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Hendo
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Re: Question

by Hendo » 10 Sep 2020 14:00

Sutekh So the Premier League paid the teams relegated from the first division in 1992 (Notts County, Luton Town & West Ham United) a “consolation” payment for missing out in joining the first Premier League? How ludicrous is that?


I don't think it is that ludicrous to be honest, seems pretty fair for those teams which will miss out on a new league and a new TV deal which changed the way things were done for 104 years.

Why would you think it was ludicrous?

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Re: Question

by Sutekh » 10 Sep 2020 14:19

Hendo
Sutekh So the Premier League paid the teams relegated from the first division in 1992 (Notts County, Luton Town & West Ham United) a “consolation” payment for missing out in joining the first Premier League? How ludicrous is that?


I don't think it is that ludicrous to be honest, seems pretty fair for those teams which will miss out on a new league and a new TV deal which changed the way things were done for 104 years.

Why would you think it was ludicrous?


Just think it was daft for that very reason, the competition hadn’t even started yet clubs received “parachute” payments for failing to qualify for it. Surprised the losing PO finalists didn’t get something as well :D

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Winston Biscuit
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Re: Question

by Winston Biscuit » 10 Sep 2020 15:41

I have some other things things I have learned from this football lawyer book which I will post on here later.

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Re: Question

by South Coast Royal » 10 Sep 2020 16:36

Snowflake Royal
Zip
Hendo
They were in the Prem in the late 90s/early 00s though.


I couldn’t remember if they had been or not.

Aahhh, the days of Steve Ogrizavich, Darren Huckerby, Noel Whelan and co if I'm not mistaken.


Kevin Gallagher?
Gary McAllister and David Burrows?

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Re: Question

by Winston Biscuit » 10 Sep 2020 17:22

As said on the previous page I am listening to an audiobook of a football lawyer and while the vast majority of it is is nothing new to any avid football fan, there are a small number of things that cropped up which were new to me and I found (boringly) interesting so documented them:

Player appearance bonuses are set out as percentages for substitutes depending on what minute they enter the field of play

Player win bonuses are typically set out with an ongoing league position attached to it i.e a win that sees us finish the weekend in 1-4 place gets you 100% of win bonus, a win that sees us finish 5-10 place gets you 75% of win bonus etc

Total end of season squad bonus is typically divided up into the amount of points the team earned that season and then each player gets their own total number of points depending on how many wins or draws they were involved in as a starter or a substitute

Loyalty payments are set in contracts to be paid on 1st Sept for the previous season so that the player doesn't get it if he leaves. Some stupid clubs (West Ham) don't understand this and get their fingers burned paying them after the final game of the season and then the player hands in a transfer request.

When you see a player heavily rumoured to want to leave and it becomes known that the clubs stance is that they demand the player hand in a transfer request, we fans and the media often see it as the club making the player the bad guy and showing the fans their hand was forced, it's actually because handing in a transfer request means the player is fore-fitting certain bonus payments.

All Premier league clubs who purchase a player must add an additional 4% of the value of that transfer on and give it to the PFA. This is mainly for covering pensions but also other stuff.

The main figure you see in the newspapers about a club signing a new big shirt deal is misleading. Shirt deals are also based on league positions and European competitions qualified for and the figure season to season can end up varying quite a bit. Clubs typically make 10-15% from the sale of actual shirts as the shirt deal itself is where they make the money. Man Utd got their large deal as they volunteered not to make any money from shirt sales and so just get the number agreed in the basic deal. They do have a number of shirts sold where they can start earning a % of them again but it would mean selling more than they have before.

Players with full sponsorship (personal/club/country) earn more than players with split sponsorship. The sponsorship contracts also have clauses in them about this and the payments can change depending on that changing which can end up influencing which club a player transfers to. An example would be a Barcelona player who plays in a Nike kit but has Adidas personal sponsorship in place and plays internationally in an Adidas kit would get less personal sponsorship money than someone playing in Nike/Nike/Nike or Adidas/Adidas/Adidas. The manufacturer doesn't want to pay the player big sponsorship money only for them to have their most iconic moment in a rival manufacturers gear. in this example situation above if the player was looking to transfer to another club then moving to a club that played in Adidas meaning they have full sponsorship with them could see their sponsorship money rise significantly. This can end up being more significant than their basic club pay rise and influences which clubs some players want to transfer to.

Home Grown Player rules differ between PL and UEFA. Ben Davis of Spurs is classed as home grown in the PL but in European competition he takes up a non homegrown place in the squad as he came through at Swansea. UEFA base their rule on the FA that the club are aligned to so Swansea reporting to FAW decides it for them.

Not finished the book so will add anything else that comes up


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Re: Question

by Snowflake Royal » 10 Sep 2020 17:31

Winston Biscuit As said on the previous page I am listening to an audiobook of a football lawyer and while the vast majority of it is is nothing new to any avid football fan, there are a small number of things that cropped up which were new to me and I found (boringly) interesting so documented them:

Player appearance bonuses are set out as percentages for substitutes depending on what minute they enter the field of play

Player win bonuses are typically set out with an ongoing league position attached to it i.e a win that sees us finish the weekend in 1-4 place gets you 100% of win bonus, a win that sees us finish 5-10 place gets you 75% of win bonus etc

Total end of season squad bonus is typically divided up into the amount of points the team earned that season and then each player gets their own total number of points depending on how many wins or draws they were involved in as a starter or a substitute

Loyalty payments are set in contracts to be paid on 1st Sept for the previous season so that the player doesn't get it if he leaves. Some stupid clubs (West Ham) don't understand this and get their fingers burned paying them after the final game of the season and then the player hands in a transfer request.

When you see a player heavily rumoured to want to leave and it becomes known that the clubs stance is that they demand the player hand in a transfer request, we fans and the media often see it as the club making the player the bad guy and showing the fans their hand was forced, it's actually because handing in a transfer request means the player is fore-fitting certain bonus payments.

All Premier league clubs who purchase a player must add an additional 4% of the value of that transfer on and give it to the PFA. This is mainly for covering pensions but also other stuff.

The main figure you see in the newspapers about a club signing a new big shirt deal is misleading. Shirt deals are also based on league positions and European competitions qualified for and the figure season to season can end up varying quite a bit. Clubs typically make 10-15% from the sale of actual shirts as the shirt deal itself is where they make the money. Man Utd got their large deal as they volunteered not to make any money from shirt sales and so just get the number agreed in the basic deal. They do have a number of shirts sold where they can start earning a % of them again but it would mean selling more than they have before.

Players with full sponsorship (personal/club/country) earn more than players with split sponsorship. The sponsorship contracts also have clauses in them about this and the payments can change depending on that changing which can end up influencing which club a player transfers to. An example would be a Barcelona player who plays in a Nike kit but has Adidas personal sponsorship in place and plays internationally in an Adidas kit would get less personal sponsorship money than someone playing in Nike/Nike/Nike or Adidas/Adidas/Adidas. The manufacturer doesn't want to pay the player big sponsorship money only for them to have their most iconic moment in a rival manufacturers gear. in this example situation above if the player was looking to transfer to another club then moving to a club that played in Adidas meaning they have full sponsorship with them could see their sponsorship money rise significantly. This can end up being more significant than their basic club pay rise and influences which clubs some players want to transfer to.

Home Grown Player rules differ between PL and UEFA. Ben Davis of Spurs is classed as home grown in the PL but in European competition he takes up a non homegrown place in the squad as he came through at Swansea. UEFA base their rule on the FA that the club are aligned to so Swansea reporting to FAW decides it for them.

Not finished the book so will add anything else that comes up

Thanks Winst, that's really useful.

Might explain some of the old Madj comments about what's reported isn't the real value if the bonus stuff is that variable.

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Re: Question

by Zip » 10 Sep 2020 17:53

Good stuff Winstonian.

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Re: Question

by SouthDownsRoyal » 10 Sep 2020 19:40

Hendo
Sutekh So the Premier League paid the teams relegated from the first division in 1992 (Notts County, Luton Town & West Ham United) a “consolation” payment for missing out in joining the first Premier League? How ludicrous is that?


I don't think it is that ludicrous to be honest, seems pretty fair for those teams which will miss out on a new league and a new TV deal which changed the way things were done for 104 years.

Why would you think it was ludicrous?


How is it not just tough luck?

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Re: Question

by Hendo » 10 Sep 2020 21:03

SouthDownsRoyal
Hendo
Sutekh So the Premier League paid the teams relegated from the first division in 1992 (Notts County, Luton Town & West Ham United) a “consolation” payment for missing out in joining the first Premier League? How ludicrous is that?


I don't think it is that ludicrous to be honest, seems pretty fair for those teams which will miss out on a new league and a new TV deal which changed the way things were done for 104 years.

Why would you think it was ludicrous?


How is it not just tough luck?


Because for something to happen, like a complete change in league structure, which breaks 104 years of tradition and you happen to miss out shouldn’t be just tough luck. The clubs who stayed in the top flight would’ve got a massive windfall (for the time) the relegated clubs should probably share some of that, but I doubt it was as much as those who stayed up got.


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Re: Question

by SouthDownsRoyal » 10 Sep 2020 21:21

That’s life.

Gotta have a line in the sand. Their fault for being relegated, not good enough for the league.

IF they had stayed up they would have shared in the extra revenue
IF the three losers of the playoffs had won they would have shared in the extra revenue
IF the team finishing 7th in division 2 that year had finish one place higher and go to the playoffs they would have shared in the extra revenue

Where does it end?

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Re: Question

by SouthDownsRoyal » 10 Sep 2020 21:32

Sutekh So the Premier League paid the teams relegated from the first division in 1992 (Notts County, Luton Town & West Ham United) a “consolation” payment for missing out in joining the first Premier League? How ludicrous is that?


I agree

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Sutekh
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Re: Question

by Sutekh » 11 Sep 2020 13:24

SouthDownsRoyal That’s life.

Gotta have a line in the sand. Their fault for being relegated, not good enough for the league.

IF they had stayed up they would have shared in the extra revenue
IF the three losers of the playoffs had won they would have shared in the extra revenue
IF the team finishing 7th in division 2 that year had finish one place higher and go to the playoffs they would have shared in the extra revenue

Where does it end?


Probably with any club that might happen to finish 2nd in the division below the Premier League when the Premier League chooses to restructure.

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