Something sinister in the Championship

Westwood52
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Something sinister in the Championship

by Westwood52 » 01 Aug 2020 14:13

Rumours of Sheffield Weds malpractice have been surfacing since Xmas.For some reason the EFL will not be deducting the 12 points this season;but instead they will lose 12 points the season coming.Charlton would not be relegated,if Sheffield Wed had suffered the deduction this season,and Charlton quite rightly are threatening court action.Why the EFL changed their policy is very strange,and I can understand Charlton being very unhappy about it.
I have no beef against either club,but rules are rules ?Of course Wednesday starting the season 12 points behind us,is good news for RFC.Who are the “dodgy” clubs In this situation; in the Championship next season.Cant be many who are not.

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Snowflake Royal
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Re: Something sinister in the Championship

by Snowflake Royal » 01 Aug 2020 14:24

What are you on about?

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Re: Something sinister in the Championship

by Nameless » 01 Aug 2020 14:27

Wednesday were charged in November last year so it’s been more than a rumour for a long time.
Not sure why it took the Independent panel so long to reach their verdict (blame thevirus) but as the 2019-20 season is over I’m not sure they could deduct points for it ?
Obviously Charlton will be unhappybut they have no real grounds. They were rightly relegated and whenever the points deduction is applied they still deserve to go down onfootball grounds.
From our point of view it makes no odds. If Weds get the 12 deducted now they go down and Charlton stay up but will be fighting relegation again next season

donh99
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Re: Something sinister in the Championship

by donh99 » 01 Aug 2020 14:37

Nameless Wednesday were charged in November last year so it’s been more than a rumour for a long time.
Not sure why it took the Independent panel so long to reach their verdict (blame thevirus) but as the 2019-20 season is over I’m not sure they could deduct points for it ?
Obviously Charlton will be unhappybut they have no real grounds. They were rightly relegated and whenever the points deduction is applied they still deserve to go down onfootball grounds.
From our point of view it makes no odds. If Weds get the 12 deducted now they go down and Charlton stay up but will be fighting relegation again next season

Doesn't the season end after the play off final next Tuesday?

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Re: Something sinister in the Championship

by Nameless » 01 Aug 2020 14:43

donh99
Nameless Wednesday were charged in November last year so it’s been more than a rumour for a long time.
Not sure why it took the Independent panel so long to reach their verdict (blame thevirus) but as the 2019-20 season is over I’m not sure they could deduct points for it ?
Obviously Charlton will be unhappybut they have no real grounds. They were rightly relegated and whenever the points deduction is applied they still deserve to go down onfootball grounds.
From our point of view it makes no odds. If Weds get the 12 deducted now they go down and Charlton stay up but will be fighting relegation again next season

Doesn't the season end after the play off final next Tuesday?



Interesting point ! The league season is over. I’d say the playoffs is a separate thing. So in Div 1 and 2 they ended their season at lockdown, and then went to playoffs later.
But could be wrong. Not that it matters either way to us.


The Royal Forester
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Re: Something sinister in the Championship

by The Royal Forester » 01 Aug 2020 15:02

I do wonder, though, why the EFL did not announce the results of the enquiry until after the season ended. Perhaps the EFL should make a rule that all points deductions will be made the following season, that way clubs and supporters would not be confused as to when (and why) the punishment is handed out.

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Re: Something sinister in the Championship

by Nameless » 01 Aug 2020 16:01

The Royal Forester I do wonder, though, why the EFL did not announce the results of the enquiry until after the season ended. Perhaps the EFL should make a rule that all points deductions will be made the following season, that way clubs and supporters would not be confused as to when (and why) the punishment is handed out.


When did the enquiry give it’s decision ? The EFL Couldn’t announce anything until the independent enquiry concluded.
Agree applying the penalty at the start of the next season would give consistency.

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Snowflake Royal
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Re: Something sinister in the Championship

by Snowflake Royal » 01 Aug 2020 16:16

Nameless
donh99
Nameless Wednesday were charged in November last year so it’s been more than a rumour for a long time.
Not sure why it took the Independent panel so long to reach their verdict (blame thevirus) but as the 2019-20 season is over I’m not sure they could deduct points for it ?
Obviously Charlton will be unhappybut they have no real grounds. They were rightly relegated and whenever the points deduction is applied they still deserve to go down onfootball grounds.
From our point of view it makes no odds. If Weds get the 12 deducted now they go down and Charlton stay up but will be fighting relegation again next season

Doesn't the season end after the play off final next Tuesday?



Interesting point ! The league season is over. I’d say the playoffs is a separate thing. So in Div 1 and 2 they ended their season at lockdown, and then went to playoffs later.
But could be wrong. Not that it matters either way to us.

I'd argue the season has to be over before the Play Offs start otherwise you might have the wrong teams in the play offs.

Westwood52
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Re: Something sinister in the Championship

by Westwood52 » 01 Aug 2020 16:34

Apparently we were under investigation at the same time as Sheffield Wed and Derby,for the same reasons.What happened to the enquiry into us ? Has it gone away ?


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Re: Something sinister in the Championship

by The Royal Forester » 01 Aug 2020 17:09

Westwood52 Apparently we were under investigation at the same time as Sheffield Wed and Derby,for the same reasons.What happened to the enquiry into us ? Has it gone away ?

Possibly not. The difference is we- as far I know- paid a current valuation for our stadium. Unlike Derby and Sheffield Wednesday, who paid an excessive amount and/or had the sale date and transfer date in different tax years, thereby "fixing" things to appear to conform to Regulations. Selling the Stadium in itself is probably not wrong, but the way it was done by the other two clubs is.

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Snowflake Royal
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Re: Something sinister in the Championship

by Snowflake Royal » 01 Aug 2020 21:01

Have Derby been charged or not? Obviously we haven't.

Proving something on valuation is going to be trickier than on dodgy dates I'd have thought, though Derby's looks excessively suspicious. And we're all guilty of trying to play the rules... though I think we probably fall on the right side of ok.

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From Despair To Where?
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Re: Something sinister in the Championship

by From Despair To Where? » 01 Aug 2020 22:04

The "independent" valuation of Derby's ground was done by a surveying company owned by the Morris family. They came up with a value double the estimated value. Nothing suspicious there at all..

Westwood52
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Re: Something sinister in the Championship

by Westwood52 » 01 Aug 2020 23:17

Didn’t Birmingham get done in the season,they were investigated;and get a one point discount on the penalty because they co operated.Sheff Wed worked the system by appealing against the charge,and not co operating,so extended the process so the decision would affect next season and not this.


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Pepe the Horseman
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Re: Something sinister in the Championship

by Pepe the Horseman » 02 Aug 2020 01:21

Guys, can you please stop putting spaces in front of punctuation marks?

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Zip
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Re: Something sinister in the Championship

by Zip » 02 Aug 2020 01:26

Pepe the Horseman Guys, can you please stop putting spaces in front of punctuation marks?


Why. ?

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Re: Something sinister in the Championship

by Stranded » 02 Aug 2020 08:43

Nameless
The Royal Forester I do wonder, though, why the EFL did not announce the results of the enquiry until after the season ended. Perhaps the EFL should make a rule that all points deductions will be made the following season, that way clubs and supporters would not be confused as to when (and why) the punishment is handed out.


When did the enquiry give it’s decision ? The EFL Couldn’t announce anything until the independent enquiry concluded.
Agree applying the penalty at the start of the next season would give consistency.


According to the press release at least the enquiry released it's finding the day the punishment was announced.

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Re: Something sinister in the Championship

by Stranded » 02 Aug 2020 08:44

Snowflake Royal Have Derby been charged or not? Obviously we haven't.

Proving something on valuation is going to be trickier than on dodgy dates I'd have thought, though Derby's looks excessively suspicious. And we're all guilty of trying to play the rules... though I think we probably fall on the right side of ok.


Derby were charged in January. Would expect any findings next month at the earliest. If we have been under investigation then we have never been charged.

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Re: Something sinister in the Championship

by Nameless » 02 Aug 2020 09:05

Stranded
Snowflake Royal Have Derby been charged or not? Obviously we haven't.

Proving something on valuation is going to be trickier than on dodgy dates I'd have thought, though Derby's looks excessively suspicious. And we're all guilty of trying to play the rules... though I think we probably fall on the right side of ok.


Derby were charged in January. Would expect any findings next month at the earliest. If we have been under investigation then we have never been charged.


Is Nigel Howe still on the EFL board ?
Thinking sensibly he should have been perfectly placed to ensure what we did stayed within the letter and spirit of the rules. I would expect clubs with any sense would have got sign off from the EFL before doing any of these asset transfers, kind of like you speak to your local planners before you submit a planning application to make sure it gets through.
Are there any clubs with sense ?

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Snowflake Royal
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Re: Something sinister in the Championship

by Snowflake Royal » 02 Aug 2020 10:21

From what I understand, if Wednesday didn't do the creative accounting they'd have got a punishment for breaching FFP anyway.

Presumably if Derby sold the stadium at market value so would they.

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Re: Something sinister in the Championship

by Hitchytwo » 02 Aug 2020 10:30

Snowflake Royal From what I understand, if Wednesday didn't do the creative accounting they'd have got a punishment for breaching FFP anyway.

Presumably if Derby sold the stadium at market value so would they.

From what I've heard on the news, Wednesday did sell there stadium but the sale was too late for the FFP and therefore did not count. As such they are still being punished for breaking FFP.

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