VAR

[Sanguine]

I'm certainly interested* to know how Coote answers Liverpool's question as to which part of Mane's body was offside. For a start the line on the official VAR screenshot is joined to arm, from which you can't score.

His shoulder was clearly off.

Give it a rest.

[Silver Fox]

I thought Mane's "offside" looked like the system can't have lines on top of each other so it has to put the red line in front of the blue. I don't know if this is actually the case* but they're not exactly transparent in how the system works so it wouldn't surprise me.

*If only we had an expert on here who could explain the system

[From Despair To Where?]

To be honest, whether Mane was offside or not, it wasn't exactly a clear and obvious error by the official, unless of course they are no longer flagging, safe in the knowledge that VAR will make the decision for them.

I just don't think VAR should be used to scrutinise to that degree.

Why don't FIFA introduce a flag system like the NFL? 2 flags per game. If the decision goes your way, you don't lose your flag?

[BR0B0T]

To be honest, whether Mane was offside or not, it wasn't exactly a clear and obvious error by the official, unless of course they are no longer flagging, safe in the knowledge that VAR will make the decision for them.

I just don't think VAR should be used to scrutinise to that degree.

Why don't FIFA introduce a flag system like the NFL? 2 flags per game. If the decision goes your way, you don't lose your flag?

offside is objective as defined by the rules

those rules are never going to satisfy everyone tho

[From Despair To Where?]

I agree and there's a big difference between an obvious mistake and real time human error. In other sports, technology is used to rule out obvious mistakes or it defers to the on field decision. Where an offside is being measured in millimetres, its clearly too fine a margin to be perceptible with the human eye so its not an obvious mistake.

[BR0B0T]

I agree and there's a big difference between an obvious mistake and real time human error. In other sports, technology is used to rule out obvious mistakes or it defers to the on field decision. Where an offside is being measured in millimetres, its clearly too fine a margin to be perceptible with the human eye so its not an obvious mistake.

that would be gr8 if the press didn't release pictures the next day showing how officials got it wrong

[From Despair To Where?]

Refs have always made incorrect decisions which is why the process should be put in the hands of the managers, not a blanket scrutiny of every decision. Give them 2 appeals per game, if they are successful, they keep the appeal.

[Hendo]

Refs have always made incorrect decisions which is why the process should be put in the hands of the managers, not a blanket scrutiny of every decision. Give them 2 appeals per game, if they are successful, they keep the appeal.

I think it works well in the NFL, agreed.

[From Despair To Where?]

Again, much like the NFL, the ref should have free reign to refer to VAR if he's unsure but a decision to refer to VAR must be made from the pitch.

The other thing with the NFL is that when contentious decisions are made, the Officials' Commissioner will come out and explain decisions. There is complete transparency. Again in cricket, you hear the live feed of the Video Umpire explaining his decision.

[Sanguine]

Again, much like the NFL, the ref should have free reign to refer to VAR if he's unsure but a decision to refer to VAR must be made from the pitch.

The other thing with the NFL is that when contentious decisions are made, the Officials' Commissioner will come out and explain decisions. There is complete transparency. Again in cricket, you hear the live feed of the Video Umpire explaining his decision.

^That. Compare that to football where priority appears to be to protect the on-field referee, however poor his mistake.

[Sutekh]

To be honest, whether Mane was offside or not, it wasn't exactly a clear and obvious error by the official, unless of course they are no longer flagging, safe in the knowledge that VAR will make the decision for them.

I just don't think VAR should be used to scrutinise to that degree.

Why don't FIFA introduce a flag system like the NFL? 2 flags per game. If the decision goes your way, you don't lose your flag?

offside is objective as defined by the rules

those rules are never going to satisfy everyone tho

I remember the days when the law was simply that a player is considered offside unless two players of the opposing team are in front of him (including goalkeeper). Seemed quite straight forward to me and everyone knew where they stood.

Since the late 90s though FIFA have kept trying to fix something that was never broken in the first place and in doing so introduced all these ridiculous ideas, like active and non active and counting it down to which part of the body of the player accused of being offside is offside, and then they wonder why you get all these stupid calls being made because everyone looking at things to the nth degree has a different subjective view.

Brian Clough always said if a player isn’t interfering with play then what the **** is he doing on the pitch?

[From Despair To Where?]

Is it causing this much controversy in other countries and if not, what are we doing differently?

[Stranded]

Is it causing this much controversy in other countries and if not, what are we doing differently?

It's not over here as it simply isn't poured over by the press constantly. Errors are of course discussed but with the view that you are never going to get rid of mistakes but there are less now and that's positive.

[Simmops]

Is it causing this much controversy in other countries and if not, what are we doing differently?

It's because they didn't listen to me and our presentation

[From Despair To Where?]

Is that because you wittered on about craft burgers for an hour?

[Simmops]

Is that because you wittered on about craft burgers for an hour?

No. They just had an idea of what they wanted to do and wouldn't listen when we said that it wouldn't work because of the limitations

[Snowflake Royal]

Also - lots of calls this morning having ref's mic'd up etc - not a chance in high hell that will happen whilst players continue to talk to referee's like absolute dog turds.

Maybe the refs should do something about it then. The dissent push went nowhere.

If you allow players to talk shit they won't stop on their own.

Half of the problem is refs failing to enforce rules that exist and allowing their authority to erode over decades.

Same with diving, feigning injury etc. They've got the tools, use them.

[BR0B0T]

Also - lots of calls this morning having ref's mic'd up etc - not a chance in high hell that will happen whilst players continue to talk to referee's like absolute dog turds.

Maybe the refs should do something about it then. The dissent push went nowhere.

If you allow players to talk shit they won't stop on their own.

Half of the problem is refs failing to enforce rules that exist and allowing their authority to erode over decades.

Same with diving, feigning injury etc. They've got the tools, use them.

football is a working-class sport

the working-class are absolutely awful

[Sanguine]

Half of the problem is refs failing to enforce rules that exist and allowing their authority to erode over decades.

Same with diving, feigning injury etc. They've got the tools, use them.

100%. Completely agree. I'm sure there are better examples, but a few years back referees clamped down on wrestling in the box - there were a few penalties every week for it and lo and behold it disappeared for a season or so. We've seen diving and play-acting if not eradicated by VAR then significantly reduced.

It's one thing to say that refs can't be mic'd up as it stands, and I'd probably agree from a broadcasting perspective, but a couple of red cards for telling the ref to 'fcuk off!', which you can clearly lip read ten times a game, would quickly change that.

[Snowflake Royal]

Half of the problem is refs failing to enforce rules that exist and allowing their authority to erode over decades.

Same with diving, feigning injury etc. They've got the tools, use them.

100%. Completely agree. I'm sure there are better examples, but a few years back referees clamped down on wrestling in the box - there were a few penalties every week for it and lo and behold it disappeared for a season or so. We've seen diving and play-acting if not eradicated by VAR then significantly reduced.

It's one thing to say that refs can't be mic'd up as it stands, and I'd probably agree from a broadcasting perspective, but a couple of red cards for telling the ref to 'fcuk off!', which you can clearly lip read ten times a game, would quickly change that.

Mic them up and the clubs and broadcasters would quickly clamp down.