Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

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Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by Nameless » 10 Aug 2020 14:51

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Wow, that is going to be interesting then.


How could it be any different ?
If you excluded one form of payment you invalidate the cap.
Teams would simply pay a £2 million signing on fee paid in monthly instalments across the duration of the contract.
I actually think compared to rugby the rules look quite lax. Rugby have to include payments made to family members as well. Will be 8nteresting to see full details. How does it cater for long term injury ? If you are at the cap and get several long term injuries can you remove the players from the squad and bring in loans to replace them or are you stuck with a smaller squad ?
What about the examplesquoted elsewhere where a club funds part of a player’s wages at another club ? Who’s cap does that count towards ?


Hello Mr Smith, we would like you to sign for this club. Under the terms of the salary cap we can only offer you 10k per week. By the way how is your wife at using Outlook....


Apparantly as part of the deal for Tom Ince joining a club his mother was appointed as a scout on a very healthy annual salary....

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Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by WestYorksRoyal » 10 Aug 2020 16:13

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Detail I read said that cap would include signing on fees, all contract bonuses (goals etc) and agents' fees.


Wow, that is going to be interesting then.


How could it be any different ?
If you excluded one form of payment you invalidate the cap.
Teams would simply pay a £2 million signing on fee paid in monthly instalments across the duration of the contract.
I actually think compared to rugby the rules look quite lax. Rugby have to include payments made to family members as well. Will be 8nteresting to see full details.

I like to think that, if fans speculating on a forum know enough to foresee future loopholes, the EFL with their knowledge and experience can see them too and design the rules in a way that shut them down. Of course, a cynic may expect them to botch it anyway, as then at least they could say they tried to encourage sustainability

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Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by 6ft Kerplunk » 11 Aug 2020 13:19

WestYorksRoyal I like to think that, if fans speculating on a forum know enough to foresee future loopholes, the EFL with their knowledge and experience can see them too and design the rules in a way that shut them down.

ALOL

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Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by Nameless » 11 Aug 2020 13:35

WestYorksRoyal
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Wow, that is going to be interesting then.


How could it be any different ?
If you excluded one form of payment you invalidate the cap.
Teams would simply pay a £2 million signing on fee paid in monthly instalments across the duration of the contract.
I actually think compared to rugby the rules look quite lax. Rugby have to include payments made to family members as well. Will be 8nteresting to see full details.

I like to think that, if fans speculating on a forum know enough to foresee future loopholes, the EFL with their knowledge and experience can see them too and design the rules in a way that shut them down. Of course, a cynic may expect them to botch it anyway, as then at least they could say they tried to encourage sustainability


Like HMRC do with the tax system you mean ?

Rugby fans knew for years that clubs were rigging the salary cap system but the game never caught up with those who were doing it (until recently, and then only one of the clubs has been officially dealt with).
The billionaire owners will always employ smarter lawyers and accountants than the EFL and their will be loopholes...

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Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by Old Man Andrews » 12 Aug 2020 00:21

Feel for Charlton Athletic.


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Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by Franchise FC » 12 Aug 2020 08:15

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Surely every one knows Salford are owned and funded by some very wealthy people, there have been documentaries about it, it’s hardly a secret.
Do they spend beyond their means ? They might spend more than they earn through gate receipts but that’s not the same thing at all.
And spending more than other clubs is hardly new or wrong. The Football League only existed because some clubs wanted to spend more than others 150 years ago !


I guess there is a point where it almost becomes financial doping - didn't they offer Adam Rooney something silly like 4k a a week in the National League (given the average wage for a pro at that level is around 50k max - that is a massive jump) - so he moved from the SPL to English non-league even though clubs higher up the pyramid wanted him but understandably couldn't match that kind of weekly wage.

History is full of clubs who spent more than others but did it badly so didn't see any benefit at all, in fact ended up in a worst position but some fees/wages are so out of kilter with the rest of a league that you can see why it puts noses out of joint.


The focus seems to be completely on the Class of 92 but to all intents and purposes, they are a front for the people with the real financial clout. If FFP was extended throughout the whole football league, they would have absolutely no chance of complying.

I guess that opens up a different issue about the effectiveness of FFP. It certainly rules out the prospect of another Wigan or Bournemouth as it seems to pull up the ladder between established Championship sides and clubs who aspire to get there. It's a far from perfect fix for a complex problem.

As a whole, I'm not against the bankrolling of clubs by wealthy individuals but obviously the issue lies with whether it's responsible and benevolent ownership but I'd love to meet the person who finds a fix for that.

The fix is to make cash injections into the club to cover anything more than the ‘allowable’ losses non-refundable (i.e. they have to be invoiced, gifted or as share capital). And to cope with the situation where a club gets saddled with long contracts, place a requirement on the owners/funders to provide funds to cover the liability.

Then a person can plough as much as they like into a club, but with very limited means of getting anything back.

Where do you want to meet ?

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Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by From Despair To Where? » 12 Aug 2020 10:11

How about a cap on contract lengths to 3 years, non renegotiable until 50% of the duration of the contract has passed.

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Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by Sutekh » 12 Aug 2020 13:30

Old Man Andrews Feel for Charlton Athletic.


The sorry mess that is Charlton Athletic continues apace as the club still has massive ownership problems and ultimately could see the club ejected from the FL altogether if they’re not resolved

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53698266

Guess the above makes it difficult to lodge any appeal over Sheffield Wednesday as well.

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Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by exileinleeds » 20 Aug 2020 14:20

Former owner of Wigan (now in administration) has waived £36m in loans. https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/53851995

This is absolutely not money laundering.


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Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by Stranded » 20 Aug 2020 15:02

exileinleeds Former owner of Wigan (now in administration) has waived £36m in loans. https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/53851995

This is absolutely not money laundering.


Not sure it is money laundering - but I would imagine the 36m is dwarfed by whatever he has allegedly won on a bet that they would be relegated.

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Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by Sutekh » 13 Sep 2020 08:32

There is a problem brewing at Roots Hall with the club’s manager’s hands somewhat tied by a transfer embargo (the average age of the Southend squad is about 22) due to an unpaid HMRC bill.

Might Southend become the next Bury?

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Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by Winston Biscuit » 16 Sep 2020 11:46

Macclesfield Town wound up :(

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Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by Old Man Andrews » 16 Sep 2020 12:11

Awful news. I don't think they will be the only ones this season either.


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Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by Winston Biscuit » 16 Sep 2020 12:23

Southend winding-up petition adjourned for fourth time until 28 October

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Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by Sutekh » 16 Sep 2020 13:19

Winston Biscuit Macclesfield Town wound up :(


Not surprised, Macclesfield had been in awful state for the best part of 2 years. The fans will reform the club and they’ll be back playing eventually.

National League now playing 2 clubs short of its full constitution (23 clubs in the national division and 21 in the southern section).

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Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by Old Man Andrews » 22 Sep 2020 16:11

I am never normally in favour of large clubs helping out small clubs in financial difficulties but they simply have to if supporters aren't allowed back in to stadiums soon. The National League and the couple of leagues below will simply fold if they are not given financial support.

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Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by Winston Biscuit » 22 Sep 2020 16:41

I think it would be a real statement if one of the countries highest paid footballers donated a chunk to a small club to see them through a few months. I know they don't have to at all, and am not expecting it. Could be a real game changer if they did though.

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Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by Franchise FC » 22 Sep 2020 17:24

Winston Biscuit I think it would be a real statement if one of the countries highest paid footballers donated a chunk to a small club to see them through a few months. I know they don't have to at all, and am not expecting it. Could be a real game changer if they did though.

Hasn't someone done exactly that recently ?

For the life of me I can't remember who it was

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Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by Winston Biscuit » 22 Sep 2020 17:25

Franchise FC
Winston Biscuit I think it would be a real statement if one of the countries highest paid footballers donated a chunk to a small club to see them through a few months. I know they don't have to at all, and am not expecting it. Could be a real game changer if they did though.

Hasn't someone done exactly that recently ?

For the life of me I can't remember who it was


Victor Moses donated to Wigan last week

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Re: Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

by Tony Le Mesmer » 23 Sep 2020 09:51

Old Man Andrews I am never normally in favour of large clubs helping out small clubs in financial difficulties but they simply have to if supporters aren't allowed back in to stadiums soon. The National League and the couple of leagues below will simply fold if they are not given financial support.


I think its Levels 3-6 that are most vulnerable (L1 down). Levels 7 and below are actually doing very well out of this with all the increased attendances. They also dont have contracted players in the most part.

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