Back from the game

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Schards#2
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by Schards#2 » 27 Aug 2006 10:00

I think it's harsh to criticise Seol as Wigan had two men on him the entire game. Trouble is the others didn't make use of the space they had.

My biggest criticism would be for Lita, if he is giving 100%, he's hides it very well.

Sadly Long isn't going to influence games at this level and if Kitson is out for a while we need to sign a new, tall forward.

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by earley_royals » 27 Aug 2006 10:15

A quite simply awful game yesterday, from which we deserved nothing and got nothing, despite Lita missing a great chance to snatch a point.

We need to bring in at least a couple of new faces this week, if we want to compete week in, week out at this level. Yesterday we brought on Hunt, Oster and Long. Although I think Oster does have the quality to unlock a defence I sometimes think that he does not give 100%. As for Hunt and Long; they are not good enough to come on and turn a Premiership game for you.

Ratings:

Hahnemann 7 - had it not been for him we could have lost 2 or 3 nil.
Murty 6 - Sloppy with his passing at times.
Shorey 6 - His worst game of the season so far.
Ingimarsson 6 - Outpaced a few times by Wigan's strikers.
Sodje 6 - Not ready for this level of football yet. At fault for the goal and pretty awful on the ball. I cringe every time he gets it.
Seol 5 - first bad game from him. Poor delivery and didn't track back. Got booked in the second half for a stupid challenge.
Convey 5 - Not been at his best so far this season, and was pretty non-existant.
Sidwell 8 - Worked hard and looked the only person in the midfield who looked interested.
Harper 5 - Not adapted too well to the Premiership, wants far too much time on the ball.
Lita 5 - Missed a sitter near the end and was lazy throughout.
Doyle 6/7 - Felt sorry for the bloke yesterday. He didn't get any help whatsoever and still kept fighting 'til the final whistle.

Play like that much more this season and we will be relegated without a shadow of a doubt.

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Smoking Kills Dancing Doe
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by Smoking Kills Dancing Doe » 27 Aug 2006 10:45

All summer long people have been sayin how we're too light wait and need to add some muscle to our midfileld, well we haven't and unsurprisingly we're begining to pay the price for it. Wigan easily dominated the whole pitch not giving our players a chance.

Big question marks over Ivar and Harper still for me, absoulute legends for the club, but Ivar's too small and too slow for the Premiership and Harper ended up chasing shadows all day.

We need quality in this week, to actually improve the 1st team and with more about them than Bikey or De La Cruz, or God forbid Michael Dubbery, who I heard someone at the game try and claim we were after.....

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by floyd__streete » 27 Aug 2006 11:10

Absolutely ordinary, and we haven't been absolutely ordinary for a long while now so it was difficult to take. James Harper was the invisible man, the wingers failed to get (m)any decent crosses in, and in fact it was substitute Oster who flung in the first decent centre which Lita missed by a couple of inches.....we could have done with Kitson; you know him, the one who many Nobbers in their infinite wisdom wrote off as not being good enough for this league before he'd even kicked a ball in anger.

I hold out very little hope of an exciting new signing to give us a spark we seem to be missing arriving before deadline day next week so we'll most likely struggle on with this kind of mediocrity until January. Two weeks off now and time for several players in that squad to take a good luck at themselves; I agree with what Huntley said about lack of leadership, I also thought that there was precious little urgency throughout. You can moan at Mike Riley's fussy display all you like (god knows I did) but that is papering over the cracks - on that evidence we won't be good enough.

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by Rev Algenon Stickleback H » 27 Aug 2006 11:35

floyd__streete on that evidence we won't be good enough.

I think we've seen enough to know from just three games that if we play as well as we can, we can win games, but if we are off the pace then we'll struggle. If we are down to 10 men for an hour we'll also find it tough.

Although many think we are capable of staying up, thinking we'd stay up comfortably around 10th was always asking a bit much. We are going to have to work hard for every victory. Anyone who thought different was deluded.

I still think we are better than Sheffield United and Watford, and would be disappointed to finish below either of them. If true, that means we have to be better than just one of the other 17 sides to stay up - hardly an impossible task.


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by Tony Le Mesmer » 27 Aug 2006 12:10

Royalee Sodje:4 - Well out of his depth and not good enough I'm afraid.



Totally agree Royalee. Whilst Sodje put in a commited display he looked totally out of his depth. He isn't even close to being the standard required in the premiership. People need to wake up & realise we are a premiership club, not Championship also rans. He is a player who will do very well in League 1, possibly the championship.

Like someone else posted, he is a waste of wages. We could have used that money to entice a high calibre Centre Back to the club.

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by Irvinchangeyaname » 27 Aug 2006 12:16

Good effort by Sodje but ultimately, at this moment, not good enough. And his challenge in the box worried me greatly. Penalty IMO and he has to learn quickly that that sort of challenge will cost us in the future.

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by Victor Meldrew » 27 Aug 2006 12:17

Before the season started I suggested that we needed at least one new centre-back(a bit obvious),a hold-the-ball-striker to cover any Kitson injuries (not quite so obvious as many posters felt that a Doyle/Lita partnership would work)and a re-think on playing two wingers (less obvious).
Yesterday I felt that the defence actually did o.k.(including Sodje) but had to suffer a tidal wave coming at them for most of the game and we somehow managed to keep the scoreline down to the one goal.
Much of the tidal wave came about because Lita failed to hold the ball up and keep possession and neither of the wingers tracked back enough nor tackled enough to help the defence.
It meant that Sidwell (who had yet another blinder) and Harper (who had an off-day but never hid) had to do all the covering to make up for both Seoul and Convey.
With what we have in terms of current staff I would be looking to play Gunnar in a holding midfield role and foresake one of Seoul or Convey to give us more possession and allow Sidwell or Harper to press further forward and look to play one-twos and a progressive passing game with the front two.
In that way we make better use of the pace of Doyle rather than just
hitting the relentless long-balls.

Ideally we will sign Gravesen for the holding role and Mido for the striker position plus Koumas or Malbranque as an alternative play-maker and Huth at the back and we might then just about have a squad that might not be involved in a relegation scrap.
Yes I know about wages etc and these players might be out of reach but Bolton,Charlton and even Wigan seem able to get a few in with no greater income than we expect to get through the gate plus Premiership charges for programmes,lager and so on(Everything seems to cost at least £3!!!).
Having got a point per game from this "easy" start we need a few more than that from the upcoming "easy" games v Man City and Sheff.Utd before we then come up against the "not-so-easy".

Maybe it's just that I feel as tired as the players looked yesterday but it did feel like a wake-up call at Wigan and it's a very long time before the transfer window opens again so this week looks to be very important for our Premiership future.

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by Finchley Royal » 27 Aug 2006 12:25

Mido, Gravesen and Malbranque just aren't going to happen. Koumas, excellent though he can be on occasion, couldn't justify a starting berth ahead of Convey or Little and, on the evidence of 2 of the 3 games, Seol.

I'd be reluctant to sacrifice a winger to get another defensive midfielder. All our goals have come from wide balls into the box. Seems a bit pointless to nullify our main attacking strength.


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by Victor Meldrew » 27 Aug 2006 13:16

Finchley Royal Mido, Gravesen and Malbranque just aren't going to happen. Koumas, excellent though he can be on occasion, couldn't justify a starting berth ahead of Convey or Little and, on the evidence of 2 of the 3 games, Seol.

I'd be reluctant to sacrifice a winger to get another defensive midfielder. All our goals have come from wide balls into the box. Seems a bit pointless to nullify our main attacking strength.


Finchley,
Those names were just taken at random to illustrate the level that we need to bring in to IMPROVE the side.

It's all very well playing with two wingers and winning but ,particularly away from home,I don't think we can be so cavalier.
Yesterday neither of the wingers contributed anything of note.

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by RG30 » 27 Aug 2006 14:27

If you look at our opening 3 games, the things I've seen suggest that our 1st Eleven is clearly good enough to compete at this level. However, like yesterday for instance when we don't have Kitson/Sonko then we look a poor outfit. Lita suffered yesterday because he didn't have a Kitson type striker to bounce off.

Yesterday we were poor and looked like before Camara went off injured we would struggle with pace at this level.

Seems to be a bit of criticism going for Harper but he's been a great player now for 5 years for us and will improve.

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by Royalee » 27 Aug 2006 14:31

RG30 If you look at our opening 3 games, the things I've seen suggest that our 1st Eleven is clearly good enough to compete at this level. However, like yesterday for instance when we don't have Kitson/Sonko then we look a poor outfit. Lita suffered yesterday because he didn't have a Kitson type striker to bounce off.

Yesterday we were poor and looked like before Camara went off injured we would struggle with pace at this level.

Seems to be a bit of criticism going for Harper but he's been a great player now for 5 years for us and will improve.


Lita suffered yesterday because he didn't f*cking try.

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by Finchley Royal » 27 Aug 2006 14:32

Victor Meldrew
Finchley Royal Mido, Gravesen and Malbranque just aren't going to happen. Koumas, excellent though he can be on occasion, couldn't justify a starting berth ahead of Convey or Little and, on the evidence of 2 of the 3 games, Seol.

I'd be reluctant to sacrifice a winger to get another defensive midfielder. All our goals have come from wide balls into the box. Seems a bit pointless to nullify our main attacking strength.


Finchley,
Those names were just taken at random to illustrate the level that we need to bring in to IMPROVE the side.

It's all very well playing with two wingers and winning but ,particularly away from home,I don't think we can be so cavalier.
Yesterday neither of the wingers contributed anything of note.


Vicky,

It's not too difficult to list players who can improve a side (your reference to Koumas notwithstanding)...

You're right that neither Seol nor Convey contributed anything of note. However, Oster did when he came on and Hunt at least caused some problems by running at people. 3 games into a season when we played well with wingers in 2 of those games seems a bit early to jettison a system which got us up.


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by FiNeRaIn » 27 Aug 2006 14:33

Having had time to calm down over the result, I have come to the following conclusion.

Whilst no excuse we had to play 60 mins with 10 men on wednesday while wigan had a week off, they had more energy than us all day yesterday, and looked sharper. Im not saying this is the sole reasons but it helped them.
Without kitson we had no target man to releave a bit of pressue and pump it long. Everytime we hit lita and he is not going to win anything in the fair against de zeuww. We were poor down the wings and from corners we wanted to run the ball into the box, Seol takes too many touches and should concentrate on early deliveries into the box instead of beating his man 5 times.
If camara had stayed on it would of been worse, he was outpacing the whole backline and making some good runs, this could well be an eye opener for coppell when we play similar strikers that we need someone with a bit of pace at the back, even shorey was done by him.
One thing I noticed was just how fortunate wigan got with where the ball dropped every misplaced pass and loose header's ALWAYS fell to their players and never once to us, one of the most frustrating things i've ever seen, they even pulled off a through ball by hitting one of our players and running through.
Wigan fully deserved the win, no leadership no gameplan from us and literally No idea in defence or attack. Little, kitson and sonko will be back for city and I might well think of starting 2 if not 3 of them.

3 points from 9 isn't great, but its better than some, lets get behind the team for city and if we win there wigan is forgotten. Its been a heavy start to the season 3 games in one week now we have some time to recharge the batteries.

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by Thomas L'Heureux » 27 Aug 2006 14:35

FiNeRaIn Having had time to calm down over the result, I have come to the following conclusion.

Whilst no excuse we had to play 60 mins with 10 men on wednesday while wigan had a week off, they had more energy than us all day yesterday, and looked sharper. Im not saying this is the sole reasons but it helped them.
Without kitson we had no target man to releave a bit of pressue and pump it long. Everytime we hit lita and he is not going to win anything in the fair against de zeuww. We were poor down the wings and from corners we wanted to run the ball into the box, Seol takes too many touches and should concentrate on early deliveries into the box instead of beating his man 5 times.
If camara had stayed on it would of been worse, he was outpacing the whole backline and making some good runs, this could well be an eye opener for coppell when we play similar strikers that we need someone with a bit of pace at the back, even shorey was done by him.
One thing I noticed was just how fortunate wigan got with where the ball dropped every misplaced pass and loose header's ALWAYS fell to their players and never once to us, one of the most frustrating things i've ever seen, they even pulled off a through ball by hitting one of our players and running through.
Wigan fully deserved the win, no leadership no gameplan from us and literally No idea in defence or attack. Little, kitson and sonko will be back for city and I might well think of starting 2 if not 3 of them.

3 points from 9 isn't great, but its better than some, lets get behind the team for city and if we win there wigan is forgotten. Its been a heavy start to the season 3 games in one week now we have some time to recharge the batteries.


I applaud your post, pretty much spot on son.

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by Royalee » 27 Aug 2006 14:37

FiNeRaIn Having had time to calm down over the result, I have come to the following conclusion.

Whilst no excuse we had to play 60 mins with 10 men on wednesday while wigan had a week off, they had more energy than us all day yesterday, and looked sharper. Im not saying this is the sole reasons but it helped them.
Without kitson we had no target man to releave a bit of pressue and pump it long. Everytime we hit lita and he is not going to win anything in the fair against de zeuww. We were poor down the wings and from corners we wanted to run the ball into the box, Seol takes too many touches and should concentrate on early deliveries into the box instead of beating his man 5 times.
If camara had stayed on it would of been worse, he was outpacing the whole backline and making some good runs, this could well be an eye opener for coppell when we play similar strikers that we need someone with a bit of pace at the back, even shorey was done by him.
One thing I noticed was just how fortunate wigan got with where the ball dropped every misplaced pass and loose header's ALWAYS fell to their players and never once to us, one of the most frustrating things i've ever seen, they even pulled off a through ball by hitting one of our players and running through.
Wigan fully deserved the win, no leadership no gameplan from us and literally No idea in defence or attack. Little, kitson and sonko will be back for city and I might well think of starting 2 if not 3 of them.

3 points from 9 isn't great, but its better than some, lets get behind the team for city and if we win there wigan is forgotten. Its been a heavy start to the season 3 games in one week now we have some time to recharge the batteries.


Agree with much of what you say, although I'm concerned that when not at full strength (which will be more than likely very often throughout the season), we don't look competitive enough.

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by Doyler » 27 Aug 2006 15:11

Wigan deserved to win yesterday, we were outmuscled in midfield and struggled to keep the ball. We needed Kitson, especially when that cross just cleared leroy's head, Kits would have scored. Wigan seemed to have a lot more time and space on the ball, while our players seemed to be hassled and harried constantly with no time to play. I think Gunnarsson should have been brought on as he would have helped to win the ball in midfield. We played well the last 20 mins though and were unlucky not to score at the end. I do think we can stay up though if we play to the level we are capable of.
C'mon urz!

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by brendywendy » 27 Aug 2006 15:14

great fight back in teh first game
unlucky with sonks on wednesday, and still looked ok with ten men
out muscled yesterday after 3 games in 8 days, and having given everything against villa
3 points from three games is what we deserve, and to be fair about aqdequate for us at the minute, if that carries on we get 38 points, which may be enough, the team can improve, and if we can strengthen further befor thursday i think ive seen enough to say we can do this.
we are still finding our feet at this level, and weve been exposed with our frailty at the back, the lack of squad depth a couple of times, but after the break we can come back and start to improve.6 points from four after the next game would be a decent start so we cant grumble yet.
wigan played well, cut our wingers out of the game, left our strikers isolated, and as a result were able to muscle us out of the game. unfortunately we are going to get that sometimes, the big teams will out play us, and the lesser teams will occaisionally out battle us,
we do need a plan B, and i would have liked to see someone come in who would challenge for a first team spot at the back, and midfield, and up front if we want to make sure of this before xmas, but if not we just have to remember that winning a third of the games this year will see us safe, so lets not panic cos we lost two away games.

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Re: Back from the game

by Reading Abbey » 27 Aug 2006 15:22

cmonurz
PieEater I'm sure that stats will show we did OK on possession and shots, but only Lita's miss (or gitfaced Kirklands save) was the difference.


Yahoo! Sport:

Possession - Wigan 50.7% Reading 49.3%
Shots - Wigan 14 Reading 5
Shots on target - Wigan 5 Reading 3
Corners - Wigan 4 Reading 10

Worth noting the number of those corners we wasted mind you.


What was it with those stupid short corners? Just get that ball in the box for Christ's sake!!

I thought Sodje did well, but better after Camara went off. Camara had the better of him and it was a relief to that useless pile of shite Connolly (sp?)come on!

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by Rev Algenon Stickleback H » 27 Aug 2006 15:24

how much of the criticism is because we didn't play well, and how much is "because it was wigan"? In a week where there have been endless posts on here complaining about pundits thinking we aren't any good because we are just "little Reading", what exactly was it about the Wigan squad exactly that seemed to have yesterday's game marked down as one of the easier games of the season by so many here?

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