Al Jazeera Bombshell about Reading FC?

[Jagermesiter1871]

Good to see the EFL doing a cracking job protecting clubs. Keep it up lads. Irony being now we have an owner with money he's not allowed to spend it, instead mothballing the club.

[Snowflake Royal]

RUSTY!! Hope you're keeping well.

I'm doing OK thanks. I just sit here in the background keeping tabs on you all I've had a few scares this year (not covid) but still alive. Shame the club is in such a state as I need little pick me up's on a Saturday till the rugby starts

Great to hear from you pal!

[Snowflake Royal]

Good to see the EFL doing a cracking job protecting clubs. Keep it up lads. Irony being now we have an owner with money he's not allowed to spend it, instead mothballing the club.

Yeah, Dai was doing a bang up job.

He's the clown that's seen our wages spiral out of control. And he's not giving us money, just loading us with debt to him.

[RoyalBlue]

2 observations.

1) If true, then the seller has to shoulder some of the blame for not doing proper due diligence

2) ditto fit and proper person's test.

Our current predicament stems from this ill fated sale

If it's AZ and Samuelson, we actually fixed a lot of what went wrong from them under the Thais. We just then went crazy again under Dai and Gourlay rather than finishing the job.

I'll repeat this from elsewhere. It hasn't been the Fit and Proper Persons check for ages and that was a misnomer anyway. It's just a check of finances available and unspent convictions.

It doesn't and can't really look at intentions, being shady, or decide someone should be guilty of a crime.

Madejski does have a lot to answer if it (totally unsurprisingly) turns out Samuelson and AZ were dodgy as oxf*rd.

SJM has a lot to answer for. He was desparate for cash to bail out Sackville Properties following the GFC. He needed £25m to stop the banks foreclosing on their loans. He sold 49% of the shares of RFC for £12m, and AZ also covered the £12-£13m of debt owed to SJM at that time (ergo, total £25m). The fact he only sold 49% reflects he knew there were concerns about AZ's ability to fund a deal - Daddy Z put up the initial cash and told AZ to get funding in place to buy the remaining 51% over 12 months, which he outright failed to do. Therefore, SJM took the 49% shares back and Daddy Z funded the club for 12 months to cover the player contracts of players like Pog and Danny Williams who were AZ signings.

I blame Bill Kenwright! IIRC he and SJM were good friends and it was Kenwright who introduced dodgy Chris to SJM with a recommendation. Everton subsequently escaped unscathed as their Finance guy leaked news of the potential takeover to the media and Samuelson and his equally dodgy Russians pulled out.

Instead it was us who got well and truly screwed by the dodgy dealings.

[Rusty royal]

RUSTY!! Hope you're keeping well.

I'm doing OK thanks. I just sit here in the background keeping tabs on you all I've had a few scares this year (not covid) but still alive. Shame the club is in such a state as I need little pick me up's on a Saturday till the rugby starts

Great to hear from you pal!

Thanks

[Nameless]

Good to see the EFL doing a cracking job protecting clubs. Keep it up lads. Irony being now we have an owner with money he's not allowed to spend it, instead mothballing the club.

Yeah, Dai was doing a bang up job.

He's the clown that's seen our wages spiral out of control. And he's not giving us money, just loading us with debt to him.

He’s converted debt into shares in the same way SJM did. I don’t think the rules actually allow him to just ‘give’ the money. Of course he’s not loading ‘us’ with debt, he’s loading himself with debt, except when he’s found ways to legitimately transfer money into the clubs account from other accounts.

[RoyalBlue]

Good to see the EFL doing a cracking job protecting clubs. Keep it up lads. Irony being now we have an owner with money he's not allowed to spend it, instead mothballing the club.

Yeah, Dai was doing a bang up job.

He's the clown that's seen our wages spiral out of control. And he's not giving us money, just loading us with debt to him.

You really do have it in for him don't you. He made one big mistake appointing Gourlay (doubtless on someone's recommendation) and subsequently got shot of him within the year. Whilst he may have loans against the club (which clubs' owners don't), I believe he has also sunk real cash in. Though small in the overall financial scheme he has also been generous to the supporters or are you going to say that generosity has been financed through loans against the club too?

Meantime I look forward to an expose on Gourlay's activities within football too.

[Lower West]

Good to see the EFL doing a cracking job protecting clubs. Keep it up lads. Irony being now we have an owner with money he's not allowed to spend it, instead mothballing the club.

The other 2 clubs the dynasty has owned have subsequently gone bust. Doesn't suggest that a good business model is being followed in the quest for success.

[Snowflake Royal]

Good to see the EFL doing a cracking job protecting clubs. Keep it up lads. Irony being now we have an owner with money he's not allowed to spend it, instead mothballing the club.

Yeah, Dai was doing a bang up job.

He's the clown that's seen our wages spiral out of control. And he's not giving us money, just loading us with debt to him.

You really do have it in for him don't you. He made one big mistake appointing Gourlay (doubtless on someone's recommendation) and subsequently got shot of him within the year. Whilst he may have loans against the club (which clubs' owners don't), I believe he has also sunk real cash in. Though small in the overall financial scheme he has also been generous to the supporters or are you going to say that generosity has been financed through loans against the club too?

Meantime I look forward to an expose on Gourlay's activities within football too.

Lol @ pretending the problems ended with Gourlay.

And rich from the guy who was anti SJM while it was going well.

[tidus_mi2]

Good to see the EFL doing a cracking job protecting clubs. Keep it up lads. Irony being now we have an owner with money he's not allowed to spend it, instead mothballing the club.

Yeah, Dai was doing a bang up job.

He's the clown that's seen our wages spiral out of control. And he's not giving us money, just loading us with debt to him.

He’s converted debt into shares in the same way SJM did. I don’t think the rules actually allow him to just ‘give’ the money. Of course he’s not loading ‘us’ with debt, he’s loading himself with debt, except when he’s found ways to legitimately transfer money into the clubs account from other accounts.

See the issue with that persists that if he's allowed to rack up the wage bill to unsustainable levels, even if he's funding it, if for some reason he just walks away, we're suddenly up shit creek without a paddle.

That part of FFP I agree with but I think there needs to be flexibility on the side of the EFL, especially if the rules did stop us offering better contracts to the likes of Olise and Richards, we've probably missed out on something like £10-20 million on those two deals.

[Millsy]

Good to see the EFL doing a cracking job protecting clubs. Keep it up lads. Irony being now we have an owner with money he's not allowed to spend it, instead mothballing the club.

Yeah, Dai was doing a bang up job.

He's the clown that's seen our wages spiral out of control. And he's not giving us money, just loading us with debt to him.

He’s converted debt into shares in the same way SJM did. I don’t think the rules actually allow him to just ‘give’ the money. Of course he’s not loading ‘us’ with debt, he’s loading himself with debt, except when he’s found ways to legitimately transfer money into the clubs account from other accounts.

I may be getting it wrong, confused as to who joined when, with Anton, Thais, now the Chinese.

But weren't the high wage signings pre-Chinese days? Aluko, Baldock, Moore et al which they inherited?

And also actually hasn't the Chinese investment generally been pretty good i.e. the likes of Ejaria, Puscas, Joao which lead to us missing out on playoffs last year (and in my opinion had we had a better manager would have done it)?

I quite like them.

[From Despair To Where?]

Baldock and Aluko are on his watch, tbf.

Our overspending began with Anton. Yongge does at least have the money to back up his spending but some of his decision making has compounded existing problems.

Generally, though I'm prepared to cut him some slack at present because he made the training ground a reality and he has put money towards fan initiatives.

[Snowflake Royal]

Yeah, Dai was doing a bang up job.

He's the clown that's seen our wages spiral out of control. And he's not giving us money, just loading us with debt to him.

He’s converted debt into shares in the same way SJM did. I don’t think the rules actually allow him to just ‘give’ the money. Of course he’s not loading ‘us’ with debt, he’s loading himself with debt, except when he’s found ways to legitimately transfer money into the clubs account from other accounts.

I may be getting it wrong, confused as to who joined when, with Anton, Thais, now the Chinese.

But weren't the high wage signings pre-Chinese days? Aluko, Baldock, Moore et al which they inherited?

And also actually hasn't the Chinese investment generally been pretty good i.e. the likes of Ejaria, Puscas, Joao which lead to us missing out on playoffs last year (and in my opinion had we had a better manager would have done it)?

I quite like them.

No. Dai Yongge bought the club in May 17, end of Stam's first season. Gourlay arrived the same time.

So Aluko, Baldock, not selling Moore and giving him a PL wage for years... all under Yongge's watch

Joao, Puscas and Ejaria all his and all arguably unaffordable given our position.

[Esteban]

He’s converted debt into shares in the same way SJM did. I don’t think the rules actually allow him to just ‘give’ the money. Of course he’s not loading ‘us’ with debt, he’s loading himself with debt, except when he’s found ways to legitimately transfer money into the clubs account from other accounts.

I may be getting it wrong, confused as to who joined when, with Anton, Thais, now the Chinese.

But weren't the high wage signings pre-Chinese days? Aluko, Baldock, Moore et al which they inherited?

And also actually hasn't the Chinese investment generally been pretty good i.e. the likes of Ejaria, Puscas, Joao which lead to us missing out on playoffs last year (and in my opinion had we had a better manager would have done it)?

I quite like them.

No. Dai Yongge bought the club in May 17, end of Stam's first season. Gourlay arrived the same time.

So Aluko, Baldock, not selling Moore and giving him a PL wage for years... all under Yongge's watch

Joao, Puscas and Ejaria all his and all arguably unaffordable given our position.

This is the bit where we need more clarity. IIRC, we were under an embargo the summer that we brought in Joao and Puscas (among others), then suddenly we're throwing money around. So did we just blatantly ignore the fact that the EFL had their eyes on us and gamble on getting promotion that season (which is mental, but quite possible), or did the EFL sanction those moves and the money spent in fees and wages?

If the latter, then the EFL have as much to answer for as whomever it was that sanctioned those deals from within the club.

Either way, the club have to take a large portion (if not all) of the blame - rules are rules, however flawed they may be.

[genome]

I mean it looks like the EFL are going to let us sign some players before the end of the window now, too.

What's the point of a transfer embargo if you're just going to let the club spaff a load of money in the last couple of weeks of the window anyway?

[Nameless]

I mean it looks like the EFL are going to let us sign some players before the end of the window now, too.

What's the point of a transfer embargo if you're just going to let the club spaff a load of money in the last couple of weeks of the window anyway?

We won’t be allowed to do that.
We’ll probably be allowed to bring in a limited number of loans and free agents on restricted terms, and hopefully offer new deals to players we already have.
We’ve done a lot to get the finances under some kind of control and releasingnthe restrictions will recognise that.
The bizarre thing is Derby we’re allowed to sign players some time ago despite having been in far worse trouble than us.

[Nameless]

Baldock and Aluko are on his watch, tbf.

Our overspending began with Anton. Yongge does at least have the money to back up his spending but some of his decision making has compounded existing problems.

Generally, though I'm prepared to cut him some slack at present because he made the training ground a reality and he has put money towards fan initiatives.

Our ‘over spending’ surely began before Anton. We were not a self sustaining club under SJM so if the argument is that clubs should only spend what they earn we have been in this situation for decades.
Not that the ‘living within your means’ mantra applies to many clubs, or is the best option....

[Brogue]

I may be getting it wrong, confused as to who joined when, with Anton, Thais, now the Chinese.

But weren't the high wage signings pre-Chinese days? Aluko, Baldock, Moore et al which they inherited?

And also actually hasn't the Chinese investment generally been pretty good i.e. the likes of Ejaria, Puscas, Joao which lead to us missing out on playoffs last year (and in my opinion had we had a better manager would have done it)?

I quite like them.

No. Dai Yongge bought the club in May 17, end of Stam's first season. Gourlay arrived the same time.

So Aluko, Baldock, not selling Moore and giving him a PL wage for years... all under Yongge's watch

Joao, Puscas and Ejaria all his and all arguably unaffordable given our position.

This is the bit where we need more clarity. IIRC, we were under an embargo the summer that we brought in Joao and Puscas (among others), then suddenly we're throwing money around. So did we just blatantly ignore the fact that the EFL had their eyes on us and gamble on getting promotion that season (which is mental, but quite possible), or did the EFL sanction those moves and the money spent in fees and wages?

If the latter, then the EFL have as much to answer for as whomever it was that sanctioned those deals from within the club.

Either way, the club have to take a large portion (if not all) of the blame - rules are rules, however flawed they may be.

well for a start the EFL had to approve the transfers, they wouldn't have let us sign them if we were under the embargo we wouldn't have been able to register them for the season. Didn't Dai sell the stadium to himself? or the training ground or something like that? that gave us the cash injection needed to buy these players.

With regards to all the claims being about the players being brought in. I can't remember who said it, maybe it was the manager at the time, but it was someone at the club, but whoever it was categorically said Aluko did not cost the report 7 million nowhere near it.

Baldock - good striker, a proven striker at this level. Just not used to his strengths. That cant be put on the owner
Moore's contract extension was off the back of his best season for us, club captain, we didn't want to lose him. Should we have accepted the 8 mill offered? do we actually know this bid came in? and was it 8 mill cold har cash upfront? or some sort of you will get x if this happens and x if this. This was also around the time we were being told we will no longer be selling our best assets, it seemed a principal thing more than anything else.

Sure Dai has made some mistakes, he's new to football ownership, hindsight is a wonderful thing. But I'm not going to bash him over signing Aluko who at the time was an exciting player coming off the back of a good season for fulham, Baldock a proven striker at this level, and tieing up our club captain for 5 years.

[Nameless]

Don’t think Dai is new to football ownership, although I suspect owning a club here is very different to owning one in China....

[From Despair To Where?]

Baldock and Aluko are on his watch, tbf.

Our overspending began with Anton. Yongge does at least have the money to back up his spending but some of his decision making has compounded existing problems.

Generally, though I'm prepared to cut him some slack at present because he made the training ground a reality and he has put money towards fan initiatives.

Our ‘over spending’ surely began before Anton. We were not a self sustaining club under SJM so if the argument is that clubs should only spend what they earn we have been in this situation for decades.
Not that the ‘living within your means’ mantra applies to many clubs, or is the best option....

The real issue was Anton spending money he didn't have then taking out high interest loans with Vibrac against our parachute payments, payments that were meant to mitigate against the costs of relegation. Yeah, we lost money under Madejski but it was money he actually had. So we get relegated, the parachute payments service the loan and we end up selling players to pay the tax man. IMO, the situation was significantly worse under Anton. The Yongges do actually have the money, the rules just state they can't spend it in the way they want to.