by windermereROYAL » 11 Oct 2020 22:46
by URZZZZ » 11 Oct 2020 23:51
StrandedURZZZZSutekh I would extend the PL to 40 clubs in two divisions. PL1 with 18 clubs and PL2 with 22. There would be the standard 3 up and 3 down between the divisions.
Don’t know the ins and outs of the idea but apparently a new idea is being proposed where the Prem is being cut to 18 teams which links to your idea
It’s being driven by Liverpool and United and within the new concept, the League Cup and Community Shield will be abolished
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54499998
More information about it there
Yep PL pissed this has come out so must be on the money.
Not sure where 2 extra clubs fit in the EFL unless 2 extra drop out the bottom or go bust.
Deal includes 25% of all new TV deals going to the EFL, parachute payments scrapped and the play-offs changed so that the team finishing 16th in the PL play off against 3rd to 5th in the Championship.
Would also give more power to 9 clubs defined as long term share holders of the PL.
EFL apparently supportive as will clearly massively boost bank accounts at EFL level even if it makes it harder to get to the top than today.
by Stranded » 12 Oct 2020 08:56
windermereROYAL With the so called big 6 controlling every vote, it wont be long until it`s one down and one up from the championship.
by WestYorksRoyal » 12 Oct 2020 09:55
by From Despair To Where? » 12 Oct 2020 10:45
by Mid Sussex Royal » 12 Oct 2020 10:59
WestYorksRoyal Very easy to react badly against these ideas. And there are 2 terrible aspects; the new voting structure that gives control to the big 6 and changing the promotion/play-off process.
But it involves a proper rescue package and sustainable funding post-Covid. I'd hope people can engage in discussions and look to improve what's on offer (I assume the proposal is not "take or leave").
Big question marks over Parry's conduct though. As I understand, EFL rescue packages are currently being negotiated with govt and Premier League. He has absolutely no business going behind their back and getting in cahoots with a couple of big clubs, before announcing in a newspaper article without consulting his members. Sackable behaviour.
by WestYorksRoyal » 12 Oct 2020 11:00
From Despair To Where? Does seem to be dangling the carrot of more money to the EFL in exchange for a blatant power grab by the big clubs.
Be interesting who the 9 historical clubs would be considering Man City were in the 3rd tier a little 20 years ago.
by From Despair To Where? » 12 Oct 2020 11:08
WestYorksRoyalFrom Despair To Where? Does seem to be dangling the carrot of more money to the EFL in exchange for a blatant power grab by the big clubs.
Be interesting who the 9 historical clubs would be considering Man City were in the 3rd tier a little 20 years ago.
Get rid of the terrible voting structure proposed and go back to 1 club, 1 vote and I could get behind this tbh. Some other aspects I don't particularly like, but the biggest threat to lower league football, even before Covid, has been the enormous resource gap between the PL and the rest. It's led to too many owners betting the house and losing, while inflating wages for their competitors. Also leads to parachute payments, which are both unfair and necessary. As I understand, the proposal would involve salary caps for the Championship, L1 and L2 in addition to extra funding.
There is an awful lot to like about the proposal, and if the big 6's price is less PL and EFL cup matches to allow more European matches and lucrative international matches, so be it. But giving the big 6 the power to unanimously set the direction of the entire footballing pyramid is a compromise too far, and would surely have to be removed before any deal is reached.
by Mr Angry » 12 Oct 2020 12:34
by WestYorksRoyal » 12 Oct 2020 12:41
Mr Angry If the EFL agree to the proposals in "Project Big Picture", then they would be signing the death knell for Professional Football outside 40 or 50 clubs within a decade; anyone who thinks the "Big 6" are doing this for any reasons other than for their own selfish power grab is deluding themselves.
by Sutekh » 12 Oct 2020 13:22
by WestYorksRoyal » 12 Oct 2020 14:59
Sutekh This “big picture” suggestion should be vetoed as soon as possible. Yet again it’s another plan to enable the tail to wag even more of the dog. Apparent FL backing isn’t a surprise either seeing as the chairman of the FL is Rick Parry who is ex chairman of the PL. If it gets that far, let’s hope none of the current turkeys vote for Christmas.
Also saw somewhere that someone at ManCity is trying to resurrect the plan to put PL B teams into the FL....
by Sanguine » 12 Oct 2020 15:03
WestYorksRoyalMr Angry If the EFL agree to the proposals in "Project Big Picture", then they would be signing the death knell for Professional Football outside 40 or 50 clubs within a decade; anyone who thinks the "Big 6" are doing this for any reasons other than for their own selfish power grab is deluding themselves.
How does providing a greater proportion of TV money to L1 and L2 clubs provide the death knell to smaller clubs? I'm happy to disagree with you, but just want to understand the logic of your argument.
by WestYorksRoyal » 12 Oct 2020 15:09
SanguineWestYorksRoyalMr Angry If the EFL agree to the proposals in "Project Big Picture", then they would be signing the death knell for Professional Football outside 40 or 50 clubs within a decade; anyone who thinks the "Big 6" are doing this for any reasons other than for their own selfish power grab is deluding themselves.
How does providing a greater proportion of TV money to L1 and L2 clubs provide the death knell to smaller clubs? I'm happy to disagree with you, but just want to understand the logic of your argument.
It's the cynics view. And not necessarily the wrong one. The proposals allow the 'big 6' to change the structure of the PL. More TV money to the EFL is one thing - but making it harder to make it to the PL (for example) is another. But the sky (or a deep cave) really is the limit. United struggling along in 15th? Vote through a change to relegation that makes it average points over two seasons. In return for the money going to the EFL, the big 6 want a bigger slice of the pie that is left? They can vote it through.
As above, these proposals look great on the surface for 'English football', but the price of the biggest clubs controlling the PL is too high.
by Mr Angry » 12 Oct 2020 15:35
WestYorksRoyalMr Angry If the EFL agree to the proposals in "Project Big Picture", then they would be signing the death knell for Professional Football outside 40 or 50 clubs within a decade; anyone who thinks the "Big 6" are doing this for any reasons other than for their own selfish power grab is deluding themselves.
How does providing a greater proportion of TV money to L1 and L2 clubs provide the death knell to smaller clubs? I'm happy to disagree with you, but just want to understand the logic of your argument.
by WestYorksRoyal » 12 Oct 2020 15:43
Mr AngryWestYorksRoyalMr Angry If the EFL agree to the proposals in "Project Big Picture", then they would be signing the death knell for Professional Football outside 40 or 50 clubs within a decade; anyone who thinks the "Big 6" are doing this for any reasons other than for their own selfish power grab is deluding themselves.
How does providing a greater proportion of TV money to L1 and L2 clubs provide the death knell to smaller clubs? I'm happy to disagree with you, but just want to understand the logic of your argument.
Not worried about you disagreeing with me; its called debate.
Firstly, this has been brought about more by Leicester winning the Premier League than by Covid; those 6 teams want to prevent that ever happening again.
My logic is this; for a relatively small amount of outlay (£250M sounds a lot, but spread across 72 teams, it equates to less than £3.5M each - and you know the bigger teams in the EFL will expect a bigger share) for a start, 2 teams will go into the National League.
Then, with those 6 clubs running the show (don't be fooled by it being 9; one of the stipulations will be a 2/3rd majority of the 9 - in other words, 6 - will suffice for rule changes) everything will be geared towards them being able to make more money and exploith their brands Worldwide. Never mind dumping the Community Shield and the League Cup, they could turn around and state that, unless they are allowed to join the FA Cup at say, the last 16 stage, they will pull out, and if they do, the winner of the FA Cup doesn't get a European spot....if that happened, what is the point of the FA Cup going forward?
They will insist that their B and possibly even C teams be allowed into the EFL - thus eliminating another 6 or 12 teams to non League.
The possibility of changing the rules for relegation have been mentioned; what it one of the rule changes is that there is no relegation? Couldn't happen? Why not - those clubs would have total control of the rules of the Premier League. It is no coincidence that this is being driven by Man Utd and Liverpool, whose owners are already in US professional sports where there is no relegations....with no chance of every getting to the top division, what happens to sponsorship for EFL teams, or ownership? Who would want to sponsor a club, or own a club, where the chance foir sharing in the riches disappears?
The same with players; any decent young player from our Academy for example, would immediately look to move on to a Premier League club, who could pay a relative pittance to get that player on their books; that would damage the long term viability of the club.
What if - for example - the Kazakhstan National Government through their wealth fund wanted to invest in a football club, one already in the Premier League when this happens, such as Newcastle or Leeds? Well guess what? Those 6 teams would go "Hmmmm, that club with that wealth behind it could threaten us" so they block the possibility of that owner coming into the Premier League. That is one of their stipulations.....
Then there is the TV deal - this is where the real issue lies - the 6 clubs will stitch up the deal so they get the bulk of the money between them, and the rest of the PL get the crumbs. This would maintain their control over the game and destroy any chance of anyone doing a Leicester.
Eventually, with only 6 teams ever able to win anything, or go to Europe, with no FA Cup glory, with young players leaving for next to nothing, fans of smaller clubs will simply stop watching them, and teams will disappear.
Thats my logic.
by Mr Angry » 12 Oct 2020 16:34
by WestYorksRoyal » 12 Oct 2020 17:09
Mr Angry I agree with you; if the EFL could negotiate with the PL and (to use a phrase from another subject) "cherry pick" the best bits whilst dumping the rest, that would be a brilliant outcome and my concerns for the medium/long term future of the game would be assuaged.
2 things however, suggest that this won't happen.
Firstly, I think it is likely that the PL will take the position that the EFL take everything offered, or they get nothing. They hold all the cards.
Secondly, I fear that Rick Parry, the Chairman of the EFL and a man in a position of immense influence, has a massive conflict of interest on this issue; in no way can he be thought of as someone who would be working in the best interests of the EFL in any negotiations with the PL.
So the question is this; if only this deal was on the table - as is with no changes - would you think it acceptable?
by Kitsondinho » 13 Oct 2020 00:13
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