Wingers for 13/14

[RoyallyFcuked]

Don't have to go much further back to find a left winger better than Jobi tbh. Stephen Hunt was arguably better than Jobi on the left and none of McAnuff's season's have touched on Bobby Convey's 106pt promotion season either. Now we've got Drenthe in, who is almost certainly going to eclipse McAnuff's quality on the left.

If Jobi is going to be remembered it will be as captain of our second squad to get promoted, he certainly won't be remembered as an amazing left winger. Apart from anything else, he's not even a left winger, he only plays there because we've got better players for his preferred position on the right.

McAnuff has played over 150 games for the club now, the majority on the left wing. He's been by far our most consistent performer on the left since Gilkes (who was consistently inconsistent but great value at the same time).

Both Hunt and Convey were very good (or at least effective in Hunts case) at their best, but we only ever saw their best for short purple patches. Hunt couldn't get a game whilst Convey made the left wing his during the 106 season but then came into his own when injury basically ended Convey's career. Convey on the other hand was very poor in his first season, excellent during the promotion, and then hung around whilst injured for the remainder of his 100 appearances.

McAnuff stands up excellently against those two. He's not been quite as good or effective as them at their very best, but he's rarely had a bad game, let alone a bad couple of months or seasons like the other two.

I agree with P!ssed off, McAnuff wont be remembered for dazzling the Madejski with his skill, just for being captain of the title winning side of 11/12. He has had 4 very up and down mediocre seasons. All of you always say, "oh he is so consistent", yeah, consistently average. He drifts in and out of games, and when he's not playing ok ish, he's playing crap. And never had a bad game?? I mean, really? Do you actually watch Reading? He has had many a bad game, especially last season (im not saying he was the only one) but I cant remember coming back from a game and thinking, McAnuff had a blinder today. Maybe a few times I thought he played well, more in the early days, but he is never outstanding. If the team is playing well, he will play well too, (logically) but its never down to him, even though he is the captain. I think its a myth that he was great last season, you guys are kidding yourselves.

[Pepe the Horseman]

McAnuff has been a better player for us than Murty, yet you lot all seem to think Murty's some kind of god because he used to raise his fist in the air every now and then.

[WestRoyal]

So 33% of his league goals?

What about his assists?

Your words were 'McLeary plays a higher proportion of his minutes on the pitch towards the end of games when,relatively speaking, goals are more common'

You never said league goals, you said games and now we are in the championship
But yes thats 33% if you want to say league games so how does that prove your theory to be correct?
You were also not talking about his assists either so not sure why you brought that up, is it because your theory is wrong? What about his assist, this for league or overall? Does overall not count? Does the striker on the end of the chances a winger creates have any influence?
Infact how many assists did he get in his last season in the championship, im not sure?

[Hoop Blah]

McAnuff has played over 150 games for the club now, the majority on the left wing. He's been by far our most consistent performer on the left since Gilkes (who was consistently inconsistent but great value at the same time).

Both Hunt and Convey were very good (or at least effective in Hunts case) at their best, but we only ever saw their best for short purple patches. Hunt couldn't get a game whilst Convey made the left wing his during the 106 season but then came into his own when injury basically ended Convey's career. Convey on the other hand was very poor in his first season, excellent during the promotion, and then hung around whilst injured for the remainder of his 100 appearances.

McAnuff stands up excellently against those two. He's not been quite as good or effective as them at their very best, but he's rarely had a bad game, let alone a bad couple of months or seasons like the other two.

I agree with P!ssed off, McAnuff wont be remembered for dazzling the Madejski with his skill, just for being captain of the title winning side of 11/12.

As a winger he's very consistent and a solid performer. More than most wingers I'd say. He's not quite the mazy dribbler and flair player he was in his younger days though and so perhaps you won't remember him tearing a defence apart in the way Little would. He's still been an excellent player though, just perhaps not in the way you want a left winger to be.

He has had 4 very up and down mediocre seasons. All of you always say, "oh he is so consistent", yeah, consistently average.

He's consistently doing what he's asked to do in the team. He doesn't score enough goals, but he keeps the ball well, gets a decent supply of crosses into the box, defends excellently and has been one of our most consistenly creative players.

He drifts in and out of games, and when he's not playing ok ish, he's playing crap. And never had a bad game?? I mean, really? Do you actually watch Reading? He has had many a bad game, especially last season (im not saying he was the only one) but I cant remember coming back from a game and thinking, McAnuff had a blinder today.

Who said never? I said he rarely has a bad game! If you're going to go off on a daft rant at least make it relevant to what I've said.

If you've never watched a game and realised McAnuff has had a blinder then I can see why you think he's average as you obviously don't appreciate what he's doing.

As for a specific game, did you go to the United game when Fergie hauled off Rafael after McAnuff had pulled him to bits for half an hour?

Maybe a few times I thought he played well, more in the early days, but he is never outstanding. If the team is playing well, he will play well too, (logically) but its never down to him, even though he is the captain. I think its a myth that he was great last season, you guys are kidding yourselves.

He's a consistent 7 or 8 out 10 most weeks. He isn't as eye-catching as some previous wingers have been, although he certainly can be at times (that dibble from the halfway line against Liverpool that would've been a wonder goal if he hadn't put it just wide), but he does his job week-in week-out. Managers and players realise and respect that. It's a shame a few more of our fans don't too.

[RoyallyFcuked]

Yeah like I said, he has the odd flash of brilliance, which is usually his dribbling, but these are becoming less and less frequent. The run against Liverpool was class but he still should have scored. Meanwhile, when he does get crosses in, the crosses are nearly always off target. All very well getting crosses in, but if they go out for a goal kick every time its pretty pointless. He doesn't run at players much now, he seems to have lost belief in his own ability as he will turn and shield the ball, dawdle with it and end up losing it.

You guys saying McAnuff was consistently performing well last season, when everyone else was crap, is completely wrong. He was usually as poor/ineffective as the rest of team, often more so.

[WestRoyal]

Yeah like I said, he has the odd flash of brilliance, which is usually his dribbling, but these are becoming less and less frequent. The run against Liverpool was class but he still should have scored. Meanwhile, when he does get crosses in, the crosses are nearly always off target. All very well getting crosses in, but if they go out for a goal kick every time its pretty pointless. He doesn't run at players much now, he seems to have lost belief in his own ability as he will turn and shield the ball, dawdle with it and end up losing it.

You guys saying McAnuff was consistently performing well last season, when everyone else was crap, is completely wrong. He was usually as poor/ineffective as the rest of team, often more so.

Ok we can see you're not his biggest fan but I think thats unfair and over-exaggerated as he assisted quite a few goals last season; Newcastle at home springs to mind
If we are going to argue for or against a player at least stick to facts and don't say things for the sake of it

[Ian Royal]

I said compare that seasons contribution (the 3 starts) to McAnuff's contribution as a key player for each and every one of his 4 seasons.

Not comparing any of them to Gilkes is daft too. He was our left winger for a significant amount of time and a previous standard-barer for comparison in that position. Yeah he played at a lower level, and wasn't as good a player as others, but in terms on contribution (he played what, 400 games?) and relative talent at the level we were at he's a contender for our best left winger (certainly over the last 25 years).

Yes, I am in agreement that Gilkes is a Reading legend and will be remembered in decades to come. Stop trying to convince me that he is more of a Reading legend than Convey, Hunt or McAnuff, I never said anything to the contrary.

Also, I would have to disagree that McAnuff was a key player in his first season at Reading. He rarely even touched the ball and was one of our least involved players.
His tendency to not get involved in games continued in to the next season, hence the surprise from most people (including myself), when he was named captain.

LMFAO. He was our top assister with 9. (Kebe - 5)
http://www.football-league.co.uk/page/DivisionalAssists/0,,10794~20097,00.html
FYI he got 7 the next season, joint second at the club with Kebe.

If in doubt, show a total disregard for facts and just emphatically state your opinion, eh?

[P!ssed Off]

I said compare that seasons contribution (the 3 starts) to McAnuff's contribution as a key player for each and every one of his 4 seasons.

Not comparing any of them to Gilkes is daft too. He was our left winger for a significant amount of time and a previous standard-barer for comparison in that position. Yeah he played at a lower level, and wasn't as good a player as others, but in terms on contribution (he played what, 400 games?) and relative talent at the level we were at he's a contender for our best left winger (certainly over the last 25 years).

Yes, I am in agreement that Gilkes is a Reading legend and will be remembered in decades to come. Stop trying to convince me that he is more of a Reading legend than Convey, Hunt or McAnuff, I never said anything to the contrary.

Also, I would have to disagree that McAnuff was a key player in his first season at Reading. He rarely even touched the ball and was one of our least involved players.
His tendency to not get involved in games continued in to the next season, hence the surprise from most people (including myself), when he was named captain.

LMFAO. He was our top assister with 9. (Kebe - 5)
http://www.football-league.co.uk/page/DivisionalAssists/0,,10794~20097,00.html
FYI he got 7 the next season, joint second at the club with Kebe.

If in doubt, show a total disregard for facts and just emphatically state your opinion, eh?

Hypocrite.
ALF scored 12 goals in the Prem (38 games) last season, yet you would be the first person to argue that he wasn't a key player.
Therefore, how does the fact that McAnuff got 9 assists in the Champ (46 games) prove that he was a key player?

Edit: also slight misleading there Ian Royal, in that McAnuff was joint top in assists, Sig also had 9 according to your source.

[Ian Royal]

Hypocrite? I said ALF wasn't key? I had him in the top three in PoTS you moron.

Contenders
Federici - started the season terribly and arguably single handedly cost us about 5 points early on.
Le Fondre - not really started eniugh or done enough when starting.
Mariappa - positionally apalling early in his run in the side.
Pearce - weaker recently compared to an improved Mariappa.
McAnuff - lacked effectiveness at times.

For me it's McAnuff, at least partly because of the totally unfair abuse he gets on here, and because he's consistently been one of our hardest workers pulling his weight at the back and our most effective attacker.

Voted McAnuff. Would probably go Mariappa then ALF.

I'm not the one who said McAnuff, and I quote: "rarely even touched the ball and was one of our least involved players".

Why don't you stop making yourself look like a total bellend and admit you were talking shit.

[P!ssed Off]

Hypocrite? I said ALF wasn't key? I had him in the top three in PoTS you moron.

Contenders
Federici - started the season terribly and arguably single handedly cost us about 5 points early on.
Le Fondre - not really started eniugh or done enough when starting.
Mariappa - positionally apalling early in his run in the side.
Pearce - weaker recently compared to an improved Mariappa.
McAnuff - lacked effectiveness at times.

For me it's McAnuff, at least partly because of the totally unfair abuse he gets on here, and because he's consistently been one of our hardest workers pulling his weight at the back and our most effective attacker.

Voted McAnuff. Would probably go Mariappa then ALF.

I'm not the one who said McAnuff, and I quote: "rarely even touched the ball and was one of our least involved players".

Why don't you stop making yourself look like a total bellend and admit you were talking shit.

How does 9 assists in a whole season disprove my point that he rarely touched the ball. It doesn't.

As for calling you a hypocrite, I apologise. It appears I got you muddled up with all the other McAnuff lovers. You're all the same to me.

[RoyallyFcuked]

It appears I got you muddled up with all the other McAnuff lovers. You're all the same to me.

Anyone saying McAnuff was consistently performing well last season, when everyone else was crap, is completely wrong. He was usually as poor/ineffective as the rest of team, often more so.

He will be very lucky if he is playing for us next season. I think McCleary, HRK, Kebe and Drenthe are all better players and plus they are young whereas McAnuff is past his sell by date. Time to get rid and move on.

[imHobb]

---------------McCarthy
Gunter-Mariappa-Morrison-Bridge
----------Guthrie--Williams
-- McCleary----HRK----Drenthe
-----------------Pog

That front four will be deadly

[Snowball]

Just so you all understand

an assist every fifth game, and zero goals is blowing the rest of the team away



(obviously)

Ian Royal loves to quote bald stats while ignoring the total minutes played

Alf had 12 Premiership goals and 2 assists last year in 1,514 minutes on the pitch

In MORE THAN TWICE the minutes (3,266) McAnuff managed 9 assists and zero goals

In terms of Major Contributions that's

1 every 108 Minutes ALF
1 every 363 Minutes McAnuff

That is ALF was only 3.33 times better.

That's a hell of a gap to be covered by "secondary assists" or tackling back.

[Snowball]

Reading's Jobi McAnuff attempted 43 shots (including blocked shots) in the Premier League without scoring this season, more than any other player.

830: Reading put in more crosses than any other team. (That went well....)





As for McAnuff's "secondary assists" NO! According to the stats (he doesn't make the list) so either managed one or zero


A pass/cross that is instrumental in creating a goal-scoring opportunity, for example a corner or free-kick to a player who then assists an attempt, a chance-creating through ball or cross into a dangerous position. //OptaPro //A very interesting statistic which should come to the fore more next season. Jack Wilshere has played the pass that creates a goal-scoring opportunity the most this season. For an example of this image Wilshere playing a defence splitting pass for Walcott who then squares the ball for his teammate to tap in. Walcott would get the Assist and Wilshere the Second Assist.


Robin Van Persie created the 2nd highest of these whilst Morrison, Mata, Walters, Giroud, Oscar, Coutinho, Snodgrass, Riether, Walcott, Silva and Moses all created two second assists (only top 5 shown below as list sorted by First Name initial!).



Only four players managed to reach double figures in terms of goals and assists – Juan Mata (12 goals, 12 assists), Theo Walcott (14 goals, 10 assists), Santi Cazorla (12 goals, 11 assists) and Wayne Rooney (12 goals, 10 assists).



22 MCs in 2014 Minutes (1 every 092 Minutes) Rooney
24 MC's in 2284 Minutes (1 every 095 Minutes) Walcott
14 MCs in 1514 Minutes (1 every 108 Minutes) Adam Le Fondre <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
24 MCs in 2727 Minutes (1 every 113 Minutes) Mata
23 MCs in 3297 Minutes (1 every 143 Minutes) Cazorla

09 MCs in 3266 Minutes (1 every 363 Minutes) McAnuff <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

[P!ssed Off]

Don't have to go much further back to find a left winger better than Jobi tbh. Stephen Hunt was arguably better than Jobi on the left and none of McAnuff's season's have touched on Bobby Convey's 106pt promotion season either. Now we've got Drenthe in, who is almost certainly going to eclipse McAnuff's quality on the left.

Hunt!?
Convey had one good season, Jobi has had four.

So apparently I need to back up my criticisms of Jobi with stats according to Ian Royal. Yet it is perfectly reasonable for Ian Royal to laugh off my suggestion that Stephen Hunt "was arguably better than Jobi on the left".

Apparently Jobi "has had four good seasons for Reading".

The stats (according to espn)

McAnuff

2009/10 (Champ):
Starts (Sub appearances): 36 (0)
Goals: 3
Assists: 10

2010/11 (Champ):
Starts (Sub appearances): 43 (0)
Goals: 5
Assists: 9

20011/12 (Champ):
Starts (Sub appearances): 39 (0)
Goals: 5
Assists: 11

2012/13 (Prem):
Starts (Sub appearances): 38 (0)
Goals: 0
Assists: 7

S. Hunt

2005/06 (Champ):
Starts (Sub appearances): 3 (35)
Goals: 2
Assists: 6

2006/07 (Prem):
Starts (Sub appearances): 28 (7)
Goals: 4
Assists: 5

2007/08 (Prem):
Starts (Sub appearances): 37 (0)
Goals: 5
Assists: 5

2008/09 (Champ):
Starts (Sub appearances): 41 (6)
Goals: 6
Assists: 17

Please Ian Royal, can you explain to us why it is laughable to suggest "Stephen Hunt was arguably better than Jobi on the left".
"If in doubt, show a total disregard for facts and just emphatically state your opinion, eh?"
But presumably this is all part of some Thames Valley conspiracy to downplay the heroics of the great Jobi McAnuff.

You said:
"I think he's the best performing left winger we've had as well. At least in the almost 20 years I've been watching."
Do the stats even back up your strong held belief that McAnuff > Hunt, let alone the best performing left winger in almost 20 years?

[NewCorkSeth]

I really dont understand how anyone can even debate this? Jobi had the most off target shots in the Premiership.. of any player! This from a team who had the most crosses too.. and the player that delivered the most crosses? also Jobi! and not all of his dazzling 7 assists came from crosses! All this from a team that managed 43 league goals.. but regardless of all that you only have to have watched Convey play to know he was a better player! I dont care what the stats say.
I'd like to see us play Drenthe on the left and Mccleary on the right! Regardless there is gonna be great competition for the wings provided HRK stays!

[Magic Hat]

Reading's Jobi McAnuff attempted 43 shots (including blocked shots) in the Premier League without scoring this season, more than any other player.

830: Reading put in more crosses than any other team. (That went well....)





As for McAnuff's "secondary assists" NO! According to the stats (he doesn't make the list) so either managed one or zero


A pass/cross that is instrumental in creating a goal-scoring opportunity, for example a corner or free-kick to a player who then assists an attempt, a chance-creating through ball or cross into a dangerous position. //OptaPro //A very interesting statistic which should come to the fore more next season. Jack Wilshere has played the pass that creates a goal-scoring opportunity the most this season. For an example of this image Wilshere playing a defence splitting pass for Walcott who then squares the ball for his teammate to tap in. Walcott would get the Assist and Wilshere the Second Assist.


Robin Van Persie created the 2nd highest of these whilst Morrison, Mata, Walters, Giroud, Oscar, Coutinho, Snodgrass, Riether, Walcott, Silva and Moses all created two second assists (only top 5 shown below as list sorted by First Name initial!).



Only four players managed to reach double figures in terms of goals and assists – Juan Mata (12 goals, 12 assists), Theo Walcott (14 goals, 10 assists), Santi Cazorla (12 goals, 11 assists) and Wayne Rooney (12 goals, 10 assists).



22 MCs in 2014 Minutes (1 every 092 Minutes) Rooney
24 MC's in 2284 Minutes (1 every 095 Minutes) Walcott
14 MCs in 1514 Minutes (1 every 108 Minutes) Adam Le Fondre <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
24 MCs in 2727 Minutes (1 every 113 Minutes) Mata
23 MCs in 3297 Minutes (1 every 143 Minutes) Cazorla

09 MCs in 3266 Minutes (1 every 363 Minutes) McAnuff <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Does that mean Le Fondre is better than Mata and Cazorla?

[maffff]

Yes. That's what the statistics tell you.

[Hoop Blah]

McAnuff's contribution stands up to the statistical comparison, in fact it looks bit better, and his technical ability is/was far superior to Hunts and he's done it more consistently.

As for being, or not being, a key player since he's been here. The fact he's held down a place throughout his time here, across various managers, and been one of our most creative players every season just proves that. As a winger it he doesn't need to touch the ball all the time, especially when we're playing quite direct football, but he does need to do the job given to him. Which obviously he does because the managers have all stuck by him.

Also, it is possible for more than one player to be key to the way a side works!

[SCIAG]

So apparently I need to back up my criticisms of Jobi with stats according to Ian Royal. Yet it is perfectly reasonable for Ian Royal to laugh off my suggestion that Stephen Hunt "was arguably better than Jobi on the left".

Stats don't tell the whole story...

For a start, Hunt played in superior sides to Jobi. In Hunt's first season, he played with strikers like Kitson, Doyle and (in-form) Lita, as well as Sidwell and Harper. Those players were much more likely to stick chances away than the players McAnuff played with. In later seasons, he nearly always had an in-form Doyle or Kitson to set up as well as Harper. We developed a corner routine which yielded a lot of goals one season. McAnuff has never really had the same level of striker to play with, and when he has (e.g. Long's exceptional half season) he hasn't been as crucial to setting him up as the wingers were for Doyle and Kitson- the plan with Long was "put it behind the defence and get him to run", which all members of the side were equally capable of doing.

Hunt's style also leant himself more towards getting goals. A cross would come in from the right and Hunt would attack the far post to nod it in. Hunt also took penalties- he wasn't an excellent taker and I'd argue the difference between him and McAnuff in this area was partly down to chance. McAnuff, on the other hand, is a more creative player. Most of his chances come from the edge of the box. These are much harder to score than Hunt's goals, which were usually tap ins, but nevertheless McAnuff is below-par at shooting.

Your suggestion that McAnuff "barely touched the ball" in his first season is laughable. Under Rodgers he was either our best or second best player, he and Sigurdsson were the only two regulars who performed respectably. McDermott brought Kébé back into the fold and we were less reliant on McAnuff from then on, but he still performed very well. That was probably the best football I've seen a Reading side play because of the link up between the three creative players.

For me, Convey's one season was comfortably (but not far) above any of McAnuff's seasons, but I see the argument from Ian etc. that McAnuff's long term contribution is worth more. I think we would probably have stayed up for longer if Convey hadn't been injured, given how narrow the margins were I don't think that's very far fetched.

To conclude: McAnuff good