BFTG - WBA

[muirinho]

Anyway, as to McLean and poppies etc. My understanding is that our soldiers in all the wars fought and died to keep our freedoms. The choice of poppy or no poppy is one of those freedoms. Mind you, to not wear a poppy because of your republicanism seriously misses the point.

The red poppy commemorates the deaths of allied soldiers, and funds the Royal British Legion. Not every soldier in every conflict. Which means it is therefore difficult for anybody who has suffered, or who knows people who have suffered, because of the actions of British soldiers to support. Incidentally, which of our "freedoms" were the Paras in Northern Ireland fighting for?

If McClean was wearing a republican symbol instead of a poppy, then I'd understand some of the vitriol a bit more.

I am Irish. My grandmother and her family were burnt out of Belfast under the indifferent eyes of the army and police, and had to flee south, because they were Catholic. My great-uncle died fighting for the Allies in WWII. Foot in both camps, and can see both sides.

[Nameless]

Mind you, to not wear a poppy because of your republicanism seriously misses the point.

Surely thinking McLean doesn't wear a poppy 'because of his republicanism' misses the point even more ? I think it's a little more personal than that.

[West Stand Man]

Anyway, as to McLean and poppies etc. My understanding is that our soldiers in all the wars fought and died to keep our freedoms. The choice of poppy or no poppy is one of those freedoms. Mind you, to not wear a poppy because of your republicanism seriously misses the point.

The red poppy commemorates the deaths of allied soldiers, and funds the Royal British Legion. Not every soldier in every conflict. Which means it is therefore difficult for anybody who has suffered, or who knows people who have suffered, because of the actions of British soldiers to support. Incidentally, which of our "freedoms" were the Paras in Northern Ireland fighting for?

If McClean was wearing a republican symbol instead of a poppy, then I'd understand some of the vitriol a bit more.

I am Irish. My grandmother and her family were burnt out of Belfast under the indifferent eyes of the army and police, and had to flee south, because they were Catholic. My great-uncle died fighting for the Allies in WWII. Foot in both camps, and can see both sides.

Note that I said our soldiers not every soldier. Equally, I supported his right to not wear one as a freedom that was fought for. I disagree with him but I would always support his right to that choice.

As to the paras in NI, we could argue that one to death ( and why do you pick out the Parachute a Regiment rather than anyone else?). The history of the 'troubles' has blurred but at the start the deployment of troops in NI was at the request of the Catholic community who needed protection from Protestant violence that was not being controlled by the (Protestant ) police force. Early footage of that deployment shows Catholic families welcoming the troops. The whole subject of freedoms gets confused in that conflict, and almost no one comes out of it with much honour.

[elman]

I have been following this conversation but being on the other side of the pond can somebody enlighten me as to why Poppies are being worn in February rather than November?

[Ian Royal]

I have been following this conversation but being on the other side of the pond can somebody enlighten me as to why Poppies are being worn in February rather than November?

They aren't it's a historic issue used to explain McClean getting booed in our game at the weekend.

S' all a bit tedious. Some people seem to have booed him because he won't participate in wearing a poppy at the relevant time.

Others booed him because he's generally a bit of a nasty thug.

No one has anything better to say, so they're arguing about poppys.

[Catterick Royal]

A lot of those soldiers might also say they were fighting so people in the future would have a right to choose how to express themselves whether it be by wearing a poppy or something else.

Not sure that is true having lost mates in Northern Ireland, but respect your view. So are we saying an Afghani Player could play and not have to wear the RFC badge because it has the Forbury Lion on it which commemorates the Battle of Maiwand fought against the Afghans? Surely this is football not politics so players should just wear the shirt, respect the beliefs of the Country they have chosen to play in and keep their political views to themselves?

You're narrowing the point to pretty extreme examples there really. The view I put is reasonably mainstream I would have thought.

Point taken. I took this to be an individual issue because as far as I know he is the only professional footballer that has objected to wearing a poppy – so I had taken it a as a specific personal issue to him. Wearing of poppies on football shirts is mainstream but I would not say the refusal to wear them is common?

Personally I have an enamel poppy on my jacket that I wear all year round (obviously less the summer, but we don’t have much warm weather in Catterick anyway!) – that is my choice because I personally remember the 21 members of my battalion killed during my time in the Army.

My point was about respect for the country you are in or the mainstream views of its population – I suppose an example is that I train Gurkha Recruits who are mainly Hindu and when I go to their Temple I remove any leather items before I enter in respect of their faith.

Anyway, this is all too serious now and nothing to do with football really......... so I’m off to kill some people as it seems to be the view of some on here that is what the Army does !! obviously when we are not evacuating Northerners out of their flooded houses

[RoyalBlue]

Unbelievably Get Reading is reporting that the 17 year old who threw the coin that struck Brunt was let off with just a police caution?!

[Nameless]

Wouldn't you want to know a few facts about the lad before describing it as 'unbelieveable' ?

And from what I hear he absolutely did not get away with 'just a caution'. Swift justice was administered on the day.

[RoyalBlue]

Wouldn't you want to know a few facts about the lad before describing it as 'unbelieveable' ?

And from what I hear he absolutely did not get away with 'just a caution'. Swift justice was administered on the day.

I'm afraid that when you do something that stupid and dangerous, your background shouldn't mean that you get off lightly. What's more, I believe it's very rare that you do. Does a caution automatically include a banning order for a period of time?

IIRC the police didn't manage to catch him until quite a few days later, which would suggest any 'justice' meted out on the day by other WBA supporters was not to him!

[Forbury Lion]

Mind you, to not wear a poppy because of your republicanism seriously misses the point.

Surely thinking McLean doesn't wear a poppy 'because of his republicanism' misses the point even more ? I think it's a little more personal than that.

A poppy murdered his parents.