BFTG - Barnsley

[Extended-Phenotype]

Maybe it's misguided booing that's the bigger problem.

I have serious doubts that a bit of noise from the people who bankroll the club should be considered a problem at all. If it is considered as much then really the players and management should focus on what is within their sphere of influence (like how to pass from a to b) rather than on peripheral factors such as the crowd!

Are you seriously trying to argue that being booed and jeered from all sides should have no effect on a player's confidence

Do you think they stand there and make a rational choice to be demotivated? Weighing up the various factors behind the booing and then come to a reasoned conclusion on whether to play well or not?

Footballers are sensitive, pampered souls. Hardly surprising given the way their ego is stroked from a young age by a plethora of manipulative cnuts. So if you seriously think they should/could be able to stand there and take the abuse of thousands of fans and continue to play on like nothing is happening, just because they get paid more than we do, then I suggest you go read up on human psychology.

Personally I don't really care how it affects them. I've given up on this season, and this group of players. But if you're going to boo and vent your frustration, do it in the knowledge that you will be negatively affecting performances.

Or positively encouraging changes?

Plausible. I don't like folk booing because it generally spoils the atmos. It's like going to a party and standing next to somebody continuously complaining about the music.

[winchester_royal]

That depends on whether you believe that fans in Y26 have a better idea of what is needed on the pitch than the manager. Based on their constant moronic chanting for Alfie, I'd say probably not. And even if the right change is made, will the substitute have the confidence to perform at his best, knowing the ir8 nature of the fans? It's for this reason I'd imagine we didn't see Tanner last night.

Booing at HT/FT is, imo, a decent way for the fans to vent their frustration and give the a team/management a jolt. Booing/jeering during the game however is thorough counter-productive, imo, even if it is 'justified'.

[melonhead]

Or positively encouraging changes?

no, negatively encouraging changes

[P!ssed Off]

Are you seriously trying to argue that being booed and jeered from all sides should have no effect on a player's confidence

Do you think they stand there and make a rational choice to be demotivated? Weighing up the various factors behind the booing and then come to a reasoned conclusion on whether to play well or not?

Footballers are sensitive, pampered souls. Hardly surprising given the way their ego is stroked from a young age by a plethora of manipulative cnuts. So if you seriously think they should/could be able to stand there and take the abuse of thousands of fans and continue to play on like nothing is happening, just because they get paid more than we do, then I suggest you go read up on human psychology.

Personally I don't really care how it affects them. I've given up on this season, and this group of players. But if you're going to boo and vent your frustration, do it in the knowledge that you will be negatively affecting performances.

Yes, although whilst it may affect performances it does not necessarily affect results.
The players have shown time and time again this season, home and away, that they are too gutless and weak minded to produce any sort of result after suffering any sort of setback.
60 minutes in yesterday and the game was most definitely lost regardless of the behaviour of any fans present.

[Sutekh]

Total and complete disgrace pure and simple. Utterly uncceptable at any level of the the game.

Waiting for a takeover to happen so everyone (management, players and fans) can get on with things and expectations can be reset as necessary.

[Cureton's Volley]

Maybe it's misguided booing that's the bigger problem.

I have serious doubts that a bit of noise from the people who bankroll the club should be considered a problem at all. If it is considered as much then really the players and management should focus on what is within their sphere of influence (like how to pass from a to b) rather than on peripheral factors such as the crowd!

Are you seriously trying to argue that being booed and jeered from all sides should have no effect on a player's confidence

Do you think they stand there and make a rational choice to be demotivated? Weighing up the various factors behind the booing and then come to a reasoned conclusion on whether to play well or not?

Footballers are sensitive, pampered souls. Hardly surprising given the way their ego is stroked from a young age by a plethora of manipulative oxf*rd. So if you seriously think they should/could be able to stand there and take the abuse of thousands of fans and continue to play on like nothing is happening, just because they get paid more than we do, then I suggest you go read up on human psychology.

Personally I don't really care how it affects them. I've given up on this season, and this group of players. But if you're going to boo and vent your frustration, do it in the knowledge that you will be negatively affecting performances.

You make a valid point in that it will negatively impact performances. However, the reason is not because of insurmountable human psychology challenges - because there are many lines of work where skilled people are forced to work in highly pressured, abusive and even dangerous conditions - and many of them do a great job.

If certain players can't handle the heat then get them out of the kitchen.

[PistolPete]

or he completely guts the squad and starts from scratch.

Players in green I think are capable of playing how Adkins wants:

GK Federici
GK McCarthy
DL Bridge
DL Obita
DR Gunter
DR Cummings
DC Pearce
DC Gorkss
DC Hector
DC Morrison
ANCHOR - ???
DMC Tshibola
MC Williams
MC Gurthrie
MC Karacan
10 - ???
ML MacAnuff
ML Drenthe
MR McCleary
MR Robson-Kanu
S Le Fondre
S Pogrebnyak
S ££££

Haven't bothered including these as I don't think they're up to Championship football:

Blackman
Akpan
Leigertwood


Personally I'd happily lose Kelly and use Cummings if it frees up some wages. If Rosenior can hold down a premier league position Cummings can do it in the Chump. Tanner needs a season away, as does Kuhl.

The problem I think is that McCarthy can't distribute, nor can the central defence. If the defence can't do it they give it to Guthrie when he plays and he is often stuck for an option/plays too deep.

The injuries to Williams and Karacan have hit us bad.

A team of...

Federici
Gunter Hector Morrison Bridge
Williams Guthrie Karacan
McCleary Drenthe
Pogrebnyak

...would be quality. Perhaps the central defence is still weak but the work rate of the central midfield and the quality on the wing would be fine.

We CERTAINLY need a mobile forward, a new Gylfi and a proper defensive midfielder would give us options we simply don't have currently, MAYBE HRK could be that forward, but in this team he's not really getting a chance to prove it. Seeing as Gorkks is off and Hector is still relatively untested, I think we still need a centre back.

Last nights team was so far from Adkins preferred XI it' a bit unfair to suggest he might need to leave...

[Agent Balti]

^^^^^


if anything is going to stop me renewing my season ticket

it wont be the football on show, itll be the dickhead fans

I'll certainly be moving my seat next season. There's a dick near me (Y24) that actively has a little clique that he likes to be the leader of. Blackman is his choice victim. He leads them in sarcastically cheering when his name is read out, let alone when the game is in progress. Can't stand his smug little face. OK, Blackman isn't pulling up any trees and was a bad buy, but that kind of attitude from this little group gets on my tits.

Not sure if it's who I know since there's only two of them (one chubby and one tall) and the chubby one who loves Blackman certainly isn't the 'leader' but if it is it's not sarcastic, he got sick of Blackman's abuse from other fans and adopted him as his favourite player, does seem sarcastic when he cheers for him though, but only 'cos everyone else abuses him!

Doesn't sound like the same bunch to me. I think these are related, look like father and son, most likely.

[winchester_royal]

You make a valid point in that it will negatively impact performances. However, the reason is not because of insurmountable human psychology challenges - because there are many lines of work where skilled people are forced to work in highly pressured, abusive and even dangerous conditions - and many of them do a great job.

If certain players can't handle the heat then get them out of the kitchen.

I'll agree that there are plenty who do a gr8 job under pressure, but I'd be interested to hear examples of other professions where you're expected to perform consistently whilst at the very same time being abused/jeered/insulted by the people you are trying entertain. And even more interested to hear examples of success in that atmosphere.

[melonhead]

or he completely guts the squad and starts from scratch.

Players in green I think are capable of playing how Adkins wants:

GK Federici
GK McCarthy
DL Bridge
DL Obita
DR Gunter
DR Cummings
DC Pearce
DC Gorkss
DC Hector
DC Morrison
ANCHOR - ???
DMC Tshibola
MC Williams
MC Gurthrie
MC Karacan
10 - ???
ML MacAnuff
ML Drenthe
MR McCleary
MR Robson-Kanu
S Le Fondre
S Pogrebnyak
S ££££

Haven't bothered including these as I don't think they're up to Championship football:

Blackman
Akpan
Leigertwood


Personally I'd happily lose Kelly and use Cummings if it frees up some wages. If Rosenior can hold down a premier league position Cummings can do it in the Chump. Tanner needs a season away, as does Kuhl.

The problem I think is that McCarthy can't distribute, nor can the central defence. If the defence can't do it they give it to Guthrie when he plays and he is often stuck for an option/plays too deep.

The injuries to Williams and Karacan have hit us bad.

A team of...

Federici
Gunter Hector Morrison Bridge
Williams Guthrie Karacan
McCleary Drenthe
Pogrebnyak

...would be quality. Perhaps the central defence is still weak but the work rate of the central midfield and the quality on the wing would be fine.

We CERTAINLY need a mobile forward, a new Gylfi and a proper defensive midfielder would give us options we simply don't have currently, MAYBE HRK could be that forward, but in this team he's not really getting a chance to prove it. Seeing as Gorkks is off and Hector is still relatively untested, I think we still need a centre back.

Last nights team was so far from Adkins preferred XI it' a bit unfair to suggest he might need to leave...

pearce would be fine with an experienced, pacy ball playing CB alongside him
they just aint very common

[Extended-Phenotype]

That depends on whether you believe that fans in Y26 have a better idea of what is needed on the pitch than the manager.

Aye, that's pretty much nailed it, though of course that depends on what you think of the manager (what if you are booing his decisions?)

Anyway, fully agreed it's more counter-productive overall. But fans/viewers/people always want to feel part of it, like they make a difference - that works both ways not forgetting positive encouragement through cheering.

Not forgetting a lot of reaction (positive or negative) is often unmeditated (knee-jerk individual groan, amplified by thousands - hard to chastise that.

[RoyalBlue]

BOOOOOing during the match, sarcastically olé'ing when we pass the ball, cheering a player leaving the pitch, chanting the name of a sub when he only ever performs in January when looking to leave.

Worst fans in the country.

The fans got the performance they deserved.

Agree that the reaction of the fans was disappointing and won't help. However, worst fans in the country?? You clearly don't know many other sets of fans.

To be honest, given the long run of utter crap that the home fans have had to endure recently, they were, by and large, incredibly patient and supportive for most of the first half. Yes, there was a bit of reaction after Gorkss' pass for a corner but that was largely light-hearted teasing and hopefully he realised that (I can see it would blow the confidence of a young/inexperienced player but doubt it really affected him).

Rest assured an awful lot of home fans would have been ripping their team to shreds a lot earlier and worse than the Mad Stad did last night, had they been through the same experiences.

[PistolPete]

or he completely guts the squad and starts from scratch.

Players in green I think are capable of playing how Adkins wants:

GK Federici
GK McCarthy
DL Bridge
DL Obita
DR Gunter
DR Cummings
DC Pearce
DC Gorkss
DC Hector
DC Morrison
ANCHOR - ???
DMC Tshibola
MC Williams
MC Gurthrie
MC Karacan
10 - ???
ML MacAnuff
ML Drenthe
MR McCleary
MR Robson-Kanu
S Le Fondre
S Pogrebnyak
S ££££

Haven't bothered including these as I don't think they're up to Championship football:

Blackman
Akpan
Leigertwood


Personally I'd happily lose Kelly and use Cummings if it frees up some wages. If Rosenior can hold down a premier league position Cummings can do it in the Chump. Tanner needs a season away, as does Kuhl.

The problem I think is that McCarthy can't distribute, nor can the central defence. If the defence can't do it they give it to Guthrie when he plays and he is often stuck for an option/plays too deep.

The injuries to Williams and Karacan have hit us bad.

A team of...

Federici
Gunter Hector Morrison Bridge
Williams Guthrie Karacan
McCleary Drenthe
Pogrebnyak

...would be quality. Perhaps the central defence is still weak but the work rate of the central midfield and the quality on the wing would be fine.

We CERTAINLY need a mobile forward, a new Gylfi and a proper defensive midfielder would give us options we simply don't have currently, MAYBE HRK could be that forward, but in this team he's not really getting a chance to prove it. Seeing as Gorkks is off and Hector is still relatively untested, I think we still need a centre back.

Last nights team was so far from Adkins preferred XI it' a bit unfair to suggest he might need to leave...

pearce would be fine with an experienced, pacy ball playing CB alongside him
they just aint very common

Agree. Thats why Luiz or Cahil is played with Terry at Chelsea. Hobbs I guess genuinely was the one we wanted.

[melonhead]

long run of utter crap

short to moderate

they were, by and large, incredibly patient and supportive for most of the first half.

agree with that though



moany individuals near me aside

[Cureton's Volley]

You make a valid point in that it will negatively impact performances. However, the reason is not because of insurmountable human psychology challenges - because there are many lines of work where skilled people are forced to work in highly pressured, abusive and even dangerous conditions - and many of them do a great job.

If certain players can't handle the heat then get them out of the kitchen.

I'll agree that there are plenty who do a gr8 job under pressure, but I'd be interested to hear examples of other professions where you're expected to perform consistently whilst at the very same time being abused/jeered/insulted by the people you are trying entertain. And even more interested to hear examples of success in that atmosphere.

Indeed it is a tough one - as I was initially thinking more care / public service industries... The best thing I can come up with in entertainment off the top of my head is comedians who handling hecklers with aplomb

[winchester_royal]

That depends on whether you believe that fans in Y26 have a better idea of what is needed on the pitch than the manager.

Aye, that's pretty much nailed it, though of course that depends on what you think of the manager (what if you are booing his decisions?)

Anyway, fully agreed it's more counter-productive overall. But fans/viewers/people always want to feel part of it, like they make a difference - that works both ways not forgetting positive encouragement through cheering.

Not forgetting a lot of reaction (positive or negative) is often unmeditated (knee-jerk individual groan, amplified by thousands - hard to chastise that.

Yep, which is why I'm not blaming the crowd. Often performances that draw this type of reaction are thoroughly deserving of being booed, and just like we can't expect players to behave like emotionless robots - nor can we demand it from supporters.

But just because it's justified, that doesn't make it the best course of action. We'd be more likely to see a positive reaction from the players on Saturday if we'd have stuck by them and let the manager do the abusing.

It is, I imagine, a similar decision to the one the courts have to make every day. Should you go for extreme punishment to act as a disincentive to future crime, or should you look to rehabilitate the offender in an attempt to make their reintegration into society more likely to succeed? Likewise: Should you boo the players so that they're motivated to play better to avoid getting booed, or should you support them in the hope that they'll take confidence from this and play better?

I always thought of Reading as quite a liberal place, so I have to say I'm surprised that so many seem to want to follow the path of deterrence rather than reform.

[winchester_royal]

You make a valid point in that it will negatively impact performances. However, the reason is not because of insurmountable human psychology challenges - because there are many lines of work where skilled people are forced to work in highly pressured, abusive and even dangerous conditions - and many of them do a great job.

If certain players can't handle the heat then get them out of the kitchen.

I'll agree that there are plenty who do a gr8 job under pressure, but I'd be interested to hear examples of other professions where you're expected to perform consistently whilst at the very same time being abused/jeered/insulted by the people you are trying entertain. And even more interested to hear examples of success in that atmosphere.

Indeed it is a tough one - as I was initially thinking more care / public service industries... The best thing I can come up with in entertainment off the top of my head is comedians who handling hecklers with aplomb

If only Nick Blackman was as quick witted as Jimmy Carr

[paddy20]

Our biggest problem is we don't have a captain, the ilk of a Parky, a Murty or a Gooding. Someone on the field who could drive them on. Its no good Crosby shouting all the time. As a team we are too nice with a sensible , intelligent but mild captain.Where's our warhorse? Its a massive problem for us and one that has not been rectified since Murty went.Look at all the top teams, Jon Terry, Gerrard, Kompany, they all have strong leaders. I don't think we have anyone that fits the bill.

[PistolPete]

Laugh if you like, but Pearce, Guthrie and Williams all strike me as leaders. Williams and Guthrie weren't playing and Pearce lacks the performances to go with the shouting...

[Extended-Phenotype]

That depends on whether you believe that fans in Y26 have a better idea of what is needed on the pitch than the manager.

Aye, that's pretty much nailed it, though of course that depends on what you think of the manager (what if you are booing his decisions?)

Anyway, fully agreed it's more counter-productive overall. But fans/viewers/people always want to feel part of it, like they make a difference - that works both ways not forgetting positive encouragement through cheering.

Not forgetting a lot of reaction (positive or negative) is often unmeditated (knee-jerk individual groan, amplified by thousands - hard to chastise that.

Yep, which is why I'm not blaming the crowd. Often performances that draw this type of reaction are thoroughly deserving of being booed, and just like we can't expect players to behave like emotionless robots - nor can we demand it from supporters.

But just because it's justified, that doesn't make it the best course of action. We'd be more likely to see a positive reaction from the players on Saturday if we'd have stuck by them and let the manager do the abusing.

It is, I imagine, a similar decision to the one the courts have to make every day. Should you go for extreme punishment to act as a disincentive to future crime, or should you look to rehabilitate the offender in an attempt to make their reintegration into society more likely to succeed? Likewise: Should you boo the players so that they're motivated to play better to avoid getting booed, or should you support them in the hope that they'll take confidence from this and play better?

I always thought of Reading as quite a liberal place, so I have to say I'm surprised that so many seem to want to follow the path of deterrence rather than reform.

Not sure you can politicise booing. Many liberals are happy to see a sensible stretch of booing if accompanied by education and rehabilitation and that money is not wasted on megaphones to make the booing louder when it could be spent on dealing with why people get booed in the first place. We also accept that the threat of booing someone to death does not reduce mistake statistics.