by andrew1957 » 18 Aug 2009 18:53
by West Stand Flash » 18 Aug 2009 18:59
by YateleyRoyal » 18 Aug 2009 19:05
West Stand Flash How dare you try to slate Madeski on this board, it is not allowed. Slating or even slightly knocking anything related to RFC is just not allowed.
The bloke got us in the best position we have ever been in, then did what he wanted all along, filled his pockets, kept everything & took our team one way & one way only. Towards League 1.
John Madejski = W@nker
by Royalee » 18 Aug 2009 19:06
andrew1957 Oh Royalee - the irony of it all. For the last 3 years you have consistently slagged me off for being too optimistic and now you are doing so for me being too pessimistic!!
If you actually read what I said I never said we had sold "all" our experienced players - I said we had released or sold a succession of them (around 10 at the current count).
I have been guilty of being too positive during the last two seasons. I really believed we would survive in the PL and we very nearly did. I really believed we would get promoted last season and I still cannot believe that we did not. Just a couple of wins against bottom sides and we would have been.
Now I am concerned. The Championship is a hard division. Typically it takes about 74 points to guarantee a play off place and it can take over 50 points to guarantee survival - that is about 8 wins over 46 games between possible promotion and relegation. I have every right to be concerned. I hope you are right. I have always been a great supporter of our young players and I think we would probably have gone up last year if we had played more of these rather than bringing back Kitson and Little - which was ridiculous. BUT you need experienced Championship players when everything is going wrong in the bleak mid winter and a few injuries to young players have happened.
I hope that you are right that we have plenty of defensive cover but with Armstrong off to see the specialist and being as injury prone as he is - will he play this season - or will it be a repeat of Murty? How severe is Kelly's injury? Do you really want Gunnar in defense - he was good cover 4 seasons ago but is older now - fine in midfield but not in defense. Do you really want Cisse at the back all year when I believe he is one of our most effective midfielders.
Of course I would rather we paid just 1.2 milion for Smith, but my point was that this should have been sorted weeks ago and if he makes the difference between survival and relegation then £600K more is a snip.
And by the way I am a successful businessman already - not a waster student. I am not sure it is me who is the buffoon.
by 79Royal » 18 Aug 2009 19:08
andrew1957 I have in no way been critical of the player sales that have happened. Doyle, Bikey and Hunt all deserve another crack at the PL. I have not criticised the management for past policies BUT IMO consistently putting out a team with an average age of 23 or less is risky. If it works then brilliant -but if results go the wrong way for a period then many clubs who have tried this have ended up at the wrong end of their respective league table and relegation is then a risk. Southampton last season are a good example. Several good young players - some of whom have now moved on to better clubs - but they just did not win enough games.
When the going gets tough having sufficient experience in the squad is vital and IMO we need to buy some more experience in to the club.
Having said this I am still hopeful of a win tonight and then we will all feel a lot better.
by Victor Meldrew » 18 Aug 2009 19:18
by Royal Rob » 18 Aug 2009 19:32
by Agent Balti » 18 Aug 2009 19:35
by YateleyRoyal » 18 Aug 2009 19:39
Agent Balti I'm almost bored of writing the same thing, but I'll repeat it again. Name me any club, anywhere you like, that has dropped a division and NOT sold it's HIGHEST paid players by the 2nd season after relegation. Double Dare. You won't find one. Why? Because they are expensive. Week in, week out, 30k here, 30k there...it all adds up.
Yes, we took a punt last year - the club gave Doyle and Hunt new contracts to placate their desire to play at the highest level. That was the last roll of the dice. (Some may say we only did that because the manager had his head in the sand and refused to think that the squad needed tinkering...)
This season, we are DOWN on Season Tickets, and we are avoiding using the parachute money at all costs. Why? Because getting back up to the Premier League this year will be super hard and that money is needed for other seasons than this. Why? Because you cannot keep unhappy players. Why? Because we cannot afford the wages. Why? Revenue is down. Why? Because we were relegated two years ago (and the rot had to stop) Why? Because we stagnated as a team a long, long time ago.
There are so many reasons it's frankly staggering. It's not about any mythical balancing of the books or necessarily making a profit. A lot of the players have moved on because of wages. Why else would we get rid of Hahnemann, Murty, Lita, et all...old, expensive or just plain old. Hunt moved on because he's a mercenary, Bikey because he wants a crack at getting into the World Cup squad, Doyle we effectively 'owed' because he stayed when he could have gone the season prior. Last season was our best shot at getting back up and it didn't pay off. We now have to pay for not making it.
Don't forget we 'bought' Rodgers and his backroom staff. We've paid big money for Mills. We'll still pay decent money for another couple *cough*...but don't expect the same ins than outs because it won't happen. Big money = Big wages and that's what the club are obviously trying to avoid. This new look Reading is starting from scratch. Anyone with a modicum of sense can see what we're trying to do, no scrap, that HAVE to do. If anyone feels defrauded by the clubs actions since we lost out against Burnley then fine, send your letter...but think about it, would Brendan have joined if Madejski said "Look, we have to cut down the wage bill....so I'm selling anything that has two legs. So Ron Grant and Fred Neate are given frees." NO...what was most likely said was "...from the money we get from transfers, you'll get a slice but we're back to building brick by brick, just like we did before." (Don't forget that we don't get ALL the transfer money in one go either.) I'm 100% certain that Rodgers is not given a table bashing remit to get us back into the Premiership NOW or toys will be thrown. He knows just as well you should that this is another long haul back to the top table.
I gave the club huge amounts of stick when we didn't speculate to accumulate when we were in a position to, but now we have to *grits teeth* cut our cloth accordingly. At a financial level, it's not being bloody minded, it's not asset stripping - it's wages saving and selling stock at a prime rate. At a football level, you can't keep players who want to play elsewhere or don't want to play for us at all. At a fan level, it's understanding that nothing can stay the same, something has to give. Though I'd hazard a guess that if we beat Forest and didn't lose against Newcastle there wouldn't be an open letter. Get on board, because it's not changing any time soon.
Fin.
by West Stand Flash » 18 Aug 2009 19:45
Agent Balti I'm almost bored of writing the same thing, but I'll repeat it again. Name me any club, anywhere you like, that has dropped a division and NOT sold it's HIGHEST paid players by the 2nd season after relegation. Double Dare. You won't find one. Why? Because they are expensive. Week in, week out, 30k here, 30k there...it all adds up.
Yes, we took a punt last year - the club gave Doyle and Hunt new contracts to placate their desire to play at the highest level. That was the last roll of the dice. (Some may say we only did that because the manager had his head in the sand and refused to think that the squad needed tinkering...)
This season, we are DOWN on Season Tickets, and we are avoiding using the parachute money at all costs. Why? Because getting back up to the Premier League this year will be super hard and that money is needed for other seasons than this. Why? Because you cannot keep unhappy players. Why? Because we cannot afford the wages. Why? Revenue is down. Why? Because we were relegated two years ago (and the rot had to stop) Why? Because we stagnated as a team a long, long time ago.
There are so many reasons it's frankly staggering. It's not about any mythical balancing of the books or necessarily making a profit. A lot of the players have moved on because of wages. Why else would we get rid of Hahnemann, Murty, Lita, et all...old, expensive or just plain old. Hunt moved on because he's a mercenary, Bikey because he wants a crack at getting into the World Cup squad, Doyle we effectively 'owed' because he stayed when he could have gone the season prior. Last season was our best shot at getting back up and it didn't pay off. We now have to pay for not making it.
Don't forget we 'bought' Rodgers and his backroom staff. We've paid big money for Mills. We'll still pay decent money for another couple *cough*...but don't expect the same ins than outs because it won't happen. Big money = Big wages and that's what the club are obviously trying to avoid. This new look Reading is starting from scratch. Anyone with a modicum of sense can see what we're trying to do, no scrap, that HAVE to do. If anyone feels defrauded by the clubs actions since we lost out against Burnley then fine, send your letter...but think about it, would Brendan have joined if Madejski said "Look, we have to cut down the wage bill....so I'm selling anything that has two legs. So Ron Grant and Fred Neate are given frees." NO...what was most likely said was "...from the money we get from transfers, you'll get a slice but we're back to building brick by brick, just like we did before." (Don't forget that we don't get ALL the transfer money in one go either.) I'm 100% certain that Rodgers is not given a table bashing remit to get us back into the Premiership NOW or toys will be thrown. He knows just as well you should that this is another long haul back to the top table.
I gave the club huge amounts of stick when we didn't speculate to accumulate when we were in a position to, but now we have to *grits teeth* cut our cloth accordingly. At a financial level, it's not being bloody minded, it's not asset stripping - it's wages saving and selling stock at a prime rate. At a football level, you can't keep players who want to play elsewhere or don't want to play for us at all. At a fan level, it's understanding that nothing can stay the same, something has to give. Though I'd hazard a guess that if we beat Forest and didn't lose against Newcastle there wouldn't be an open letter. Get on board, because it's not changing any time soon.
Fin.
by Agent Balti » 18 Aug 2009 19:57
West Stand Flash West Brom for starters.
The rest of your post bored me.
by West Stand Flash » 18 Aug 2009 20:15
Agent BaltiWest Stand Flash West Brom for starters.
The rest of your post bored me.
Where's Dervitte, Flash? Oh...
by prostak » 18 Aug 2009 22:00
by papereyes » 19 Aug 2009 09:49
Someone takes the time and effort to post what is a heartfelt if not necessarily completely coherent rant (and we all rant on here, however you want to dress it up), and out come the sanctimonious, holier-than-thou brigade.
It's just an opinion. And until proven otherwise, an equally valid pov to any here. Can we just lighten a little, please?
by andrew1957 » 19 Aug 2009 10:10
Victor Meldrew Heartfelt emotions well put Andrew.
I have noticed your strong RTG stance in the past so it has taken something for you to "come out".
I felt like this 17 months ago when the club decided not to spend any significant money to keep us in the Premiership but now have come to terms with the fact that we are now an unambitious selling club as we have been for most of the very many years that I have been following our club.
Mr Mad has just become too scared of the economics involved with staying in The Premiership-I don't criticise him for that because as sole owner (how I wish that we fans could really have some input into our club greater than what we can do now)he can do what he likes.
The idea that suddenly the Academy can provide the nucleus of a team to attempt promotion is naive in the extreme-the dictum of "you never win anything with kids" has proved correct all but on one famous occasion.
Royalee's slating of Andrew is needless-everything in the garden is not rosy and although there is a long season ahead the early signs are not that good and it is clear to most of us (as it was 17 months ago at the different level)that the squad needs strengthening.
We haven't won a home game this year-that's a diabolical record and the fans have accepted the performances far better than might have been expected so it's no surprise that season ticket sales are down.
Fortunately there are a few days left in this transfer window so we might actually sign a couple and keep our fingers crossed that no more are sold.
by Royal Lady » 19 Aug 2009 10:13
Laughable. Schards was proven pretty much spot on with his Dull and Uninspiring comments for a start.Ian Royal We have so many nominees for the 2009/10 Schards Ill-advised Over-reacting Kneejerk Trophy it is unbelieveable
by andrew1957 » 19 Aug 2009 10:27
Agent Balti I'm almost bored of writing the same thing, but I'll repeat it again. Name me any club, anywhere you like, that has dropped a division and NOT sold it's HIGHEST paid players by the 2nd season after relegation. Double Dare. You won't find one. Why? Because they are expensive. Week in, week out, 30k here, 30k there...it all adds up.
Yes, we took a punt last year - the club gave Doyle and Hunt new contracts to placate their desire to play at the highest level. That was the last roll of the dice. (Some may say we only did that because the manager had his head in the sand and refused to think that the squad needed tinkering...)
This season, we are DOWN on Season Tickets, and we are avoiding using the parachute money at all costs. Why? Because getting back up to the Premier League this year will be super hard and that money is needed for other seasons than this. Why? Because you cannot keep unhappy players. Why? Because we cannot afford the wages. Why? Revenue is down. Why? Because we were relegated two years ago (and the rot had to stop) Why? Because we stagnated as a team a long, long time ago.
There are so many reasons it's frankly staggering. It's not about any mythical balancing of the books or necessarily making a profit. A lot of the players have moved on because of wages. Why else would we get rid of Hahnemann, Murty, Lita, et all...old, expensive or just plain old. Hunt moved on because he's a mercenary, Bikey because he wants a crack at getting into the World Cup squad, Doyle we effectively 'owed' because he stayed when he could have gone the season prior. Last season was our best shot at getting back up and it didn't pay off. We now have to pay for not making it.
Don't forget we 'bought' Rodgers and his backroom staff. We've paid big money for Mills. We'll still pay decent money for another couple *cough*...but don't expect the same ins than outs because it won't happen. Big money = Big wages and that's what the club are obviously trying to avoid. This new look Reading is starting from scratch. Anyone with a modicum of sense can see what we're trying to do, no scrap that, HAVE to do. If anyone feels defrauded by the clubs actions since we lost out against Burnley then fine, send your letter...but think about it, would Brendan have joined if Madejski said "Look, we have to cut down the wage bill....so I'm selling anything that has two legs. So Ron Grant and Fred Neate are given frees." NO...what was most likely said was "...from the money we get from transfers, you'll get a slice but we're back to building brick by brick, just like we did before." (Don't forget that we don't get ALL the transfer money in one go either.) I'm 100% certain that Rodgers is not given a table bashing remit to get us back into the Premiership NOW or toys will be thrown. He knows just as well you should that this is another long haul back to the top table.
I gave the club huge amounts of stick when we didn't speculate to accumulate when we were in a position to, but now we have to *grits teeth* cut our cloth accordingly. At a financial level, it's not being bloody minded, it's not asset stripping - it's wages saving and selling stock at a prime rate. At a football level, you can't keep players who want to play elsewhere or don't want to play for us at all. At a fan level, it's understanding that nothing can stay the same, something has to give. Though I'd hazard a guess that if we beat Forest and didn't lose against Newcastle there wouldn't be an open letter. Get on board, because it's not changing any time soon.
Fin.
by ElmParker » 19 Aug 2009 10:57
papereyesSomeone takes the time and effort to post what is a heartfelt if not necessarily completely coherent rant (and we all rant on here, however you want to dress it up), and out come the sanctimonious, holier-than-thou brigade.
It's just an opinion. And until proven otherwise, an equally valid pov to any here. Can we just lighten a little, please?
I think it might just be the contrast between that post and the sanctimonious "Get behind the team, 7 CUP FINALS!!!!!!1111!!!lllLLLL" bollocks he drizzled over the board for the last 3 years.
Maybe.
by Who Moved The Goalposts? » 19 Aug 2009 11:02
ElmParker
That and the presumption of writing an ‘open letter’ that begins: “If you ever do venture on to these pages you will know that I have been a keen supporter of all that you have done for the club over the years.”
I'm guessing that, one, he doesn't come on here; two, he isn’t all that au-fait with andrew1957’s views on anything; and, three, he rightly doesn’t give a f*ck what us legion of unqualified halfwits think about running a football club.
by yuomi » 19 Aug 2009 11:08
starbugandrew1957 Dear Sir John
If you ever do venture on to these pages you will know that I have been a keen supporter of all that you have done for the club over the years. I try to look on the positive side and have frequently been vilified as one wearing rose tinted spectacles.
I accepted the decision not to straighten the squad in the January 2008 transfer window - but fear this cost us our place in the PL.
I supported the club in its transfer policy last season, but like all our fans I was dismayed by our capitulation in the second half of the season.
I started this season with great expectation and not a little excitement as I agreed totally that Brendan Rodgers is the man for the job of getting us back to the PL again, but I am now becoming increasingly concerned.
We seem to be selling or releasing a succession of our more senior professionals, but not replacing them with anyone with experience. We have some fantastic young talent but a tough Championship season will also require some toughened older players to be included in our squads along the way.
As for the saga over Tommy Smith - that is becoming embarrassing. We sold 28 year old Stephen Hunt for over 3 million and yet seem to be baulking at paying a decent proportion of that amount for Smith - as he is the ripe old age of 29! Surely the negotiation could be sorted out more quickly than the two months or so it has rumbled on. We need players with more experience and he fits the bill. If it takes 1.8 million then so be it.
We also need more defensive options. Two of our 4 full backs are injured and we need to replace Bikey, so that Cisse can return to his defensive midfield duties as although Tabb and Karacan are excellent players, we need more bite in that area and Cisse offers size and strength.
I have not given up hope that we will strengthen the squad considerably by 31st August. I believe you will authorise this, but I just wanted to warn you that if not the likelihood is that the target for this season will be to just survive in this division and nothing more. In that case I expect even more fans to desert the club and disillusionment to increase substantially.
I look forward to positive news in the near future.
Absolutely Pathetic.
This season is fascinating - quite possibly the best young team outside the Prem, we really have a chance to earn a reputation for good football and good youngsters encouraging future young players to want to play for us and sustaining that reputation and high level of football for years to come.
Players haven't been sold simply because of money (except Hunt), they simply wanted to play in the Premier but more importantly we have great young prospects to replace them so its an easy decision to let them go and I totally agree with every sale so far.
The future is bright at Reading, very bright, we may not get promoted this season but we're in position to sustain a play off challenge for at least the next few years.
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