Hob Nob Anyone?

Hound wrote:I still don’t know what to think about McD 2.0

Was disappointed he got the sack at the time despite the second half of that season being utterly miserable

Then obvs the play off season was a big bonus with Stam who did a fine job initially

But Stam season 2 and the terrible signings that followed genuinely did nearly bring the club to its knees (along with the most unentertaining dreadful football I’ve ever watched) whereas I’d expect McD would have given us a good foundation to compete in the champ.

I have no idea how Stam's first season happened. The club had been suffering from instability and poor recruitment for several years when we recruited him. Our squad didn't look that great, we took some huge away hammerings and seemed to grind out countless results which we could easily have lost. I would call it a freak event, except that you can't call it that given it happened over 46 games. Our attendances never matched previous successful seasons, and it was clearly because the football was dull.

In the main, I'd say you can't judge any manager from 2013-2019 too harshly. Sometimes clubs get deep rooted problems and poor cultures which managers can't overcome. I'm just glad that we avoided League 1.

I would say that Clement seemed an uninspiring journeyman and Stam was an arrogant, stubborn oxf*rd who at times took to blaming the fans. So overall I hold Adkins and McDermott 2.0 in higher esteem.

Hendo wrote:

WoodleyRoyal wrote:

Old Man Andrews wrote:Adkins was lied to and mislead here from the start. Think he gets a lot of abuse that's unwarranted. Lovely bloke too.

Massive +1 to that

Yeah +1 as well, seems to get a lot of hate but I can never work out why.

Right manager at the wrong time.

And it all seems to be exclusively about his tan and from McDermott fanboys who hate him because he took over after Bri was sacked, like it had anything to do with him.

Weirdos.

Good manager, wrong time and got shafted. We've gone from bad to worse since. Don't seem him taking on a DoF role, or coming back for a second stint as manager here.

Snowflake Royal wrote:

Hendo wrote:

WoodleyRoyal wrote:
Massive +1 to that

Yeah +1 as well, seems to get a lot of hate but I can never work out why.

Right manager at the wrong time.

And it all seems to be exclusively about his tan and from McDermott fanboys who hate him because he took over after Bri was sacked, like it had anything to do with him.

Weirdos.

Good manager, wrong time and got shafted. We've gone from bad to worse since. Don't seem him taking on a DoF role, or coming back for a second stint as manager here.

His record is excellent on the whole. Our supporters forget that he nearly got us in the playoffs despite all the off field drama at the time. His efforts at Southampton and Scunthorpe show his ability. Did a decent job at Hull all things considered too.

Sh*t at Reading, Sh*t at Sheff Utd.

Ranty McRantface wrote:

genome wrote:

SpaghettiHoop wrote: Absolutely. Top guy.

+4. He was shafted, just like Brian 2.0

Agreed apart from McDoughnut 2.0.

Now he is a manager that got massively found out with no plan B.

‘McDoughnut’

It still puzzles me that people can be so disrespectful towards a manager who (a) is one of only two men to take us to the Premier League and (b) was a loyal servent to the club over many years and clearly has a great deal of affection for us.

The Royal We wrote:

Ranty McRantface wrote:

genome wrote:
+4. He was shafted, just like Brian 2.0

Agreed apart from McDoughnut 2.0.

Now he is a manager that got massively found out with no plan B.

‘McDoughnut’

It still puzzles me that people can be so disrespectful towards a manager who (a) is one of only two men to take us to the Premier League and (b) was a loyal servent to the club over many years and clearly has a great deal of affection for us.

And (c) who had half a season here with half a side made up of loanees with nothing to really play for. Should have been given the summer to rebuild something. Probably would not have had a PO final season but would not have had to suffer the 2 seasons that followed and been a steadier squad without so much risk to FFP.

John Madejski's Wallet wrote:Sh*t at Reading, Sh*t at Sheff Utd.

7th when utterly shafted by the owner is hardly shit. Struggling for less than half a season, but less badly than most seasons since, when still shafted by the owner is also hardly a crime.

He didn't do that badly at Sheffield did he? The expectation was just a quick return and L1 can be difficult to get out of. Failed, yeah, disappointing, yeah. But shit is a bit overboard.

And it's still two stints to three even if he was shit in both as you claim.

Snowflake Royal wrote:

John Madejski's Wallet wrote:Sh*t at Reading, Sh*t at Sheff Utd.

7th when utterly shafted by the owner is hardly shit. Struggling for less than half a season, but less badly than most seasons since, when still shafted by the owner is also hardly a crime.

He didn't do that badly at Sheffield did he? The expectation was just a quick return and L1 can be difficult to get out of. Failed, yeah, disappointing, yeah. But shit is a bit overboard.

And it's still two stints to three even if he was shit in both as you claim.

People are very quick to forget that 7th for some reason. It's a bit like those who dismiss the 3rd place under Stam. It's as if good results don't count unless you *also* like the manager or team.

muirinho wrote:

Snowflake Royal wrote:

John Madejski's Wallet wrote:Sh*t at Reading, Sh*t at Sheff Utd.

7th when utterly shafted by the owner is hardly shit. Struggling for less than half a season, but less badly than most seasons since, when still shafted by the owner is also hardly a crime.

He didn't do that badly at Sheffield did he? The expectation was just a quick return and L1 can be difficult to get out of. Failed, yeah, disappointing, yeah. But shit is a bit overboard.

And it's still two stints to three even if he was shit in both as you claim.

People are very quick to forget that 7th for some reason. It's a bit like those who dismiss the 3rd place under Stam. It's as if good results don't count unless you *also* like the manager or team.

Stam's first season is an odd one. Because a lot of people weren't happy with the way we were playing and it didn't look sustainable. The table doesn't lie, but equally most our wins were tight and a lot of people felt fortunate getting them after a lot of the games.

So when you add that expectation, the terrible PO Final performance, the millions spunked over the summer and then how utterly abject we became so quickly, with very little action to do anything about it, it's understandable. I mean Stam was backed heavily. Adkins never was.

Admittedly we'll probably never know how shafted Stam was by Gourlay... it looks like he was well supported but maybe the prick completely ignored Stam and bought him utter shit and kicked out his better players against his wishes.

But then you look at the performances of Blackett, who was fine first season, fine third season but an absolute train wreck of a player second season. Can't see how that could be Gourlay's fault.

In hindsight he wasn’t as shit as the rest that followed. The fact that he talked utter utter shit kind of got a few people’s backs up.

His team played dreary over passing football.

And yes he was orange. Sorry lads you can’t get away from that.

We don’t need a DOF. Our current system is fine as it is, the manager says who he wants and submits to the board his list, from there I assume Nigel Howe negotiates the contract and the transfer fee. Having more people involved only increases the time it takes to sign a player.

TiagoIlori wrote:We don’t need a DOF. Our current system is fine as it is, the manager says who he wants and submits to the board his list, from there I assume Nigel Howe negotiates the contract and the transfer fee. Having more people involved only increases the time it takes to sign a player.

Or makes it quicker to sign multiple players in a short space of time, because you've got more people to spread the load on?

Snowflake Royal wrote:

TiagoIlori wrote:We don’t need a DOF. Our current system is fine as it is, the manager says who he wants and submits to the board his list, from there I assume Nigel Howe negotiates the contract and the transfer fee. Having more people involved only increases the time it takes to sign a player.

Or makes it quicker to sign multiple players in a short space of time, because you've got more people to spread the load on?

We don’t need to “spread the load”. Howe is responsible for the financial side of things and that responsibility is very unlikely to be shared. Gomes assumably talks to his scouting team and coaching team + Bowen before he submits his list of players he wants, we all know this. Having a DoF will only mean more time is needed as him and the manager would have to both agree on it, or else one will end up feeling undermined. This only makes things slower, there is absolutely no way we can make things happen more quickly in this scenario.

If it’s not close to being broken don’t try fix it.

TiagoIlori wrote:

Snowflake Royal wrote:

TiagoIlori wrote:We don’t need a DOF. Our current system is fine as it is, the manager says who he wants and submits to the board his list, from there I assume Nigel Howe negotiates the contract and the transfer fee. Having more people involved only increases the time it takes to sign a player.

Or makes it quicker to sign multiple players in a short space of time, because you've got more people to spread the load on?

We don’t need to “spread the load”. Howe is responsible for the financial side of things and that responsibility is very unlikely to be shared. Gomes assumably talks to his scouting team and coaching team + Bowen before he submits his list of players he wants, we all know this. Having a DoF will only mean more time is needed as him and the manager would have to both agree on it, or else one will end up feeling undermined. This only makes things slower, there is absolutely no way we can make things happen more quickly in this scenario.

If it’s not close to being broken don’t try fix it.

You seem bizarrely certain. Worked absolutely fine with Coppell, Hammond and Howe.

TiagoIlori wrote:

Snowflake Royal wrote:

TiagoIlori wrote:We don’t need a DOF. Our current system is fine as it is, the manager says who he wants and submits to the board his list, from there I assume Nigel Howe negotiates the contract and the transfer fee. Having more people involved only increases the time it takes to sign a player.

Or makes it quicker to sign multiple players in a short space of time, because you've got more people to spread the load on?

We don’t need to “spread the load”. Howe is responsible for the financial side of things and that responsibility is very unlikely to be shared. Gomes assumably talks to his scouting team and coaching team + Bowen before he submits his list of players he wants, we all know this. Having a DoF will only mean more time is needed as him and the manager would have to both agree on it, or else one will end up feeling undermined. This only makes things slower, there is absolutely no way we can make things happen more quickly in this scenario.

If it’s not close to being broken don’t try fix it.

Do you know what Bowen’s job entails ?
And given your first scenario involved Gomes and Bowen discussing players why would your second scenario which involves Gomes and Bowen discussing players be any more time consuming or difficult ?
Plus who do you think might recruit the list of layers Gomes agrees with Bowen ?

He lives in Yateley so he is just supporting his local team.

Snowflake Royal wrote:

TiagoIlori wrote:

Snowflake Royal wrote: Or makes it quicker to sign multiple players in a short space of time, because you've got more people to spread the load on?

We don’t need to “spread the load”. Howe is responsible for the financial side of things and that responsibility is very unlikely to be shared. Gomes assumably talks to his scouting team and coaching team + Bowen before he submits his list of players he wants, we all know this. Having a DoF will only mean more time is needed as him and the manager would have to both agree on it, or else one will end up feeling undermined. This only makes things slower, there is absolutely no way we can make things happen more quickly in this scenario.

If it’s not close to being broken don’t try fix it.

You seem bizarrely certain. Worked absolutely fine with Coppell, Hammond and Howe.

It can work yes, but I really don’t see the point in having a director of football here. Works both ways with the latter, it has clearly worked very well with just Gomes and Howe too.

Nameless wrote:

TiagoIlori wrote:

Snowflake Royal wrote: Or makes it quicker to sign multiple players in a short space of time, because you've got more people to spread the load on?

We don’t need to “spread the load”. Howe is responsible for the financial side of things and that responsibility is very unlikely to be shared. Gomes assumably talks to his scouting team and coaching team + Bowen before he submits his list of players he wants, we all know this. Having a DoF will only mean more time is needed as him and the manager would have to both agree on it, or else one will end up feeling undermined. This only makes things slower, there is absolutely no way we can make things happen more quickly in this scenario.

If it’s not close to being broken don’t try fix it.

Do you know what Bowen’s job entails ?
And given your first scenario involved Gomes and Bowen discussing players why would your second scenario which involves Gomes and Bowen discussing players be any more time consuming or difficult ?
Plus who do you think might recruit the list of layers Gomes agrees with Bowen ?

Answer to q1- Bowen said himself what he does, looking after the football club in general and advising Gomes. I’m not sure if he said transfers specifically, but I’d be inclined to believe Howe still handles the negotiations.
Q2+3- this would be the scenario of one extra man coming in. It’s been made quite clear over the last few years at least that Howe(was Gourlay until he left obviously) has the final say as both Stam and Gomes spoke about having these lists that they submit to the board and they don’t know when deals are happening until they start to happen. Possibly this is why Tevreden felt alienated as sounds the Chinese have changed how the senior levels function(?), with his relationship with Gourlay not helping.

so there's no issue then.

TiagoIlori wrote:

Snowflake Royal wrote:

TiagoIlori wrote: We don’t need to “spread the load”. Howe is responsible for the financial side of things and that responsibility is very unlikely to be shared. Gomes assumably talks to his scouting team and coaching team + Bowen before he submits his list of players he wants, we all know this. Having a DoF will only mean more time is needed as him and the manager would have to both agree on it, or else one will end up feeling undermined. This only makes things slower, there is absolutely no way we can make things happen more quickly in this scenario.

If it’s not close to being broken don’t try fix it.

You seem bizarrely certain. Worked absolutely fine with Coppell, Hammond and Howe.

It can work yes, but I really don’t see the point in having a director of football here. Works both ways with the latter, it has clearly worked very well with just Gomes and Howe too.

Our transfer dealings have not just involved Gomes and Howe though. We've had a much more complex process than that ! Gomes was barely involved in the January dealings.