England - the future....

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Re: England - the future....

by South Coast Royal » 19 Dec 2022 11:40

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Agree, I do not get the stupidity of the seedings for the Euros. England are Euro 2020 runners up and are ranked 5 in the world, only behind France and the “dying” Belgians in Europe, yet weren’t considered worthy of being a top seed for the qualifying groups?



Draw is based only on the 2021-22 Nations League, and so our bottom placed finish automatically ranks us behind the likes of Hungary. It's a little silly, but I guess it adds meaning to the Nations League fixtures, which isn't a bad thing.


Utterly ***** ludicrous, while it won’t make any difference to England qualifying I suppose it’s about typical of the way UEFA works in order to trump up the importance of a stupid competition.


We will just have to learn how to beat big teams again and not hope that the good teams get knocked out before the later stages.

This time, once again, we had 4 "easy" games and then got knocked out by one of the better teams.

Let's hope when it comes to the Euros we beat a decent side earlier than normal and go on to win.
BTW, lol @ those going on and on about how our young players will be so much better in 18 months' time.
They might be, and let's hope they are, but our fans always seem to forget that other countries ( look at Spanish and French midfielders for example) also have young players who might well also improve over the same period.

As for Southgate I am neutral about him carrying on-he is clearly a decent bloke but has never won anything.
The idea of having to have an English manager seems nonsense-look at our cricket team where it is usually when we have a foreign coach/manager that we do any good.
Our rowing gold medals came about with a foreign coach and who helped Andy Murray win Wimbledon?
Back to football and a foreign coach got our women to win their Euros when an ex-England male coach failed miserably and is now deemed good enough only for the MLS working for his mate.

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Re: England - the future....

by bcubed » 19 Dec 2022 11:52

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Draw is based only on the 2021-22 Nations League, and so our bottom placed finish automatically ranks us behind the likes of Hungary. It's a little silly, but I guess it adds meaning to the Nations League fixtures, which isn't a bad thing.


Yes And one of several frustrating things about Southgate. His failure to take Nations League seriously is a huge error of judgement


With no friendlies really in the calendar any more, there has to be some wiggle room for managers to try players or formations.


Fair point but he really experimented too much. Given it's importance you just can't do that.

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Re: England - the future....

by YorkshireRoyal99 » 19 Dec 2022 11:54

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Draw is based only on the 2021-22 Nations League, and so our bottom placed finish automatically ranks us behind the likes of Hungary. It's a little silly, but I guess it adds meaning to the Nations League fixtures, which isn't a bad thing.


Utterly ***** ludicrous, while it won’t make any difference to England qualifying I suppose it’s about typical of the way UEFA works in order to trump up the importance of a stupid competition.


We will just have to learn how to beat big teams again and not hope that the good teams get knocked out before the later stages.

This time, once again, we had 4 "easy" games and then got knocked out by one of the better teams.

Let's hope when it comes to the Euros we beat a decent side earlier than normal and go on to win.
BTW, lol @ those going on and on about how our young players will be so much better in 18 months' time.
They might be, and let's hope they are, but our fans always seem to forget that other countries ( look at Spanish and French midfielders for example) also have young players who might well also improve over the same period.

As for Southgate I am neutral about him carrying on-he is clearly a decent bloke but has never won anything.
The idea of having to have an English manager seems nonsense-look at our cricket team where it is usually when we have a foreign coach/manager that we do any good.
Our rowing gold medals came about with a foreign coach and who helped Andy Murray win Wimbledon?
Back to football and a foreign coach got our women to win their Euros when an ex-England male coach failed miserably and is now deemed good enough only for the MLS working for his mate.


Yeah I think we could benefit from a foreign coach as well, there just seems to be this arrogance in football that your national manager has to be from that country as well. I don't think that's just an English thing, I think that's just in European football in general.

I think people forget we beat Germany in Euro 2020, now Germany are not the beast they used to be by any means but that was still us beating a top nation with some top players, just one's that have underperformed significantly in the last few tournaments. I think people make it out as if it's easy to beat top nations though, like it should be a formality. Yes, our record probably should be better for where we are, but these are still good sides that we are losing to. Is there really any shame in losing to France this year, for example? At the time they were the reigning world champions and have just lost in the final on penalties. They are a world class side even with some players missing, they are better than us, there is no shame in admitting that or being edged out by them.

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Re: England - the future....

by Sutekh » 19 Dec 2022 16:37

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Utterly ***** ludicrous, while it won’t make any difference to England qualifying I suppose it’s about typical of the way UEFA works in order to trump up the importance of a stupid competition.


We will just have to learn how to beat big teams again and not hope that the good teams get knocked out before the later stages.

This time, once again, we had 4 "easy" games and then got knocked out by one of the better teams.

Let's hope when it comes to the Euros we beat a decent side earlier than normal and go on to win.
BTW, lol @ those going on and on about how our young players will be so much better in 18 months' time.
They might be, and let's hope they are, but our fans always seem to forget that other countries ( look at Spanish and French midfielders for example) also have young players who might well also improve over the same period.

As for Southgate I am neutral about him carrying on-he is clearly a decent bloke but has never won anything.
The idea of having to have an English manager seems nonsense-look at our cricket team where it is usually when we have a foreign coach/manager that we do any good.
Our rowing gold medals came about with a foreign coach and who helped Andy Murray win Wimbledon?
Back to football and a foreign coach got our women to win their Euros when an ex-England male coach failed miserably and is now deemed good enough only for the MLS working for his mate.


Yeah I think we could benefit from a foreign coach as well, there just seems to be this arrogance in football that your national manager has to be from that country as well. I don't think that's just an English thing, I think that's just in European football in general.

I think people forget we beat Germany in Euro 2020, now Germany are not the beast they used to be by any means but that was still us beating a top nation with some top players, just one's that have underperformed significantly in the last few tournaments. I think people make it out as if it's easy to beat top nations though, like it should be a formality. Yes, our record probably should be better for where we are, but these are still good sides that we are losing to. Is there really any shame in losing to France this year, for example? At the time they were the reigning world champions and have just lost in the final on penalties. They are a world class side even with some players missing, they are better than us, there is no shame in admitting that or being edged out by them.


England have tried that with Ericsson and Capello and it made not the slightest difference, and in some ways could be argued that those appointments were worse than having an English manager. Can’t see Guardiola or Klopp wanting the England job either.

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Re: England - the future....

by YorkshireRoyal99 » 19 Dec 2022 16:44

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We will just have to learn how to beat big teams again and not hope that the good teams get knocked out before the later stages.

This time, once again, we had 4 "easy" games and then got knocked out by one of the better teams.

Let's hope when it comes to the Euros we beat a decent side earlier than normal and go on to win.
BTW, lol @ those going on and on about how our young players will be so much better in 18 months' time.
They might be, and let's hope they are, but our fans always seem to forget that other countries ( look at Spanish and French midfielders for example) also have young players who might well also improve over the same period.

As for Southgate I am neutral about him carrying on-he is clearly a decent bloke but has never won anything.
The idea of having to have an English manager seems nonsense-look at our cricket team where it is usually when we have a foreign coach/manager that we do any good.
Our rowing gold medals came about with a foreign coach and who helped Andy Murray win Wimbledon?
Back to football and a foreign coach got our women to win their Euros when an ex-England male coach failed miserably and is now deemed good enough only for the MLS working for his mate.


Yeah I think we could benefit from a foreign coach as well, there just seems to be this arrogance in football that your national manager has to be from that country as well. I don't think that's just an English thing, I think that's just in European football in general.

I think people forget we beat Germany in Euro 2020, now Germany are not the beast they used to be by any means but that was still us beating a top nation with some top players, just one's that have underperformed significantly in the last few tournaments. I think people make it out as if it's easy to beat top nations though, like it should be a formality. Yes, our record probably should be better for where we are, but these are still good sides that we are losing to. Is there really any shame in losing to France this year, for example? At the time they were the reigning world champions and have just lost in the final on penalties. They are a world class side even with some players missing, they are better than us, there is no shame in admitting that or being edged out by them.


England have tried that with Ericsson and Capello and it made not the slightest difference, and in some ways could be argued that those appointments were worse than having an English manager. Can’t see Guardiola or Klopp wanting the England job either.


True - but it doesn't mean it can't be successful and it doesn't mean that someone like Tuchel couldn't be successful with the players we have. I think as a lot more younger English players start plying their trade abroad, such as Sancho and Bellingham, having a foreign coach might actually be more of a benefit than a hinderance. Not only that, if people want England to be the best, then we need to employ a coach/manager that is in that category. Southgate isn't, nor is any other English manager and that has been the case for probably 30 years now.

I'm not old enough to remember the 80's, but obviously managers like Clough were considered top of the tree in those days. Yes, there would have been a lot of politics around his appointment, but it's believed the FA culture is they just want a "yes man", which Southgate is in nature. I know several people who have met him or have watched him coach and they've said his personality is pleasant yet dour and the one person I know who watched him coach said it was one of the worst sessions they've seen with little more said than "good", "well done" or "nice". No criticism, or even constructive criticism, was offered during the session.


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Re: England - the future....

by Hendo » 19 Dec 2022 16:51

I think Sven is a little harshly looked at when it comes to England.

Yes, we probably under performed with the players he had available but I think there are some mitigating circumstances:

2002 World Cup - lost to eventual winners due to Seaman howler, could argue they would've gone on to win that game as Brazil were down to 10.
2004 Euros - lost to finalists Portugal thanks to a controversial 90th minute goal being ruled out and the team forgetting how to take penalties
2006 World Cup - lost to team who finished 4th thanks to Rooney being sent off and the team forgetting how to take penalties, again.

He took us from 17th to 5th in the world rankings as well.

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Re: England - the future....

by Whore Jackie » 20 Dec 2022 13:34

YorkshireRoyal99 Yes, there would have been a lot of politics around his appointment, but it's believed the FA culture is they just want a "yes man", which Southgate is in nature. I know several people who have met him or have watched him coach and they've said his personality is pleasant yet dour and the one person I know who watched him coach said it was one of the worst sessions they've seen with little more said than "good", "well done" or "nice". No criticism, or even constructive criticism, was offered during the session.


When did this coaching session take place? For the England first-team or before? Plenty of the top managers let their coaches take most of the day-to-day sessions.

The FA may well prefer a yes man, but I'm intrigued why Kane, Maguire and Rice were publicly vocal in their support for Southgate continuing to Euro 24, after the French defeat. Indeed I don't recall one player, even anonymously, asking for a change in management. Pretty sure they just want to win the tournament and don't give a shit about the appointment politics. If they felt Tuchel, or anyone else, gave them a better chance, I very much doubt Southgate would have felt he had the mandate to carry on.

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Re: England - the future....

by YorkshireRoyal99 » 20 Dec 2022 13:52

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YorkshireRoyal99 Yes, there would have been a lot of politics around his appointment, but it's believed the FA culture is they just want a "yes man", which Southgate is in nature. I know several people who have met him or have watched him coach and they've said his personality is pleasant yet dour and the one person I know who watched him coach said it was one of the worst sessions they've seen with little more said than "good", "well done" or "nice". No criticism, or even constructive criticism, was offered during the session.


When did this coaching session take place? For the England first-team or before? Plenty of the top managers let their coaches take most of the day-to-day sessions.

The FA may well prefer a yes man, but I'm intrigued why Kane, Maguire and Rice were publicly vocal in their support for Southgate continuing to Euro 24, after the French defeat. Indeed I don't recall one player, even anonymously, asking for a change in management. Pretty sure they just want to win the tournament and don't give a shit about the appointment politics. If they felt Tuchel, or anyone else, gave them a better chance, I very much doubt Southgate would have felt he had the mandate to carry on.


During his time in the U21 set up. It was one he conducted for people doing an FA level course (can't remember if this was Level 3/4 though). It's a bit dated but it's the best I've got on him.

It's not just solely Southgate's decision though, it's the FA's as well and, if they want a yes man, they won't get rid of Southgate unless there was serious discontent, which there isn't to be fair. But just because there isn't doesn't mean to say it's good enough either. The players won't care about it, but the FA will, that'll be a factor when it comes to managerial decision-making, it's a factor as to why they changed Cappello (along with many other factors granted).

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Re: England - the future....

by Winston Biscuit » 16 Mar 2023 16:44

Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink reportedly about to join the England set up as a coach


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Re: England - the future....

by Dirk Gently » 17 Mar 2023 10:08

YorkshireRoyal99 Yes, there would have been a lot of politics around his appointment, but it's believed the FA culture is they just want a "yes man", which Southgate is in nature. I know several people who have met him or have watched him coach and they've said his personality is pleasant yet dour and the one person I know who watched him coach said it was one of the worst sessions they've seen with little more said than "good", "well done" or "nice". No criticism, or even constructive criticism, was offered during the session.


Late to the party on this, but he sounds just like Steve Coppell, who used to allow the coaches to coach and he'd just watch and take notes - although he'd not always even watch.

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Re: England - the future....

by YorkshireRoyal99 » 17 Mar 2023 16:52

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YorkshireRoyal99 Yes, there would have been a lot of politics around his appointment, but it's believed the FA culture is they just want a "yes man", which Southgate is in nature. I know several people who have met him or have watched him coach and they've said his personality is pleasant yet dour and the one person I know who watched him coach said it was one of the worst sessions they've seen with little more said than "good", "well done" or "nice". No criticism, or even constructive criticism, was offered during the session.


Late to the party on this, but he sounds just like Steve Coppell, who used to allow the coaches to coach and he'd just watch and take notes - although he'd not always even watch.


Mark Noble went on Ben Foster's podcast and said that Sam Allardyce (speaking of national team managers) was like this as well. He said that he'd let his coaches do the work Monday-Wednesday and then Thursday-Friday he'd come out of his office and do the work before games on a Saturday and review on a Sunday.

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Re: England - the future....

by Winston Biscuit » 20 Mar 2023 14:28

Goalkeepers: Jordan Pickford, Fraser Forster, Aaron Ramsdale

Defenders: Ben Chilwell, Eric Dier, Marc Guehi, Reece James, Harry Maguire, Luke Shaw, John Stones, Kieran Trippier, Kyle Walker

Midfielders: Jude Bellingham, Conor Gallagher, Jordan Henderson, James Maddison, Mason Mount, Kalvin Phillips, Declan Rice

Forwards: Phil Foden, Jack Grealish, Harry Kane, Marcus Rashford, Bukayo Saka, Ivan Toney

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Re: England - the future....

by Sutekh » 20 Mar 2023 18:31

Winston Biscuit Goalkeepers: Jordan Pickford, Fraser Forster, Aaron Ramsdale

Defenders: Ben Chilwell, Eric Dier, Marc Guehi, Reece James, Harry Maguire, Luke Shaw, John Stones, Kieran Trippier, Kyle Walker

Midfielders: Jude Bellingham, Conor Gallagher, Jordan Henderson, James Maddison, Mason Mount, Kalvin Phillips, Declan Rice

Forwards: Phil Foden, Jack Grealish, Harry Kane, Marcus Rashford, Bukayo Saka, Ivan Toney


Is Tomori injured or is Southgate just being a plank?


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Re: England - the future....

by NathStPaul » 21 Mar 2023 10:29

Would like to see Marcus Edwards get a chance in the squad. Had a decent couple of seasons in Portugal.

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Re: England - the future....

by bcubed » 23 Mar 2023 19:21

Sutekh
Winston Biscuit Goalkeepers: Jordan Pickford, Fraser Forster, Aaron Ramsdale

Defenders: Ben Chilwell, Eric Dier, Marc Guehi, Reece James, Harry Maguire, Luke Shaw, John Stones, Kieran Trippier, Kyle Walker

Midfielders: Jude Bellingham, Conor Gallagher, Jordan Henderson, James Maddison, Mason Mount, Kalvin Phillips, Declan Rice

Forwards: Phil Foden, Jack Grealish, Harry Kane, Marcus Rashford, Bukayo Saka, Ivan Toney


Is Tomori injured or is Southgate just being a plank?


I'm afraid it's option B
He says Tomori must cut out the errors if he is to earn an England recall.

Guess it doesn't apply to Maguire, as he doesnt get selected enough :roll:

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Re: England - the future....

by Winston Biscuit » 23 Mar 2023 20:00

England 1 up

I really really can't stand Jack Grealish. What an awful approach to football.

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Re: England - the future....

by Loafer » 23 Mar 2023 20:05

how does phillips get into the team

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Re: England - the future....

by LUX » 23 Mar 2023 20:20

Winston Biscuit England 1 up

I really really can't stand Jack Grealish. What an awful approach to football.


Show pony.

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Re: England - the future....

by Winston Biscuit » 23 Mar 2023 20:23

LUX
Winston Biscuit England 1 up

I really really can't stand Jack Grealish. What an awful approach to football.


Show pony.


Constantly opts against passing to a team mate in a good position in the hope that if he wanders around with the ball a bit longer someone might kick him. What a horribly negative approach to the game. Genuinely infuriates me watching him.

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Re: England - the future....

by Ascotexgunner » 23 Mar 2023 21:10

Winston Biscuit
LUX
Winston Biscuit England 1 up

I really really can't stand Jack Grealish. What an awful approach to football.


Show pony.


Constantly opts against passing to a team mate in a good position in the hope that if he wanders around with the ball a bit longer someone might kick him. What a horribly negative approach to the game. Genuinely infuriates me watching him.


He is utterly shit in front of goal. Misses a lot for City. To not hit the target and finish this game off as well.....now England on the back foot. This is where Southgate as a manger fails miserably.
England have played so well up until Italy scored.

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