Finance

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NewCorkSeth
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Re: Finance

by NewCorkSeth » 08 Apr 2020 09:47

https://twitter.com/KieranMaguire/statu ... 79874?s=09

Just saw this on the Twitter. I thought our wages were higher than that. Does this mean we are just doing an awful job at making money rather than we hand out terrible contracts?

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Re: Finance

by One87One » 08 Apr 2020 10:17

NewCorkSeth https://twitter.com/KieranMaguire/status/1247778318432079874?s=09

Just saw this on the Twitter. I thought our wages were higher than that. Does this mean we are just doing an awful job at making money rather than we hand out terrible contracts?


Still begs the question of why we haven't done a stadium naming rights deal. Last I heard, we had a potential suitor but the deal wasn't right for us, as if beggar's can't be choosers... I still thing there is more to it than that. It can't be that hard to nail down a sponsor, even if it be a short-term deal for less than we'd like. We need to be bringing in every possible penny we can. I'd love to hear from Nigel Howe about this.

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Re: Finance

by NewCorkSeth » 08 Apr 2020 10:19

One87One
NewCorkSeth https://twitter.com/KieranMaguire/status/1247778318432079874?s=09

Just saw this on the Twitter. I thought our wages were higher than that. Does this mean we are just doing an awful job at making money rather than we hand out terrible contracts?


Still begs the question of why we haven't done a stadium naming rights deal. Last I heard, we had a potential suitor but the deal wasn't right for us, as if beggar's can't be choosers... I still thing there is more to it than that. It can't be that hard to nail down a sponsor, even if it be a short-term deal for less than we'd like. We need to be bringing in every possible penny we can. I'd love to hear from Nigel Howe about this.

Is it our attendances that have oxf*rd us? Could it be as simple as convincing people to actually go to the fuxking games?

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Re: Finance

by SCIAG » 08 Apr 2020 10:51

NewCorkSeth https://twitter.com/KieranMaguire/status/1247778318432079874?s=09

Just saw this on the Twitter. I thought our wages were higher than that. Does this mean we are just doing an awful job at making money rather than we hand out terrible contracts?

Sorry, just how high did you think our wage bill was? An average wage of £19,000 a week is obscene. The only clubs paying significantly above that have parachute payments supporting them.

The 225% thing is obviously made worse because of our low attendances and low ticket prices but that wage bill is crazy no matter how you look at it.

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Re: Finance

by NewCorkSeth » 08 Apr 2020 11:00

SCIAG
NewCorkSeth https://twitter.com/KieranMaguire/status/1247778318432079874?s=09

Just saw this on the Twitter. I thought our wages were higher than that. Does this mean we are just doing an awful job at making money rather than we hand out terrible contracts?

Sorry, just how high did you think our wage bill was? An average wage of £19,000 a week is obscene. The only clubs paying significantly above that have parachute payments supporting them.

The 225% thing is obviously made worse because of our low attendances and low ticket prices but that wage bill is crazy no matter how you look at it.

9th highest in the league. Yeah its bad. Leeds higher, Wednesday higher. When I read that we had beaten Birmingham's record for wage compared to turnover I thought our wages must be significantly higher than that.

I had a thought that McCleary, Gunter and Mannone must be on 20kish each. Popa on a decent chunk, Aluko and Baldock probably amongst the highest earners along with Swift, Meite and Moore. We should have at least 70k a week coming off our wage bill when the first 4 leave on a free, sell Moore, Swift, Meite, Aluko and Baldock (if we can) and our wages drop to a sustainable level.


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Re: Finance

by One87One » 08 Apr 2020 11:10

NewCorkSeth
One87One
NewCorkSeth https://twitter.com/KieranMaguire/status/1247778318432079874?s=09

Just saw this on the Twitter. I thought our wages were higher than that. Does this mean we are just doing an awful job at making money rather than we hand out terrible contracts?


Still begs the question of why we haven't done a stadium naming rights deal. Last I heard, we had a potential suitor but the deal wasn't right for us, as if beggar's can't be choosers... I still thing there is more to it than that. It can't be that hard to nail down a sponsor, even if it be a short-term deal for less than we'd like. We need to be bringing in every possible penny we can. I'd love to hear from Nigel Howe about this.

Is it our attendances that have oxf*rd us? Could it be as simple as convincing people to actually go to the fuxking games?


So in that respect I still feel we need to hear from the owners and hear what their vision for the club is. They need to be selling their ambition to the fans to get fans dreaming again. IMO there still feels there is a huge disconnect between the club and the fans.

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Re: Finance

by NewCorkSeth » 08 Apr 2020 11:23

One87One
NewCorkSeth
One87One
Still begs the question of why we haven't done a stadium naming rights deal. Last I heard, we had a potential suitor but the deal wasn't right for us, as if beggar's can't be choosers... I still thing there is more to it than that. It can't be that hard to nail down a sponsor, even if it be a short-term deal for less than we'd like. We need to be bringing in every possible penny we can. I'd love to hear from Nigel Howe about this.

Is it our attendances that have oxf*rd us? Could it be as simple as convincing people to actually go to the fuxking games?


So in that respect I still feel we need to hear from the owners and hear what their vision for the club is. They need to be selling their ambition to the fans to get fans dreaming again. IMO there still feels there is a huge disconnect between the club and the fans.

Tough sell. I dont think many of us fans are dumb enough to hear "We want to bring this club to where it belongs, The Premier League" and believe it. They did a good job in getting the food trucks in. That seemed smart. Would more shuttle buses help? I'm not local so don't know.

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Re: Finance

by Hound » 08 Apr 2020 11:56

NewCorkSeth
SCIAG
NewCorkSeth https://twitter.com/KieranMaguire/status/1247778318432079874?s=09

Just saw this on the Twitter. I thought our wages were higher than that. Does this mean we are just doing an awful job at making money rather than we hand out terrible contracts?

Sorry, just how high did you think our wage bill was? An average wage of £19,000 a week is obscene. The only clubs paying significantly above that have parachute payments supporting them.

The 225% thing is obviously made worse because of our low attendances and low ticket prices but that wage bill is crazy no matter how you look at it.

9th highest in the league. Yeah its bad. Leeds higher, Wednesday higher. When I read that we had beaten Birmingham's record for wage compared to turnover I thought our wages must be significantly higher than that.

I had a thought that McCleary, Gunter and Mannone must be on 20kish each. Popa on a decent chunk, Aluko and Baldock probably amongst the highest earners along with Swift, Meite and Moore. We should have at least 70k a week coming off our wage bill when the first 4 leave on a free, sell Moore, Swift, Meite, Aluko and Baldock (if we can) and our wages drop to a sustainable level.


We do at least have sellable assets now and as you say, a huge chunk coming off the wage bill this summer. Selling Moore if possible would make sense. Obvs get rid of Aluko if at all possible

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Re: Finance

by NewCorkSeth » 08 Apr 2020 12:03

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NewCorkSeth
SCIAG Sorry, just how high did you think our wage bill was? An average wage of £19,000 a week is obscene. The only clubs paying significantly above that have parachute payments supporting them.

The 225% thing is obviously made worse because of our low attendances and low ticket prices but that wage bill is crazy no matter how you look at it.

9th highest in the league. Yeah its bad. Leeds higher, Wednesday higher. When I read that we had beaten Birmingham's record for wage compared to turnover I thought our wages must be significantly higher than that.

I had a thought that McCleary, Gunter and Mannone must be on 20kish each. Popa on a decent chunk, Aluko and Baldock probably amongst the highest earners along with Swift, Meite and Moore. We should have at least 70k a week coming off our wage bill when the first 4 leave on a free, sell Moore, Swift, Meite, Aluko and Baldock (if we can) and our wages drop to a sustainable level.


We do at least have sellable assets now and as you say, a huge chunk coming off the wage bill this summer. Selling Moore if possible would make sense. Obvs get rid of Aluko if at all possible

Exactly, I thought our situation was much, much worse. Don't get me wrong it is bad! Just not as bad as I thought.

The players listed above must count for something like 150-180k a week in wages. If we can sell Swift, Meite, Aluko, Baldock and Moore then we will be shite but at least we can sort of hit the reset button.


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Re: Finance

by Zip » 08 Apr 2020 12:06

Selling Moore does make sense but it leaves us very short at centre back because I cannot see how we could afford another loan of Miazga unless Chelsea pay his wages. That leaves us with Morrison and McIntyre. The latter is good enough but does pick up his share of injuries. I think Osho’s contract expires this summer too.

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Re: Finance

by WestYorksRoyal » 08 Apr 2020 12:39

Back in the day, Hammond, McDermott and co. would have already scouted the lower leagues for a good, affordable replacement for Moore or Swift. We'll see where we're at now. If we sold them only to spunk a load of money on a replacement, it defeats the point. Ejaria and Olise show a succession plan for Swift, but it's easy to remember he is 3 - 5 years ahead of them both in his development, and it shows in his decision making and consistency.

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Re: Finance

by Hendo » 08 Apr 2020 12:46

We aren't the only ones to be fair...

Leeds posted losses of £21.4m in Marcelo Bielsa's first season, with the Championship club's accounts showing wages rocketed during the 2018/19 campaign.


https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11715/11970439/leeds-lost-21m-in-marcelo-bielsas-first-season

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Re: Finance

by Snowflake Royal » 08 Apr 2020 12:48

Stranded
Zip
Stranded Need to remember a 40m loss is not necessarily a 40m FFP loss. That should be considerably less.


Can you expand on this Stranded. I don’t know the ins and outs of all of this.


There is quite an extensive list of allowable losses that are not included in the calc - I don't have the full list to hand but these include costs of running a youth academy amongst others

Capital investment such as building a training ground or stadium too.


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Re: Finance

by Snowflake Royal » 08 Apr 2020 12:52

Hendo
One87One We really need to go back to buying young hungry players from L1 and L2, and then add a semi expensive player as and when we can get them. It's a joke the likes of Moore are on around 30k a week at this level. Does he really warrant that money? I don't think so. Get back to our old successful model ASAP.


Buying people like McNulty and then writing him off after 6 months? Sounds great!

Correct. He shouldn't have been written off.

Rather than sign Barrow, Ilori, Blackett, Meyler, Mannone, Aluko, Joao, Puscas, Boye, Ejaria, Bacuna, etc etc.

We should have kept and used Dickie, Hyam, Howe, Nova, McNulty, Keown, Southwood, Ward, Olise, Stacey, Evans, Kelly, Tshibola, etc etc.

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Re: Finance

by NewCorkSeth » 08 Apr 2020 12:54

Zip Selling Moore does make sense but it leaves us very short at centre back because I cannot see how we could afford another loan of Miazga unless Chelsea pay his wages. That leaves us with Morrison and McIntyre. The latter is good enough but does pick up his share of injuries. I think Osho’s contract expires this summer too.

Christ I forgot Blackett! He must be on 10kish. Another saving made. There are other loans possible.

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Re: Finance

by NewCorkSeth » 08 Apr 2020 12:56

WestYorksRoyal Back in the day, Hammond, McDermott and co. would have already scouted the lower leagues for a good, affordable replacement for Moore or Swift. We'll see where we're at now. If we sold them only to spunk a load of money on a replacement, it defeats the point. Ejaria and Olise show a succession plan for Swift, but it's easy to remember he is 3 - 5 years ahead of them both in his development, and it shows in his decision making and consistency.

At least we have some succession! Better than nothing. Probably means well spend a few more season being dick though.

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Re: Finance

by Hound » 08 Apr 2020 13:02

Snowflake Royal
Hendo
One87One We really need to go back to buying young hungry players from L1 and L2, and then add a semi expensive player as and when we can get them. It's a joke the likes of Moore are on around 30k a week at this level. Does he really warrant that money? I don't think so. Get back to our old successful model ASAP.


Buying people like McNulty and then writing him off after 6 months? Sounds great!

Correct. He shouldn't have been written off.

Rather than sign Barrow, Ilori, Blackett, Meyler, Mannone, Aluko, Joao, Puscas, Boye, Ejaria, Bacuna, etc etc.

We should have kept and used Dickie, Hyam, Howe, Nova, McNulty, Keown, Southwood, Ward, Olise, Stacey, Evans, Kelly, Tshibola, etc etc.


Think we were right to cash in on Tish. We did use Kelly and by the end it was worth just getting rid of his wage. Evans likewise. But get the overall point - been too quick to write off academy lads and sign similar quality replacements for far more money

Been some horrendous decisions made over the last few years in retrospect. Not one or two, but tens of them

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Re: Finance

by NewCorkSeth » 08 Apr 2020 13:41

Hound
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Hendo
Buying people like McNulty and then writing him off after 6 months? Sounds great!

Correct. He shouldn't have been written off.

Rather than sign Barrow, Ilori, Blackett, Meyler, Mannone, Aluko, Joao, Puscas, Boye, Ejaria, Bacuna, etc etc.

We should have kept and used Dickie, Hyam, Howe, Nova, McNulty, Keown, Southwood, Ward, Olise, Stacey, Evans, Kelly, Tshibola, etc etc.


Think we were right to cash in on Tish. We did use Kelly and by the end it was worth just getting rid of his wage. Evans likewise. But get the overall point - been too quick to write off academy lads and sign similar quality replacements for far more money

Been some horrendous decisions made over the last few years in retrospect. Not one or two, but tens of them

So, should we be selling and looking to use Holsgrove, Odimayo, Burley, House, Holmes, Smith, East, Watson, Osho, Southwood, CBC et al?

Because its easy to say in hindsight we should have used all those academy players.

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Re: Finance

by Hound » 08 Apr 2020 14:10

NewCorkSeth
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Snowflake Royal Correct. He shouldn't have been written off.

Rather than sign Barrow, Ilori, Blackett, Meyler, Mannone, Aluko, Joao, Puscas, Boye, Ejaria, Bacuna, etc etc.

We should have kept and used Dickie, Hyam, Howe, Nova, McNulty, Keown, Southwood, Ward, Olise, Stacey, Evans, Kelly, Tshibola, etc etc.


Think we were right to cash in on Tish. We did use Kelly and by the end it was worth just getting rid of his wage. Evans likewise. But get the overall point - been too quick to write off academy lads and sign similar quality replacements for far more money

Been some horrendous decisions made over the last few years in retrospect. Not one or two, but tens of them

So, should we be selling and looking to use Holsgrove, Odimayo, Burley, House, Holmes, Smith, East, Watson, Osho, Southwood, CBC et al?

Because its easy to say in hindsight we should have used all those academy players.


We've used the academy lads fairly well this year. But absolutely we should be using Olise, McIntyre, Southwood, Andresson and possibly Osho. Most of the others aren't up to it from what I've seen (CBC and Holsgrove looked decent tbf), but then you keep an eye on Nevers, Dorsett etc

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Re: Finance

by NewCorkSeth » 08 Apr 2020 14:16

Hound
NewCorkSeth
Hound
Think we were right to cash in on Tish. We did use Kelly and by the end it was worth just getting rid of his wage. Evans likewise. But get the overall point - been too quick to write off academy lads and sign similar quality replacements for far more money

Been some horrendous decisions made over the last few years in retrospect. Not one or two, but tens of them

So, should we be selling and looking to use Holsgrove, Odimayo, Burley, House, Holmes, Smith, East, Watson, Osho, Southwood, CBC et al?

Because its easy to say in hindsight we should have used all those academy players.


We've used the academy lads fairly well this year. But absolutely we should be using Olise, McIntyre, Southwood, Andresson and possibly Osho. Most of the others aren't up to it from what I've seen (CBC and Holsgrove looked decent tbf), but then you keep an eye on Nevers, Dorsett etc

I agree we have done well this season with utlising our academy. Largely helped by Olise being a star. But my point in large was its easy to say a deal is bad 2 years down the line. How will we know who will become the next big regret? I mean, Watson isnt highly rated. If he goes on to succeed how many on here will say "we should have used him instead of buy xyz"

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