VAR

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Pepe the Horseman
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Re: VAR

by Pepe the Horseman » 24 Oct 2020 22:38

Jesus wept, that Sheff Utd pen. Not a foul and not in the box. Isn't var there to stop shit decisions like that?

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Re: VAR

by Franchise FC » 25 Oct 2020 08:59

Pepe the Horseman Jesus wept, that Sheff Utd pen. Not a foul and not in the box. Isn't var there to stop shit decisions like that?

That, and the Maguire incident, will mean that we get an apology for the PMGOL (??) for being complete twats........ AGAIN !!

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Re: VAR

by South Coast Royal » 25 Oct 2020 11:10

I'm glad that it was a posting by an unbiased contributor about the Sheff Utd penalty and not just Liverpool fans whingeing again. :wink:
Following on from the "offside" v Everton and the blind eye turned in that game regarding Pickford those same fans ,with tier 3 lockdown as well , might actually start to feel the victims that many other so-called fans accuse them of being.

Still, joint top this morning can't be too bad when supposedly they are doomed to failure this season.

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BR0B0T
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Re: VAR

by BR0B0T » 25 Oct 2020 16:25

Pepe the Horseman Jesus wept, that Sheff Utd pen. Not a foul and not in the box. Isn't var there to stop shit decisions like that?


are you high?!!

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Re: VAR

by Sutekh » 25 Oct 2020 17:46

Pepe the Horseman Jesus wept, that Sheff Utd pen. Not a foul and not in the box. Isn't var there to stop shit decisions like that?


Liverpool really have suffered with VAR over two successive games now. Pickford not sent off, Mane’s perfectly good winner ruled out and then SheffU rewarded for a player falling down outside the box.


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Re: VAR

by URZZZZ » 25 Oct 2020 21:13

Noticed not a single Leicester played appealed for the offside goal tonight for Arsenal

Same old, same old VAR, ridiculous

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Re: VAR

by Simmops » 25 Oct 2020 21:17

URZZZZ Noticed not a single Leicester played appealed for the offside goal tonight for Arsenal

Same old, same old VAR, ridiculous


If only the fa listened and implemented what we had in rugby, it would have been a whole lot better

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Re: VAR

by Sanguine » 26 Oct 2020 09:15

We've ended up in a situation where now instead of referees not being accountable for their decisions, it is VAR that is not. Where is the official statement on the Pickford incident? And the Maguire foul? Where is the acknowledgement that the VAR referee got it wrong? Or an explanation as to why he didn't?

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Re: VAR

by Sutekh » 26 Oct 2020 09:41

Sanguine We've ended up in a situation where now instead of referees not being accountable for their decisions, it is VAR that is not. Where is the official statement on the Pickford incident? And the Maguire foul? Where is the acknowledgement that the VAR referee got it wrong? Or an explanation as to why he didn't?



It was all so much better when officials simply had to make a snap decision, if they got it wrong after the event you could usually understand why and be more accepting of it.

Now you get these endless camera angles for someone hidden away somewhere to look at and make a subjective decision which often is still not correct (mind you those decisions are also not helped by FIFA continually piddling about by uneccessarily introducing clarification into laws in an effort to clarify things that never really needed clarification until they start the clarification).


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Re: VAR

by Old Man Andrews » 26 Oct 2020 09:48

Sutekh
Sanguine We've ended up in a situation where now instead of referees not being accountable for their decisions, it is VAR that is not. Where is the official statement on the Pickford incident? And the Maguire foul? Where is the acknowledgement that the VAR referee got it wrong? Or an explanation as to why he didn't?



It was all so much better when officials simply had to make a snap decision, if they got it wrong after the event you could usually understand why and be more accepting of it.

Now you get these endless camera angles for someone hidden away somewhere to look at and make a subjective decision which often is still not correct (mind you those decisions are also not helped by FIFA continually piddling about by uneccessarily introducing clarification into laws in an effort to clarify things that never really needed clarification until they start the clarification).

I'd like the VAR referee to only be allowed 30 seconds to make a decision. Have a countdown clock in the corner of the screen or on the stadium screens once supporters are back in the grounds. If a definitive decision cannot be reached in that time then we stay with the on field decision. If something is clear and obvious then it should be established in 30 seconds imo. Lets get rid of the overturning of offside calls that need multiple lines drawn or 3 minutes to decide, that just isn't football.

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Re: VAR

by URZZZZ » 26 Oct 2020 11:01

Old Man Andrews
Sutekh
Sanguine We've ended up in a situation where now instead of referees not being accountable for their decisions, it is VAR that is not. Where is the official statement on the Pickford incident? And the Maguire foul? Where is the acknowledgement that the VAR referee got it wrong? Or an explanation as to why he didn't?



It was all so much better when officials simply had to make a snap decision, if they got it wrong after the event you could usually understand why and be more accepting of it.

Now you get these endless camera angles for someone hidden away somewhere to look at and make a subjective decision which often is still not correct (mind you those decisions are also not helped by FIFA continually piddling about by uneccessarily introducing clarification into laws in an effort to clarify things that never really needed clarification until they start the clarification).

I'd like the VAR referee to only be allowed 30 seconds to make a decision. Have a countdown clock in the corner of the screen or on the stadium screens once supporters are back in the grounds. If a definitive decision cannot be reached in that time then we stay with the on field decision. If something is clear and obvious then it should be established in 30 seconds imo. Lets get rid of the overturning of offside calls that need multiple lines drawn or 3 minutes to decide, that just isn't football.


Personally think that’s too long

VAR should be used primarily for offsides IMO. Because an offside has a definitive conclusion, whereas you can’t physically prove something is a foul for example

And then when it’s used for offsides, give them 15/20 seconds to make a conclusion. If you’re wasting time drawing lines and spending 2 minutes making a decision, it’s not clear and obvious so move on

Now whether they could incorporate an appeal sort of thing like they do in cricket is another thing but it’s becoming increasingly obvious that it just simply isn’t working and something has to change

Many people have stated there’s a lot more goals in the Prem than normal. How much do we put that down to endless penalties being awarded for things that aren’t penalties?

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Re: VAR

by Sanguine » 26 Oct 2020 11:26

Ooh, a maths question. I like.

There's two things going on with penalties. First, that more are being awarded. Second, that the continual 'refinement' of rules around the penalty kick are making them near impossible to keep out.

So first, number of penalties, 30 so far this season in roughly six rounds of games, which is one every two games.
Broadly there have been on average 90 penalties per season for the last few years, which is less than one every four games.

On success from the spot, 26 of those 30 penalties have been scored, a rate of 87%. Scoring rates in the previous five seasons - 78%, 82%, 70%, 76%, 81%, 76%. 2017-18 a bit of an outlier, so let's say an average success rate of 79%.

So at this stage of the season, after six rounds, you'd expect 14 penalties to have been awarded, and 11 of them scored. So VAR and the rules have 'added' 15 successful penalties.

On to goals. Worth a note that after the international break, goals have settled down with 44 in the 18 games since, more in line with the longer-term average. But that aside, last six seasons in the PL - 2.82 per game, 2.68, 2.80, 2.70, 2.56, 2.76. Average of 2.72 per game. This season, 192 goals in 56 games played so far, 3.43 goals per game.

So against the long-term average, we have seen 40 goals more so far this season than we would have expected, of which 15 may be considered the impact of VAR/rules changes on penalties.

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Re: VAR

by Simmops » 26 Oct 2020 11:32

All you need to do is implement a 15 second time limit otherwise the original decision stands. If the VAR cannot decide ask the ref to go to the monitor for 15 seconds and decide.


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Re: VAR

by Silver Fox » 26 Oct 2020 11:45

And yet VAR couldn't spot Maguire putting a choke hold on Azpliacueta (I'm not even trying tbf)

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Re: VAR

by South Coast Royal » 26 Oct 2020 11:47

Sanguine Ooh, a maths question. I like.

There's two things going on with penalties. First, that more are being awarded. Second, that the continual 'refinement' of rules around the penalty kick are making them near impossible to keep out.

So first, number of penalties, 30 so far this season in roughly six rounds of games, which is one every two games.
Broadly there have been on average 90 penalties per season for the last few years, which is less than one every four games.

On success from the spot, 26 of those 30 penalties have been scored, a rate of 87%. Scoring rates in the previous five seasons - 78%, 82%, 70%, 76%, 81%, 76%. 2017-18 a bit of an outlier, so let's say an average success rate of 79%.

So at this stage of the season, after six rounds, you'd expect 14 penalties to have been awarded, and 11 of them scored. So VAR and the rules have 'added' 15 successful penalties.

On to goals. Worth a note that after the international break, goals have settled down with 44 in the 18 games since, more in line with the longer-term average. But that aside, last six seasons in the PL - 2.82 per game, 2.68, 2.80, 2.70, 2.56, 2.76. Average of 2.72 per game. This season, 192 goals in 56 games played so far, 3.43 goals per game.

So against the long-term average, we have seen 40 goals more so far this season than we would have expected, of which 15 may be considered the impact of VAR/rules changes on penalties.


Thanks for the info on penalties scored this season-it has felt each time when watching that a goal will be scored.
It might also be interesting to know how many of the penalty-takers are English because in the past it seems as though both at League and International levels foreign players don't have the hang-ups that we have and expect to score.

Hopefully our lads are getting better so when the big tournaments come around we won't be forever expecting the worst when a penalty shoot-out is about to happen.

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Re: VAR

by URZZZZ » 26 Oct 2020 11:53

South Coast Royal
Sanguine Ooh, a maths question. I like.

There's two things going on with penalties. First, that more are being awarded. Second, that the continual 'refinement' of rules around the penalty kick are making them near impossible to keep out.

So first, number of penalties, 30 so far this season in roughly six rounds of games, which is one every two games.
Broadly there have been on average 90 penalties per season for the last few years, which is less than one every four games.

On success from the spot, 26 of those 30 penalties have been scored, a rate of 87%. Scoring rates in the previous five seasons - 78%, 82%, 70%, 76%, 81%, 76%. 2017-18 a bit of an outlier, so let's say an average success rate of 79%.

So at this stage of the season, after six rounds, you'd expect 14 penalties to have been awarded, and 11 of them scored. So VAR and the rules have 'added' 15 successful penalties.

On to goals. Worth a note that after the international break, goals have settled down with 44 in the 18 games since, more in line with the longer-term average. But that aside, last six seasons in the PL - 2.82 per game, 2.68, 2.80, 2.70, 2.56, 2.76. Average of 2.72 per game. This season, 192 goals in 56 games played so far, 3.43 goals per game.

So against the long-term average, we have seen 40 goals more so far this season than we would have expected, of which 15 may be considered the impact of VAR/rules changes on penalties.


Thanks for the info on penalties scored this season-it has felt each time when watching that a goal will be scored.
It might also be interesting to know how many of the penalty-takers are English because in the past it seems as though both at League and International levels foreign players don't have the hang-ups that we have and expect to score.

Hopefully our lads are getting better so when the big tournaments come around we won't be forever expecting the worst when a penalty shoot-out is about to happen.


Echo that sentiment, interesting stats

It did seem that there were less penalties this weekend than any other so far (could be wrong there)

Perhaps there’s an element of refs being told to cut down on the number of penalties being given? Would go a long way to explaining the Maguire and Azpilicueta incident although countered by the ridiculous Sheffield penalties

Didn’t see the rule about the handball changing but was a wise decision, must admit I was surprised at the time that Sheffield didn’t get the Robertson handball incident but was unaware at the time that the rule had changed

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Re: VAR

by Franchise FC » 26 Oct 2020 12:29

Old Man Andrews
Sutekh
Sanguine We've ended up in a situation where now instead of referees not being accountable for their decisions, it is VAR that is not. Where is the official statement on the Pickford incident? And the Maguire foul? Where is the acknowledgement that the VAR referee got it wrong? Or an explanation as to why he didn't?



It was all so much better when officials simply had to make a snap decision, if they got it wrong after the event you could usually understand why and be more accepting of it.

Now you get these endless camera angles for someone hidden away somewhere to look at and make a subjective decision which often is still not correct (mind you those decisions are also not helped by FIFA continually piddling about by uneccessarily introducing clarification into laws in an effort to clarify things that never really needed clarification until they start the clarification).

I'd like the VAR referee to only be allowed 30 seconds to make a decision. Have a countdown clock in the corner of the screen or on the stadium screens once supporters are back in the grounds. If a definitive decision cannot be reached in that time then we stay with the on field decision. If something is clear and obvious then it should be established in 30 seconds imo. Lets get rid of the overturning of offside calls that need multiple lines drawn or 3 minutes to decide, that just isn't football.

Absolutely, although we've talked at home about 15 seconds, not 30. Anywhere between those two would do.
And it makes sure that it's only the obvious that gets overturned

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Re: VAR

by 6ft Kerplunk » 26 Oct 2020 13:40

South Coast Royal Thanks for the info on penalties scored this season-it has felt each time when watching that a goal will be scored.

Good, that's what penalties are supposed to be (although I'll accept that they get given for the softest of things sometimes and not for nailed on goal scoring opportunities), what we've seen is keeper's being pulled up for cheating. They didn't even have to bring in a new rule like they have done, just checked VAR for them moving off the line early which has always been the rule. Been a bug bear of mine for many a year especially in shootouts.

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Re: VAR

by BR0B0T » 26 Oct 2020 15:31

Sanguine Ooh, a maths question. I like.

There's two things going on with penalties. First, that more are being awarded. Second, that the continual 'refinement' of rules around the penalty kick are making them near impossible to keep out.

So first, number of penalties, 30 so far this season in roughly six rounds of games, which is one every two games.
Broadly there have been on average 90 penalties per season for the last few years, which is less than one every four games.

On success from the spot, 26 of those 30 penalties have been scored, a rate of 87%. Scoring rates in the previous five seasons - 78%, 82%, 70%, 76%, 81%, 76%. 2017-18 a bit of an outlier, so let's say an average success rate of 79%.

So at this stage of the season, after six rounds, you'd expect 14 penalties to have been awarded, and 11 of them scored. So VAR and the rules have 'added' 15 successful penalties.

On to goals. Worth a note that after the international break, goals have settled down with 44 in the 18 games since, more in line with the longer-term average. But that aside, last six seasons in the PL - 2.82 per game, 2.68, 2.80, 2.70, 2.56, 2.76. Average of 2.72 per game. This season, 192 goals in 56 games played so far, 3.43 goals per game.

So against the long-term average, we have seen 40 goals more so far this season than we would have expected, of which 15 may be considered the impact of VAR/rules changes on penalties.


You haven't even looked at the variance on penalties awarded stat

...so I'm out!

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Re: VAR

by BR0B0T » 26 Oct 2020 15:50

pens in the prem



for the last 19 years, st.dev is about 11.5

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