Qatar Hero - The World Cup 2022 thread

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Hendo
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Re: Qatar Hero - The World Cup 2022 thread

by Hendo » 29 Nov 2022 14:08

bcubed Sounds like Foden Rashford Henderson and Kyle Walker will all play


Foden for Sterling
Rashford for Saka
Henderson for Bellingham
Walker for Trippier

I guess?

I don't mind Foden, Rashford or Walker, but the Henderson one is a little bit of a head-scratcher. Unless its Henderson for Mount, I wouldn't mind that so much.

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Re: Qatar Hero - The World Cup 2022 thread

by Hendo » 29 Nov 2022 14:11

Greatwesternline
YorkshireRoyal99 I think it's just a case of those sides mentioned, Iran, Japan, Saudi Arabia and Morocco aren't that bad. As mentioned, if you're in the top sort of 25 in the world, you clearly aren't a bad side and I think there is an element of European arrogance because they are playing against a lot of dross, such as China in Asia or Tanzania in Africa. But there is still a lot of dross in Europe as well, but probably to a lesser extent by proportion.

Not all the teams that didn't qualify from Africa are dross though. For example, think of the likes of Ivory Coast and Algeria who would likely be fairly competitive sides and maybe not much worser (if at all) to sides in Europe that didn't qualify like Sweden.

These sides might be beating "a lot of dross", but there's obviously a reason why they are where they are. The world rankings shouldn't be taken as gospel obviously, but I'd say they give a fairly decent indicator of the strength of most sides.

There are probably a lot more psychological and political factors as well for some players playing in Africa and Asia, which is why I like the World Cup as it gives it that unique feel and there is something special about Morocco packing the terraces and generating an atmosphere similar to a home game as well as Ghana celebrating goals as if they've won the World Cup etc.


Many of Japan's players play in the Bundesliga. Itso facto they are extremely accomplished footballers. The medium ranked teams are probably getting better at the organisational side of the game.

I think relatively, the less good teams are getting better quicker than the best teams. Football is a game of tight margins, Germany created 4 massive chances and should have been about 3 or 4 goals up when Japan scored.

Teams which can put out more than half players from top european leagues can be seen to be about as good as a mid table PL or Bundesliga team. Sometimes Bundesliga teams cause an upset against Bayern.

In the future, you would imagine countries with big populations will begin to be as good as the traditional countries. Japan as a developed country with massive population is perhaps only 30 years away from being very good at football. Football has taken on a bigger part of life throughout the world compared to the world of football up until perhaps 15-20 years ago.


I've said it before, but I am always amazed at how meh Mexico are compared to the size of their country/their heritage. Country of nearly 130 million people.

I do understand that a lot of people live in poverty.

South Africa is another one, although slightly more understandable when you consider both cricket and rugby would take prominence and football is played by mostly black people, who are again, mostly living in poverty.

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Re: Qatar Hero - The World Cup 2022 thread

by bcubed » 29 Nov 2022 14:12

Hendo
bcubed Sounds like Foden Rashford Henderson and Kyle Walker will all play


Foden for Sterling
Rashford for Saka
Henderson for Bellingham
Walker for Trippier

I guess?

I don't mind Foden, Rashford or Walker, but the Henderson one is a little bit of a head-scratcher. Unless its Henderson for Mount, I wouldn't mind that so much.


You’d think so

Don’t mind any of them and agree with you, keep Bellingham over Mount

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Re: Qatar Hero - The World Cup 2022 thread

by Royal Rother » 29 Nov 2022 14:21

I suppose Maddison will come on with 5 mins to play. :|

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Re: Qatar Hero - The World Cup 2022 thread

by YorkshireRoyal99 » 29 Nov 2022 14:58

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YorkshireRoyal99 I think it's just a case of those sides mentioned, Iran, Japan, Saudi Arabia and Morocco aren't that bad. As mentioned, if you're in the top sort of 25 in the world, you clearly aren't a bad side and I think there is an element of European arrogance because they are playing against a lot of dross, such as China in Asia or Tanzania in Africa. But there is still a lot of dross in Europe as well, but probably to a lesser extent by proportion.

Not all the teams that didn't qualify from Africa are dross though. For example, think of the likes of Ivory Coast and Algeria who would likely be fairly competitive sides and maybe not much worser (if at all) to sides in Europe that didn't qualify like Sweden.

These sides might be beating "a lot of dross", but there's obviously a reason why they are where they are. The world rankings shouldn't be taken as gospel obviously, but I'd say they give a fairly decent indicator of the strength of most sides.

There are probably a lot more psychological and political factors as well for some players playing in Africa and Asia, which is why I like the World Cup as it gives it that unique feel and there is something special about Morocco packing the terraces and generating an atmosphere similar to a home game as well as Ghana celebrating goals as if they've won the World Cup etc.


Many of Japan's players play in the Bundesliga. Itso facto they are extremely accomplished footballers. The medium ranked teams are probably getting better at the organisational side of the game.

I think relatively, the less good teams are getting better quicker than the best teams. Football is a game of tight margins, Germany created 4 massive chances and should have been about 3 or 4 goals up when Japan scored.

Teams which can put out more than half players from top european leagues can be seen to be about as good as a mid table PL or Bundesliga team. Sometimes Bundesliga teams cause an upset against Bayern.

In the future, you would imagine countries with big populations will begin to be as good as the traditional countries. Japan as a developed country with massive population is perhaps only 30 years away from being very good at football. Football has taken on a bigger part of life throughout the world compared to the world of football up until perhaps 15-20 years ago.


Yes can completely understand why they are where they are, if they have players playing at the top level of football, they are going to be competitive against sides, even top nations. As you mention, it's only like Mainz playing Bayern, for arguments sake, Bayern would inevitably be favourites and in a lot of scenarios would likely win, but that doesn't mean to say Mainz can't, at minimum, compete with them and get a result on the likely minority of occasions.

I do think it's true that the top players in a lot of cases do tend to play in Europe, but I think that's a trend that is (slowly) beginning to shift. I listened to an interesting piece earlier about the myth of South America. It basically stated that many top European teams would wait for South American's to prove themselves in a more competitive league than the Brazilian one, such as the Portuguese league. However, Man City have bypassed this by going and directly buying both Gabriel Jesus and Julian Alvarez (plus a couple of others at other clubs like Martinelli to Arsenal), who were categorically the best players in the country at the time. These aren't exactly considered exceptions to the rule, but I think it's showing a shifting trend in the strength of leagues outside of Europe. There are also plenty of other examples outside the Premier League as well i.e. Neymar, Vinicious Jr etc.


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Re: Qatar Hero - The World Cup 2022 thread

by Greatwesternline » 29 Nov 2022 15:09

YorkshireRoyal99
Yes can completely understand why they are where they are, if they have players playing at the top level of football, they are going to be competitive against sides, even top nations. As you mention, it's only like Mainz playing Bayern, for arguments sake, Bayern would inevitably be favourites and in a lot of scenarios would likely win, but that doesn't mean to say Mainz can't, at minimum, compete with them and get a result on the likely minority of occasions.

I do think it's true that the top players in a lot of cases do tend to play in Europe, but I think that's a trend that is (slowly) beginning to shift. I listened to an interesting piece earlier about the myth of South America. It basically stated that many top European teams would wait for South American's to prove themselves in a more competitive league than the Brazilian one, such as the Portuguese league. However, Man City have bypassed this by going and directly buying both Gabriel Jesus and Julian Alvarez (plus a couple of others at other clubs like Martinelli to Arsenal), who were categorically the best players in the country at the time. These aren't exactly considered exceptions to the rule, but I think it's showing a shifting trend in the strength of leagues outside of Europe. There are also plenty of other examples outside the Premier League as well i.e. Neymar, Vinicious Jr etc.


Watching the Saudi Arabia game i thought, these attacking wide players are better than what Reading have, why dont championship sides come in for them. They all play in Saudi Arabia. But then thinking about it, maybe Saudi Arabia pays better. Its fabulously rich and i imagine home grown sports starts are quite the catch for corporations.

With the amount of money in the european game, you'd imagine the global scouting networks should identify nearly all global talent. And you only need 16 elite footballers within your population to compete. The only real thing that must hold back african countries with european sized populations is that talent goes undeveloped because life doesnt allow for all talents to be spotted and to pursue a career of professional sport.

I'm guessing unless you are incredibly exceptional and live in a big city by the time you are a young teenager in a developing country your talent will never have been known spotted, or developed.

Surely a country like China will in time, become a football power house.

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Re: Qatar Hero - The World Cup 2022 thread

by Silver Fox » 29 Nov 2022 15:12

Looking very much like ECU v SEN was the correct choice

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Re: Qatar Hero - The World Cup 2022 thread

by YorkshireRoyal99 » 29 Nov 2022 15:24

Greatwesternline
YorkshireRoyal99
Yes can completely understand why they are where they are, if they have players playing at the top level of football, they are going to be competitive against sides, even top nations. As you mention, it's only like Mainz playing Bayern, for arguments sake, Bayern would inevitably be favourites and in a lot of scenarios would likely win, but that doesn't mean to say Mainz can't, at minimum, compete with them and get a result on the likely minority of occasions.

I do think it's true that the top players in a lot of cases do tend to play in Europe, but I think that's a trend that is (slowly) beginning to shift. I listened to an interesting piece earlier about the myth of South America. It basically stated that many top European teams would wait for South American's to prove themselves in a more competitive league than the Brazilian one, such as the Portuguese league. However, Man City have bypassed this by going and directly buying both Gabriel Jesus and Julian Alvarez (plus a couple of others at other clubs like Martinelli to Arsenal), who were categorically the best players in the country at the time. These aren't exactly considered exceptions to the rule, but I think it's showing a shifting trend in the strength of leagues outside of Europe. There are also plenty of other examples outside the Premier League as well i.e. Neymar, Vinicious Jr etc.


Watching the Saudi Arabia game i thought, these attacking wide players are better than what Reading have, why dont championship sides come in for them. They all play in Saudi Arabia. But then thinking about it, maybe Saudi Arabia pays better. Its fabulously rich and i imagine home grown sports starts are quite the catch for corporations.

With the amount of money in the european game, you'd imagine the global scouting networks should identify nearly all global talent. And you only need 16 elite footballers within your population to compete. The only real thing that must hold back african countries with european sized populations is that talent goes undeveloped because life doesnt allow for all talents to be spotted and to pursue a career of professional sport.

I'm guessing unless you are incredibly exceptional and live in a big city by the time you are a young teenager in a developing country your talent will never have been known spotted, or developed.

Surely a country like China will in time, become a football power house.


Yep, agree. I think a lot of it can be difficult not just because of finances, but because players just don't want to move from the clubs they are at, and they probably are being paid a significant amount more than what a lot of Championship clubs and potentially even some PL clubs will be willing to pay.

I do actually think there is an unwillingness for some clubs to scout that far. Take Reading as the example, we probably only have a handful of scouts available to do what they need to do, why go and scout places like Iran, Morocco etc for players that might be good enough, when there will be a much easier (and cheaper) cost in England where the hit rate and knowledge level will be far better. For clubs like Man City that are capable of touching every corner of the earth, that's fine, but the quality of player available probably doesn't match what they are wanting in a lot of cases.

I think there is probably only a small window of clubs in England where the cost of the scouting, quality of the player and availability (in terms of willingness to join, matching wage demands etc) would make it worthwhile. But these same clubs have probably said, "why bother dropping into these areas when we could use this more effectively in better developed footballing countries in Europe".

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Re: Qatar Hero - The World Cup 2022 thread

by 6ft Kerplunk » 29 Nov 2022 15:29

Silver Fox Looking very much like ECU v SEN was the correct choice

I know ITV just generally get football wrong but why are they showing the dead rubber as their main match on ITV1 and the match that matters on ITV4?


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Re: Qatar Hero - The World Cup 2022 thread

by Sutekh » 29 Nov 2022 15:32

genome Kinda a shame that I won't really watch USA vs Iran as there's going to be a lot of needle in that one


Why not watch it, be a damned sight more entertaining than yet another probable Gareth Southgate borefest.

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Re: Qatar Hero - The World Cup 2022 thread

by Silver Fox » 29 Nov 2022 15:35

6ft Kerplunk
Silver Fox Looking very much like ECU v SEN was the correct choice

I know ITV just generally get football wrong but why are they showing the dead rubber as their main match on ITV1 and the match that matters on ITV4?


I assume it's because they've heard of the Dutch. i didn't watch all of the build up (obvs) but it was the same on both channels and seemed to only be about the Netherlands :|

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Re: Qatar Hero - The World Cup 2022 thread

by Hendo » 29 Nov 2022 15:36

6ft Kerplunk
Silver Fox Looking very much like ECU v SEN was the correct choice

I know ITV just generally get football wrong but why are they showing the dead rubber as their main match on ITV1 and the match that matters on ITV4?


I guess it would probably be due to pre-tournament agreements with advertisers. A match involving NL is likely to get more general viewers, plus those of a Dutch or Qatari nationality watching v watching Ecuador/Senegal.

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Re: Qatar Hero - The World Cup 2022 thread

by Sutekh » 29 Nov 2022 15:44

Ecuador 0-1 Senegal, almost HT

Think I’d rather England got Senegal than Ecuador in the last 16 (presuming England top their group of course).


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Re: Qatar Hero - The World Cup 2022 thread

by fartdad » 29 Nov 2022 15:51

Handbags :shock:

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Re: Qatar Hero - The World Cup 2022 thread

by Silver Fox » 29 Nov 2022 15:58

Half time analysis in SEN v ECU is.....highlights of NED v QAT :|

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Re: Qatar Hero - The World Cup 2022 thread

by Sutekh » 29 Nov 2022 16:17

Silver Fox Half time analysis in SEN v ECU is.....highlights of NED v QAT :|


Was half time analysis in NED v QAT highlights of ECU v SEN?

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Re: Qatar Hero - The World Cup 2022 thread

by Silver Fox » 29 Nov 2022 16:26

Sutekh
Silver Fox Half time analysis in SEN v ECU is.....highlights of NED v QAT :|


Was half time analysis in NED v QAT highlights of ECU v SEN?


It was not

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Re: Qatar Hero - The World Cup 2022 thread

by Sutekh » 29 Nov 2022 16:36

When did Nelson, the landlord of the pub in Life on Mars/Ashes to Ashes, get the Senegal manager gig?

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Re: Qatar Hero - The World Cup 2022 thread

by Hendo » 29 Nov 2022 16:46




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Re: Qatar Hero - The World Cup 2022 thread

by Loafer » 29 Nov 2022 17:05

Hendo


that isnt racist :|

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