Could 3-5-2 be the answer ?

[Hound]

Tough call - could certainly see it working, and I like Obita & Gunter as wing backs and Yann and Samuel up top. But then I also wouldn't want to drop Beerens and G-Mac.

I'd keep it as a plan b at this stage if we keep struggling to create

[Royal Ginger]

Meh, i think it's a game of adjustments as most sports turn out to be. What they've been doing seems to have been mostly worked out by other teams. I reckon 3-5-2 is worth a go for the next 5 or 6 games before we need to be looking for the next thing. I'm quite looking forward to some sort of Kermorgant Rackels partnership. The shoots of something were appearing at the end of last season and I'd like to see that have the chance to develop.

[bcubed]

doesn't even try to most of the time

Are you suggesting he can beat people without even trying?
I suspect not, in which case what are you on about?!
He has looked at his best this season especially the early games and has more pace than Beerens, beats the man more than not and delivers better crosses

[bcubed]

doesn't even try to most of the time

Are you suggesting he can beat people without even trying?
I suspect not, in which case what are you on about?!
He has looked at his best this season especially the early games and has more pace than Beerens, beats the man more than not and delivers better crosses

Looked pretty good again on Saturday, scored the goal and set one up and much superior to Beerens

[Ian Royal]

I've always thought it would suit us, especially when watching Wales use it at the Euros and seeing Gunter bombing down the wing

Obviously it would work if we spent time on it training, and really learned how to play it, but I don't think we've been doing that

Hence suddenly switching to 3-5-2 would probably be a bit risky, and the months we've spent learning the current system would then pretty much go to waste

Obita is perfectly suited to the wing-back role, although I think he's been a bit hesitant going forward in recent years given he constantly claims he's a winger, it's actually his defending I'm always most impressed with. As mentioned, Gunter's done this at international level for years

Presumably then it would be McShane, Moore and Blackett as the three? I like Jules and Dickie and think they'd be pretty suited to the left and right centre-half roles, although no one seems to really want them anywhere the first team as of yet

Kermorgant and Samuel/Mendes/Rakels would be up top but then how would you pick the three in the centre? I'd like three centre-mids, of which we have an endless supply (Swift, Joey, Evans, Williams, Quinn, Kelly, Wieser), but then you'd have no room for any wingers at all. Stam is hardly going to drop both McCleary and Beerens (on form, he should though), but then you'd still be cutting off any opportunities for people like Harriott, Meite, and newly converted wideman Danzell

So yeah maybe just stick with what's working. At least this gives a chance to have a moan again about how the squad's too big

I don't think there's actually a huge amount of difference between the two systems. Currently you have the CBs splitting, a CM dropping in and the full backs pushing on anyway. So at the back, there's plenty of similarity.

Gunter can obviously play wing back, but I'd say McCleary can too. Obviously it's a direction we're unlikely to go in because it's not part of Stam's philosophy and that's what we're focusing on. Given we're clearly weak upfront, but already had Rakels, Kermorgant and Samuel, it might have been a better use of resources to pick up another striker (maybe Meite would still have been that man) and a left wing back, rather than Beerens, Harriott and Meite, which still leaves us weak upfront because none of our strikers are capable of scoring sufficient goals on their own, even if their work rate is good enough.

That would still have left Stacey and Fosu available with Obita and McCleary had we wanted to revert to using wingers and full backs.

[Ian Royal]

It's entirely plausible to switch to a 3-5-2 mid game should the situation arise, Van den Berg or Evans can shift to central defence, with Obita and Gunter as wing backs, McCleary can push up front with Swift replacing him on the wing.

weren't we pretty much playing that system for much of the early season.
VDB/Evans dropping into the back line while obita/gunter spent most of their time in the opposite half, and swift was playing as a 10.

yes we were

If you only look at the defensive half of the pitch.

McCleary............Swift.............Beerens
......................Kermorgant

Isn't very much like the attacking half you'd otherwise see

.......Williams....Swift....Quinn
.............Samuel....Kermorgant

[SCIAG]

Gunter and Beerens are far from ideal wing backs, but Obita, McCleary and Harriott should be up to it. A traditional 3-5-2 is an option but dropping Beerens and McCleary for Obita and Samuel would probably make it even harder to create chances.

My proposal would be something like this:

-----------------------AAH---------------------
---------Gunter--Moore--Blackett------
----------------------VDB----------------------
McCleary--Swift--Williams--Beerens
-------------Kermogant--Samuel--------

which can quickly turn into a conventional 4-4-2 with Joey dropping in at centre half. England used something like this briefly around Euro 96, with a back four of:
--------Neville----Adams----Pearce----------
----------------Southgate/Ince------------------
and the "wing-backs" were McManaman and Anderton, two players who didn't have a defensive bone in their body but could pin back the opposition. Neville and Pearce played narrower than normal full backs but got out wide when the midfielder dropped back.

If we're not comfortable with something quite that radical then put Obita in for Beerens, but I think the ability to shift back to 4-4-2 is very useful.

[Ian Royal]

Not sure why you think Gunter isn't a wing back, particularly when he's played there successfully for Wales and y ou've instead got him as a CB presumably based solely on his performances there for Wales sometimes. He's always played better on the ball for us the further he is up the pitch as well. I'm not suggesting he's some sort of ace crosser or going to score goals, but he's certainly not poor at delivering a ball in.

Given the CBs we've got and midfielders who can slot in during an emergency, Gunter would be about 12th on the list of players I'd want at CB. Moore, McShane, Blackett, Cooper, JVDB, Gravenberch, Dickie, Keown, Hyam, Jules, McIntyre, Gunter

[NewCorkSeth]

But Chelsea are playing a 3-4-3 not a 3-5-2..

Hull and Watford are playing a 3-5-2 should we be copying their model?
Hulls strikers have only scored 2 league goals between them I think and Deeney/Ighalo are the only reason its working for Watford

Chelsea and West Ham are playing the 3-4-3 because it frees up their attacking players (Lanzini, Pedro, Hazard, Payet, Antonio, Costa) to attack more free from more defensive responsibilities, while also giving their strikers more players around creating chances.

There's a reason only 2 Premiership teams are using a 3-5-2 (only one succesfully). Its a very tailored formation.

How many championship teams are playing with 2 up front? (Honest question) It is a waste of a man when used against a 4-5-1 in our league. The 3-5-2 was popular in the premier league when everyone was playing 4-4-2. The extra man in defense made the oppositions strikers job incredibly difficult. As soon as 4-5-1 became popular the 3-5-2 disappeared as having 3 players mark 1 striker was obviously pointless.

A 4-5-1 suits our players and our style of play. We have no AMCs (Swift maybe but has he ever been played there in his career?)

[SCIAG]

There's a difference between playing there for Wales and playing there for Reading. Wales's opponents often play very narrow to restrict Bale and Ramsey, who are responsible for most of the chance creation and create lots of space for Gunter and Taylor. We don't have players like that who can distort the game, or create loads of chances for each other. In a 3-5-2, we'd be expecting Gunter to be one of the main creative players alongside Swift and Obita.

I'm not concerned about his delivery, more his ability and willingness to take players on. I think he's too conservative. He also lacks vision.

Agree that Dickie and Keown would be better options for that right sided centre back role, but Keown has just got back from another long-term injury and Dickie isn't at the club. The others are either left footed or players I'd rather have at centre back than right back. I guess Moore is an option with McShane or Cooper as the central one, but I don't think McShane's good enough on the ball for that, and Cooper is more risky than Gunter defensively (and I definitely wouldn't want to entrust it to someone who was completely wet). Gunter's played centre back in emergencies three or four times and he's always looked good enough to me.

[Ian Royal]

I think Gunter panics about taking people on because he's playing full back, he's a different player in the final third. He never dithers there. If he's starting higher, with a full defensive complement behind him and a midfielder capable of slotting in behind, he wouldn't be dithery.

[Forbury Lion]

McLeary and Beerens have shown that they can hit the target - maybe all we need is for the winger not taking the cross/running with the ball to get into a second striker position rather than on the wing?

[Maneki Neko]

yeah, that's the key

[genome]

Inside forwards

Clarke used that system, and it worked, until Blackman forgot he was a footballer and Clarke remembered he is an utterpcunt

[Crowbar6753]

I started this post a while back stating that 3-5-2 or 5-3-2 could be an option, well yesterdays fine win over Burton shows that this could well be the case, with Obita and Gunter proving that they can perform as wing backs and make this system work. We even managed to see Beerens and McCleary fit into this system which was one of the downsides mentioned in this post and how to utilize these two. We may have been forced into this system due ti injuries up front, but this could really turn out to be a great plan B... also i know a striker is a must, but the thought of Kermie, Rakels and Samuel playing any two of three could be rather tasty.

[Lower West]

Swift for Beerans seems a logical switch in yesterdays formation. Though I'd replace Williams for a player with better defensive abilities.

[leon]

No No No.

We don't have the players for it.

[Maneki Neko]

3-4-2-1

[NewCorkSeth]

Stam seems to suggest if we are using the 3-5-2 formation and playing well it will end up being a 3-3-4.
Which Im assuming looked a little something like this? Can anyone confirm who was at the match if our shape seemed a little like this at times?


-----------------------Al-Habsi
----------Moore---Mcshane---Blackett
Gunter---------------Evans--------------Obita
McCleary----Williams--Samuel----Beerens

[3points]

Stam seems to suggest if we are using the 3-5-2 formation and playing well it will end up being a 3-3-4.
Which Im assuming looked a little something like this? Can anyone confirm who was at the match if our shape seemed a little like this at times?


-----------------------Al-Habsi
----------Moore---Mcshane---Blackett
Gunter---------------Evans--------------Obita
McCleary----Williams--Samuel----Beerens

No Beerens was much more central most of the game. my interpretation was this

------------------------------Al-Habsi
--------McShane------------Moore-----------Blackett
Gunter---------------------Evans------------------------------Obita
-----------------------William------Beerens
------------------McCleary--------------Samuel

Tbf - Gunter looked a bit lost a lot of the time. His general starting position was on the half way line and didn't get forward as effectively as Obita did on the left. Beerens certainly drifted left but started centrally but helped Obita to overload their right back on numerous occasions. Williams played a bit deeper than Beerens as well and did a decent amount of tracking back and defensive duties. He was often covering right back and helping out McShane when Gunter wasn't quite in the right position