional. He’s been making do with freebies and unsaleable assets in the squad since he arrived. He’s instilled a sense of passion and purpose that has made us a solid mid-table side. At the start of his reign we looked certain for relegation, we are in no way ready to compete for promotion - that isn’t his fault.

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Re: PInce - Concerns Developing - Is He Confused?

by AthleticoSpizz » 21 Jan 2023 19:54

^101%^

(and attracted a couple of ‘names’ in the twilight of their careers who absolutely love playing for Reading…a great asset to have in the dressing room this season)

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Re: PInce - Concerns Developing - Is He Confused?

by YorkshireRoyal99 » 21 Jan 2023 19:58

AthleticoSpizz 100% agree Yorkie, however, as much as I would love to see a successful Pince here forever, I think he has built enough credits back, and will be an attractive proposition to move on to another borderline basket-case club to rescue….big respect to him, regardless


I'm not sure why he'd want to do that, unless we told him otherwise. I think he wants the chance to try and build something and thus far he's earnt the chance to build something.

Fair enough, we've had some poor results and poor performances and our away record is dire, but we've got a fighting team who are playing for the club and we've got the 5th best home record in the league.

Unfortunately, we can't just take our cake and eat it, this will take time to recover from. Look at Birmingham who were deducted points, they are no further forward now than they were then. It will take us years before we get anywhere near the top of this division again consistently, give Ince a chance at least to try and get us there. It won't last forever, but at least a couple of full seasons for me.

If we are seriously talking about a manager being incompetent because we suffered one bad defeat despite sitting 14th in the table considering where everyone thought we would be, I'm afraid some fans will never be pleased.

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Re: PInce - Concerns Developing - Is He Confused?

by Crowbar6753 » 21 Jan 2023 20:15

YorkshireRoyal99
AthleticoSpizz 100% agree Yorkie, however, as much as I would love to see a successful Pince here forever, I think he has built enough credits back, and will be an attractive proposition to move on to another borderline basket-case club to rescue….big respect to him, regardless


I'm not sure why he'd want to do that, unless we told him otherwise. I think he wants the chance to try and build something and thus far he's earnt the chance to build something.

Fair enough, we've had some poor results and poor performances and our away record is dire, but we've got a fighting team who are playing for the club and we've got the 5th best home record in the league.

Unfortunately, we can't just take our cake and eat it, this will take time to recover from. Look at Birmingham who were deducted points, they are no further forward now than they were then. It will take us years before we get anywhere near the top of this division again consistently, give Ince a chance at least to try and get us there. It won't last forever, but at least a couple of full seasons for me.

If we are seriously talking about a manager being incompetent because we suffered one bad defeat despite sitting 14th in the table considering where everyone thought we would be, I'm afraid some fans will never be pleased.


Hi Yorkie,
I mostly agree with you, however, the style of football is becoming harder and harder to watch....and the persistence with WBs when Babba and Hoilett are playing so badly in their current roles is just beyond belief. We have zero creativity in midfield which i get, we're dealt a tough hand due to our transfer embargoes, so do away with the wing backs and bypass the middle of the field and get Meite, Hoilett, Azeez and Ince running from out wide. We have the players to change things up!! or if your so pig headed and stubborn and feel the need for WBs then at least acknowledge that Babba and Hoilett are not in good shape at present and give NWG and Abrefa a go to show what they can do!!


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Re: PInce - Concerns Developing - Is He Confused?

by CountryRoyal » 21 Jan 2023 20:45

Stam and Pauno season 1 both finished in and around the playoffs and were up there all season, despite having absolute shockers and not playing that well for a lot of it.

Outside of the relegated prem teams this division is so tight and the difference between finishing 7th and 15th is never really that big. The idea of slowly building a team and improving year on year isn’t really that likely. You can maybe look at Brentford but how they’ve developed as a club is a slight anomaly, and who’s to say what would have happened if they didn’t go up?

Take Derby for example. 8 consecutive top 10 finishes including 4 playoffs and 2 finals and look where they are now.

To top it all off, even if slowly building a sound promotion capable team was possible, the intrinsic structure of the championship and the managerial merry-go-round make it very difficult.

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Re: PInce - Concerns Developing - Is He Confused?

by YorkshireRoyal99 » 21 Jan 2023 21:08

Crowbar6753
YorkshireRoyal99
AthleticoSpizz 100% agree Yorkie, however, as much as I would love to see a successful Pince here forever, I think he has built enough credits back, and will be an attractive proposition to move on to another borderline basket-case club to rescue….big respect to him, regardless


I'm not sure why he'd want to do that, unless we told him otherwise. I think he wants the chance to try and build something and thus far he's earnt the chance to build something.

Fair enough, we've had some poor results and poor performances and our away record is dire, but we've got a fighting team who are playing for the club and we've got the 5th best home record in the league.

Unfortunately, we can't just take our cake and eat it, this will take time to recover from. Look at Birmingham who were deducted points, they are no further forward now than they were then. It will take us years before we get anywhere near the top of this division again consistently, give Ince a chance at least to try and get us there. It won't last forever, but at least a couple of full seasons for me.

If we are seriously talking about a manager being incompetent because we suffered one bad defeat despite sitting 14th in the table considering where everyone thought we would be, I'm afraid some fans will never be pleased.


Hi Yorkie,
I mostly agree with you, however, the style of football is becoming harder and harder to watch....and the persistence with WBs when Babba and Hoilett are playing so badly in their current roles is just beyond belief. We have zero creativity in midfield which i get, we're dealt a tough hand due to our transfer embargoes, so do away with the wing backs and bypass the middle of the field and get Meite, Hoilett, Azeez and Ince running from out wide. We have the players to change things up!! or if your so pig headed and stubborn and feel the need for WBs then at least acknowledge that Babba and Hoilett are not in good shape at present and give NWG and Abrefa a go to show what they can do!!


Yeah agree there might need to be some flexibility in how we play and maybe get some player back into positions where they fit, the biggest problem we have is just that we are loaded with CB's. But no reason why we can't go for a 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 at the moment really, or at least change who we play at wing back.

People moan about Yiadom at wing back, but he can hardly do worse than Hoilett at the moment and might mean we can get another defender into the team. Bottom line is, it doesn't matter what formation you play, if you play like we did today and make mistakes like we did, you will get beat.

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Re: PInce - Concerns Developing - Is He Confused?

by YorkshireRoyal99 » 21 Jan 2023 21:23

CountryRoyal Stam and Pauno season 1 both finished in and around the playoffs and were up there all season, despite having absolute shockers and not playing that well for a lot of it.

Outside of the relegated prem teams this division is so tight and the difference between finishing 7th and 15th is never really that big. The idea of slowly building a team and improving year on year isn’t really that likely. You can maybe look at Brentford but how they’ve developed as a club is a slight anomaly, and who’s to say what would have happened if they didn’t go up?

Take Derby for example. 8 consecutive top 10 finishes including 4 playoffs and 2 finals and look where they are now.

To top it all off, even if slowly building a sound promotion capable team was possible, the intrinsic structure of the championship and the managerial merry-go-round make it very difficult.


Yeah sort of half agree in a way. Agree that the unpredictability of the Championship and it's volatile nature can make it difficult and agree that there probably isn't a great deal between a lot of sides really, a lot of that in part due to FFP from the recently-relegated PL clubs.

I don't think it would ever be a smooth process, as in, you go from 19th, to 14th, to 8th, to PO's and then wherever, although I do think there can be steady, incremental changes that can impact how your club improves over time. Blackburn and Millwall are decent examples, haven't exactly improved season on season but over a few years from being promoted have now thrown themselves into the "play off contenders" positions in people's minds. It doesn't stop them from having poor seasons, but that's where you'd put them at.

In terms of managerial changes, I think that can depend on the club and the culture. If you have a set way of playing and a style, then you can follow that through coherently. I've always admired Swansea's way of doing that, they played possession football religiously and will appoint a manager with that philosophy, no matter if their previous managers were poor and out of form. Whereas I don't really know what managerial strategy we've had. Stam was possession based, Clement more direct and defensive, Gomes I don't think anyone really knew, Bowen was more direct, Pauno was more possession and now Ince is more defensive and direct but doesn't have much choice. I just haven't seen a strategy with our managers for years now, which is what I'm hoping Ince can possibly set the foundation of. Maybe not the style of play now, but try and develop some foundations to build on going forward.

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Re: PInce - Concerns Developing - Is He Confused?

by AthleticoSpizz » 21 Jan 2023 21:34

Christ (and with all due respect), you do rattle-on don’t you Yorkie?

Can you make your point in an ‘abridged’ 500 word essay?

:D


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Re: PInce - Concerns Developing - Is He Confused?

by Snowflake Royal » 22 Jan 2023 11:50

He's doing some things I'm not keen on, but so does every manager, even the most successful ones. Coppell and McDermott did things people didn’t like. No one is perfect.

For me Ince has done loads of good and gets a few things wrong. That'll do pet. Oh no, we've had a few pastings! Well we're also looking relatively comfortable in midtable. We got beaten 4-0 and we still got closer to safety at the same time!

His persistence with Rahman is frustrating. Lack of game time for Abrefa, Abbey, Camara and NGW etc is frustrating.

But he is working with a patchwork squad and wants experience, nastiness and graft. I can see why he'd shy away from inexperience.

His best player is his son, who performs best in behind the striker(s). That restricts what he can do with the shape without hurting us elsewhere.

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Re: PInce - Concerns Developing - Is He Confused?

by Royal Rother » 22 Jan 2023 13:18

Overall I’m delighted with the job Ince has done in bringing some stability and fight in the team in very difficult circumstances but I wouldn’t want to part with money to watch them.

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Re: PInce - Concerns Developing - Is He Confused?

by Snowflake Royal » 22 Jan 2023 14:15

On the other hand, I do think it's nonsense to say he doesn’t have a style of play, or to excuse him for not having one almost a year into the job because of transfer embargos.

You don’t need to make expensive signings to have a style of play and instill it.


I think he has imposed a style of play. We play mostly on the counter, at a high tempo, looking to go back to front quickly and fairly direct, whilst being difficult to play against and scrappy. Mostly it's apparent, not all the time though.

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Re: PInce - Concerns Developing - Is He Confused?

by YorkshireRoyal99 » 22 Jan 2023 16:00

Everyone has a style of play, I just think some fans seem to be critical that it's the wrong one. I can understand it's dry, but it is what it is and surely after years of miserable home form we'd be pretty happy with the results we get. Ultimately I do want to see us try and build off the solid foundations we have/are looking to set but try and build into something where we carry a little more threat.

Having said that, everyone rightfully praises Brentford and their football is hardly entertaining. But having a style like that would be fine with me. Win the games, collect points and look to build a successful side.

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Re: PInce - Concerns Developing - Is He Confused?

by Elm Park Kid » 22 Jan 2023 23:42

Obviously talk of sacking PInce now is just a joke. 'Fans' with absolutely no understanding of the game or sense of loyalty. There's no issue with people expressing frustration or criticising what PInce is doing, but at least acknowledge the situation and give the man a fair chance.

Frankly - if all the man did was keep us out of a relegation battle both this season and next then that's good enough for me. People simply don't comprehend the financial gap there is between us and the 'big boys' of the league now.

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Re: PInce - Concerns Developing - Is He Confused?

by Stranded » 23 Jan 2023 08:33

Sacking Ince now after a shocker makes little to no sense and the only people calling for it are those who never wanted the guy in the first place.

He is doing fine, we are doing fine - do I want us to settle for "fine", no of course not, but I accept that fine is good enough for now. Ince does have a style but I'm not convinced it's been fully implemented because of the tools at his disposal - that may well change next year and, assuming we don't suddenly slide to relegation, if it doesn't and we are stuggling next year, then may well be the time to say thanks and move on.

I've seen a lot of people going on about it just being 4 wins in 17 and it is, and that isn't great - bottom 3 form over than time in fact but people choose to ignore that that run was mostly set up by the run of 1 win in 9 up to the Hull game, which included some stupidly tough games and rank bad luck (see Burnley).

Since Hull, we are 9th in the form table with a solid mid-table W3 D2 L3 - Saturday was beyond poor and we need to perform against Watford (any performance v Utd doesn't count) to show that the last 3 halves of football are not how the rest of the year will pan out.

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Re: PInce - Concerns Developing - Is He Confused?

by Hound » 23 Jan 2023 09:02

I think we were always going to hit sticky patches where the limitations of the squad get shown up and we’re in one at the moment

I guess there may be some contractual thing with Baba, but playing him and Hoilett as WBs certainly seem to be the big issue atm. 1 goal and no assists in 40 odd appearances between them this season tells its own story

Not helped with Joao, Ejaria and Meite being pale shadows of their previous selves this season. 3 players who on their day are unplayable and they’ve not really turned up at all

It’s going to be a bit of a grim battle to the end of the year but we should be ok. Got enough experience to keep picking up 3 points here and there. And then start afresh

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