Long - Time to go.

[Ian Royal]

PS I LOVE it that you're stalking me.

You're so much prettier than the man with the plastic tree.

I'm not stalking you, Snowball, it's a discussion board. Feel free to count our relative responses on this and other threads, if you wish.

You can't oxf*rd miss him if you read and post on Team at the moment.

[Snowball]

I love it when you talk discussy

[Hampshire Royal]

PS I LOVE it that you're stalking me.

You're so much prettier than the man with the plastic tree.

Bitch!!

You never answered my earlier question about which degrees you have, what classes and where and when you graduated.

[Vision]

Depends on your aspiration surely. If we're content to just be average then a list of numbers that shows us such is probably ok. If we're looking to make the play-offs then surely being "average" isnt good enough. I'm assuming you're still coming from the perspective of thinking we'll get relegated in which case you may have a point that "average" might be what we're looking for.

BUT YOU MISS A FUNDAMENTAL POINT. our current style is to keep the opposition quiet, and not-to-concede. That means we are less adventurous for the first 60 minutes. That's why, although we are SEVENTH TOP SCORERS (reading this thread you would think we're 17th) we are third or fourth-best defence and third best on goal-difference which has a predictabilty of final position above 90%

Watford have scored 26 goals. They are 9th! Why? Because they play attacking football and let in a lot of goals.

We play somewhere in between, and prefer to go for a win than settle for a draw.

Swansea are 11th-top scorers, Coventry are 9th-top-scorers but they lie in 3rd and 4th in the table.

Thats not our "current style" really though is it? Keeping it tight early on in the odd specific away game might be the case but McDermott is always talking about playing on the front foot from the start especially at home. Early goals in the last 2 games would suggest this.

Unless you think it was part of our masterplan on Saturday for Long to mess up his free header plus his two 1-on-1's or for Tabb to also not get even a shot away with his great chance. We had as many chances in the 1st half as we did in the 2nd but the difference was that we took them with different personnel on the pitch. And thats the crux of the matter. Long does do a job for the team (despite your constant paranoid defending of him on here, most people do accept that) but you're blinkered beyond belief if you think that he himself doesn't think he needs to start scoring from open play, let alone McDermott and the fans. His lack of confidence in front of goal was there for all to see on Saturday.

We were bailed out on Saturday because A) we are an incredibly fit side, B) we have a great team spirit and C) we have a squad depth thats better than many seem to think.

It should be pointed out that our 4 & 3 figures on this list are for Kebe and Mills so I'm not entiely sure what they have to do with Shane Long. If there are 19 players who already have 5 and Long only has 2 then how many players have more goals than him. All your quoted "facts" tell us is that there are at least 40 players in this division who have scored more goals than Long this season. Given that you've said if he gets 10 he will score more than most strikers in this division it doesn't exactly push home that point does it?

And it could easily be 3 Long, 2 Mills if Mills had let Long's back-heel go over the line. Some say it had gone over the line.

We should NEVER measure a team by it's star goal-scorer, but by the team's OVERALL scoring, and whether it also keeps it tight at the back. We let in 5 goals in our first 4 games, 3 in the latest. In the 9 goals between we conceded just 6 while scoring 13.

It's a very good sign when a team is getting a decent sum of goals and the goals are spread round. It makes it much harder to mark a goal-scorer out of the game as sides had started to do with kebe.

And the figures for all the other teams strikers COULD be different as well but we can't possibly know that. Its why stats dont tell the whole picture even though you keep feeding them to us as if they do.

I agree we shouldn't measure a team by the stats on a star striker or on one individual but by definition a star striker does have to contribute goals especially from open play as the side has a perfectly adequate dead ball specialist in your mate Mr Harte. You're the one that constantly spams us with Long and Gylfi stats so perhaps you'd be best served taking your own advice or at least directing it to the person that produced these particular stats and seemed to think they somehow proved a point.

I agree again about the merits of not having just a single goal threat. However to be a goal threat you either have to get yourself into goal scoring positions and if/when you do take the chances presented to you. Problem is Long isn't really a goal threat at this time so its adding that pressure/responsibility onto other parts of the team. As you alluded to on another thread we have a really tough run of fixtures coming up and if we're to continue as play-off contenders then I think Long needs to start adding goals. If he can, then he'll be a very good striker for this level but from what I've seen recently he's a fair way off.

[Snowball]

We should remind ourselves the following.

(a) We are a close seventh in terms of goals, just 4 goals behind QPR and they have been AWESOME.

(b) We are joint third defensively, two goals worse than Cardiff, who are top.

(c) We are joint third on goal difference, sixth, still slowly climbing the table, whereas Norwich and Watford, and Burnley (a bit) are slipping.

God knows how, but that's where we are.


Can there really be that much wrong?

Here's a nice statistic. Over the last 11 games, after that yuck LDD start, we have earned just one less point than QPR. We were 7 points and 17 places behind them before the Leicester game now we are 8 points and 4 places behind them.


Maybe we are OK after all...

[Hugo Boss]

Yes, we are OK. But to be "AWESOME", we need our No.1* striker to be someone who actually does what strikers are supposed to i.e. score goals.

* Not my view of course but it seems to be the view of McDermott.

[Snowball]

Yes, we are OK. But to be "AWESOME", we need our No.1* striker to be someone who actually does what strikers are supposed to i.e. score goals.

* Not my view of course but it seems to be the view of McDermott.

REALLY? Where does it say that if you score more than the other side
but it wasn't the number 8-9 or 10 who scored, the goals are worth less?

In 2004/5 Dave Kitson scored 19 goals, 38% of the club's TOTAL goals, a miserable 50 goals.

With no striker "going big" so far this season, after 14 games we have 22 goals, and are on target for 72 goals


As for your asterisk, hasn't McDermott been bigging up Shane and saying he's not worried bout his goal-count?

[Hugo Boss]

Oh just f*ck off with the stats for once, please. Fact is, as I stated, Long was poor on Saturday. When he went off, the game changed completely.

Genuine FACTS > Ridiculous stats.

[super darren caskey]

Oh just f*ck off with the stats for once, please. Fact is, as I stated, Long was poor on Saturday. When he went off, the game changed completely.

Genuine FACTS > Ridiculous stats.

+1

[brendywendy]

Oh just f*ck off with the stats for once, please. Fact is, as I stated, Long was poor on Saturday. When he went off, the game changed completely.

Genuine FACTS > Ridiculous stats.

LOL!


youve managed to anger the least angry bloke i know snowball- good work!

[Snowball]

Oh just f*ck off with the stats for once, please. Fact is, as I stated, Long was poor on Saturday. When he went off, the game changed completely.

Genuine FACTS > Ridiculous stats.

BIGGEST STAT 4-5-1 was changed to 4-4-2 and manager said "Just keep throwing crosses into the box"

= DIFFERENT STYLE

Please try to engage brain.

[Snowball]

There is a list of ALL Championship Strikers on line, how many goals so far this season.

This lot have scored ZERO GOALS

0, TOMMY SMITH, QPR 0 (9)
0, MARLON KING, Coventry 1 (3) (1 Million?)
0 Nathan Tyson, Forest 3 (7)
0, Mark Cullen, Hull City 3 (11)
0, Dele Adebola, Forest 1 (9)
0, Pablo Counago, Palace 4 (4)
0, Paul Gallagher, Leicester 5 (5)
0, Luke Varney, Derby County
0, Jay Simpson, Hull City 6 (4) (on loan from Arsenal)
0, Leon Clarke, QPR 0 (4)
0, Freddie Sears, Scunthorpe 3 (0)
0, Nwankwo Kanu, Portsmouth

Not sure if Kanu has even played for Pompey this season. Their web-site is horrible
but I could find appearances for Pompey/Goals (Shane in there for comparison

130 Appearances 25 Goals 1 in 5.2 KANU, Portsmouth
141 Appearances 25 Goals 1 in 5.6 Shane Long, Reading
062 Appearances 10 Goals 1 in 6.2 David Nugent, Portsmouth
101 Appearances 11 Goals 1 in 9.0 John UTAKA, Portsmouth



And these guys have only scored 1 goal all season


1, Danny Haynes, Bristol!!!!! 6 (1) ONLY GOAL, AGAINST US
1, Leroy Lita, Middlesboro!!!!! 6 (6) 618 minutes played ONLY GOAL, AGAINST US
1, ROBERT EARNSHAW, Forest!!!!!! 6 (1) ONLY GOAL, AGAINST US
1, Scott McDonald, Middlesboro 12 (1) (3 Million?)

1, ROB HULSE, Derby County (1-2 Million?)
1, William Buckley, Watford 10 (2)
1, Wilfred Zaha, Palace 10 (1)
1, Chris Martin, Norwich 8 (6)
1, Troy Deeney, Watford 1 (12)
1, Nathan Dyer, Swansea 14 (0) (Listed as a striker?)
1, Marvin Emmes, Swansea 1 (1)
1, Dudley Campbell, Leicester 3 (0)
1, Paul Hayes, Preston 6 (4)
1, Cedric van der Gun, Swansea 1 (4)
1, Kevin Lisbie, Millwall 5 (3)
1, Gary O’Connor, Barnsley 4 (0)
1, Frank Nouble, Swansea 2 (4)
1, Alan Lee, Crystal Palace 3 (0)
1, James OBrien, Barnsley 7 (4)
1, Luke Moore, Derby County
1, David McGoldrick, Forest 2 (4)
1, Andrew Keogh, Cardiff City 5 (4)
1, John UTAKA, Portsmouth (2 Million +)

[Stranded]

Oh just f*ck off with the stats for once, please. Fact is, as I stated, Long was poor on Saturday. When he went off, the game changed completely.

Genuine FACTS > Ridiculous stats.

BIGGEST STAT 4-5-1 was changed to 4-4-2 and manager said "Just keep throwing crosses into the box"

= DIFFERENT STYLE

Please try to engage brain.

But if Long is best suited to a 442 in your opinion why was he taken off - wouldn't have been better to leave him on with one of the other two to support?

[Snowball]

But if Long is best suited to a 442 in your opinion why was he taken off - wouldn't have been better to leave him on with one of the other two to support?

I don't know. Maybe the manager wanted a double change for reasons OTHER than Shane's form.

Maybe they practice 4-4-2 in training with Hunt-Church as the pair, precisely for this scenario.

[Snowball]

All these guys, all "strikers" have only scored 2 league goals this season

2, Michael Chopra, Cardiff 7 (0) (4 Million) EDIT. CHOPRA CHANGED TO 3 ON CARDIFF WEBSITE SINCE
2, Craig Bellamy, 6 (0) Cardiff (6 Million?)
2, Richard Creswell, Sheffield Utd. 14 (0)
2, Martyn Waghorn, Leicester 9 (1)
2, Nadir Ciftci, Portsmouth 11 appearances
2, Jonathon Forte, Scunthorpe 11 (2)
2, Tamas Priskin, Ipswich 6 (6)
2, Ched Evans, Sheffield Utd 8 (4)
2, Matty Fryatt, Leicester 5 (4)
2, Steve Howard, Leicester 8 (5)
2, Ian Hulme, Preston 7 (1)
2, Patrick Agyemang, QPR 0 (8)
2, Theo Robinson, Millwall 5 (1)
2, David Clarkson, Bristol City 3 (5)
2, Freddie Eastwood, Coventry 3 (1)
2, Tarmo Kink, Middlesboro 5 (5) 389 minutes played
2, Shefki Kuqi, Derby County
2, James Hayter, Doncaster 5 (2)

[Stranded]

Bellamy has been playing more as a winger this season.

[Snowball]

Bellamy has been playing more as a winger this season.

So? He's listed as a striker, known as a striker, and he has precisely 2 goals

19 Strikers have scored only 2 goals (19 including Shane Long)
23 Strikers have only scored 1 goal
12 Strikers have scored zero goals

So FIFTY-FOUR strikers have not scored more than Shane Long this season.

Obviously, at this stage of the season, MANY strikers are not bagging lots of goals.

Shane has usually been better second half of the season. Maybe other strikers are like that, perhaps due to fitness issues, or state of pitches, dunno, but there are a lot of serious "names" in those lists.


And these ten have only manage 3 each

3, Platt, Coventry 11 (3)
3, Dagnall, Scunthorpe 14 (0)
3, Boyd, Middlesboro 12 (1) 973 minutes played
3, Grant Holt, Norwich 13 (1)
3, Jay Rodriguez, Burnley 7 (4)
3 David Nugent, Portsmouth
3 Lukas Jutkiewicz, Coventry 12 (1)
3, Albert Bueno, Derby
3, Andy Gray, Barnsley 11 (1)
3, Dean Shiels, Doncaster 6 (6)

[Snowball]

There are really not that many strikers doing great as yet, and almost 43% are doing worse than Shane

9 Goals 01 Strikers Top 01.2%
8 Goals 02 Strikers Top 03.6%
7 Goals 01 Strikers Top 04.8%
6 Goals 04 Strikers Top 09.6%
5 Goals 03 Strikers Top 13.4%
4 Goals 07 Strikers Top 21.9%
3 Goals 10 Strikers Top 34.1%

2 Goals 19 Strikers Top 57.3%

65.8% of Listed Strikers have scored 2 goals or less
42.6% of Listed Strikers have scored 1 goals or less

1 Goals 23 Strikers 28.0%
0 Goals 12 Strikers 14.6%

[Stranded]

Bellamy has been playing more as a winger this season.

So? He's listed as a striker, known as a striker, and he has precisely 2 goals

19 Strikers have scored only 2 goals (19 including Shane Long)
23 Strikers have only scored 1 goal
12 Strikers have scored zero goals

So FIFTY-FOUR strikers have not scored more than Shane Long this season.

Obviously, at this stage of the season, MANY strikers are not bagging lots of goals.

Shane has usually been better second half of the season. Maybe other strikers are like that, perhaps due to fitness issues, or state of pitches, dunno, but there are a lot of serious "names" in those lists.


And these ten have only manage 3 each

3, Platt, Coventry 11 (3)
3, Dagnall, Scunthorpe 14 (0)
3, Boyd, Middlesboro 12 (1) 973 minutes played
3, Grant Holt, Norwich 13 (1)
3, Jay Rodriguez, Burnley 7 (4)
3 David Nugent, Portsmouth
3 Lukas Jutkiewicz, Coventry 12 (1)
3, Albert Bueno, Derby
3, Andy Gray, Barnsley 11 (1)
3, Dean Shiels, Doncaster 6 (6)

So? It's only one example, but as he is not playing as a striker it is not accurate to include him on that list. A player can be listed as a striker and actually be playing CB if needs must, and vice versa - this will obviously have an impact on their figures.

[Snowball]

Yes, and in the case of the Swansea player I pointed that out.


I take a list of players that the web-site specifically calls strikers,
differentiating them from players they call midfielders or defenders.

Perhaps some named "midfielders" are actually playing as strikers.

Am I really going to trawl through a few hundred names, go to the team sites and check?

No, I take the site's word for it and see no reason to expect it to be wildly out.


Gylfi was listed as a midfielder, but I thought of him as a deep striker.