Will relegation hurt you?

[TiagoIlori]

Nothing unique then. Plenty of Championship clubs have dropped in and come back up or are fighting for promotion. We’ll see where we are at Christmas.

[Pepe the Horseman]

We're not getting relegated.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

Pretty gutted as it would be the first relegation to League One I have seen in my lifetime as a supporter of the club.

Hopefully we can build a good enough side to get back on an even keel in the Championship as we've seen a few sides do. But, on the flip side, with our owner we could feasibly end up being like a Charlton, just labouring in League One and end up at a point where we are viewed as a League One club, rather than what we've built over the last couple of decades where you think the club "should" be operating in the Championship, particularly with the facilities and financial power we've got from our owners as well.

The last thing I want to do is see us become a Charlton or even a yo-yo club like what Rotherham and Barnsley have been over the last few years.

[Millsy]

Every year three clubs are relegated from the Championship. And every year they continue to operate with almost no exceptions.

The way some of you lot behave you'd think the 92 would actually be the 13 by now if relegation is that cataclysmic.

+1

[Kitsondinho]

Every year three clubs are relegated from the Championship. And every year they continue to operate with almost no exceptions.

The way some of you lot behave you'd think the 92 would actually be the 13 by now if relegation is that cataclysmic.

+1

The relegation itself isn’t the problem. The reaction of the owner is. IF Dai pulls the funding, we’re screwed. That is why many of us are very worried. There are more than enough examples of that happening…sometimes it is quick sale and stability (a la Derby) sometimes it is much, much worse…the most extreme example is Bury…but fans of Pompey, Bradford, Bolton, Stockport, Grimsby, AFC Wimbledon, Oldham, Yeovil and Scunthorpe (and from a lower starting point Chesterfield, York, Notts County, Aldershot…) all have a tale to tell. We are closer to League Two now than Championship stability.

[tidus_mi2]

Every year three clubs are relegated from the Championship. And every year they continue to operate with almost no exceptions.

The way some of you lot behave you'd think the 92 would actually be the 13 by now if relegation is that cataclysmic.

+1

The relegation itself isn’t the problem. The reaction of the owner is. IF Dai pulls the funding, we’re screwed. That is why many of us are very worried. There are more than enough examples of that happening…sometimes it is quick sale and stability (a la Derby) sometimes it is much, much worse…the most extreme example is Bury…but fans of Pompey, Bradford, Bolton, Stockport, Grimsby, AFC Wimbledon, Oldham, Yeovil and Scunthorpe (and from a lower starting point Chesterfield, York, Notts County, Aldershot…) all have a tale to tell. We are closer to League Two now than Championship stability.

If Dai pulls the plug, worst case scenario he puts us in administration and we'd start next season on -12, we'd get a new owner, no guarantee it would be a good one, but we'd get one. We aren't screwed.

[muirinho]

I'm resigned to it now, tbh. Only thing is - can you have a Cat 1 academy if you are in League 1? Was talking to a supporter today who said you couldn't and it would be gutting for the academy staff, having worked so hard to get back to Cat 1. I wasn't aware of any such rule.

[tidus_mi2]

I'm resigned to it now, tbh. Only thing is - can you have a Cat 1 academy if you are in League 1? Was talking to a supporter today who said you couldn't and it would be gutting for the academy staff, having worked so hard to get back to Cat 1. I wasn't aware of any such rule.

Derby have a cat 1 academy

[Stranded]

I'm resigned to it now, tbh. Only thing is - can you have a Cat 1 academy if you are in League 1? Was talking to a supporter today who said you couldn't and it would be gutting for the academy staff, having worked so hard to get back to Cat 1. I wasn't aware of any such rule.

Derby still have a Cat 1 Academy even after their shitshow, so should be fine.

[tmesis]

+1

The relegation itself isn’t the problem. The reaction of the owner is. IF Dai pulls the funding, we’re screwed. That is why many of us are very worried. There are more than enough examples of that happening…sometimes it is quick sale and stability (a la Derby) sometimes it is much, much worse…the most extreme example is Bury…but fans of Pompey, Bradford, Bolton, Stockport, Grimsby, AFC Wimbledon, Oldham, Yeovil and Scunthorpe (and from a lower starting point Chesterfield, York, Notts County, Aldershot…) all have a tale to tell. We are closer to League Two now than Championship stability.

If Dai pulls the plug, worst case scenario he puts us in administration and we'd start next season on -12, we'd get a new owner, no guarantee it would be a good one, but we'd get one. We aren't screwed.

Worse case scenario is that he folds the club, as he's done with both of his previous clubs.

Possibly worse than administration is him just withdrawing financial support, and just keeps us alive to make £1.5 million a year in rental charges.

Administration would be bad, really bad, because we don't own the ground, or the training ground, car park, or hotel. What exactly would the new owners be buying? If Dai was benevolent, and came to some kind of deal over the ground, then maybe not so bad, but we'd be looking at probable relegation to League Two, and I don't think it's as simple as your get a points deduction and the slate is wiped clean. Restrictions apparently last quite a while.

If he's not benevolent then there's a large risk of no owner coming in, and the club folds.

Basically we are £100 million+ in debt. Our future really relies on Dai either wiping out that debt, or not caring about the club's debt to him increasing. We can't wipe out that debt via administration, as the debt is to Dai himself, so that would just be the same as him writing off the debt personally.

[Kitsondinho]

The relegation itself isn’t the problem. The reaction of the owner is. IF Dai pulls the funding, we’re screwed. That is why many of us are very worried. There are more than enough examples of that happening…sometimes it is quick sale and stability (a la Derby) sometimes it is much, much worse…the most extreme example is Bury…but fans of Pompey, Bradford, Bolton, Stockport, Grimsby, AFC Wimbledon, Oldham, Yeovil and Scunthorpe (and from a lower starting point Chesterfield, York, Notts County, Aldershot…) all have a tale to tell. We are closer to League Two now than Championship stability.

If Dai pulls the plug, worst case scenario he puts us in administration and we'd start next season on -12, we'd get a new owner, no guarantee it would be a good one, but we'd get one. We aren't screwed.

Worse case scenario is that he folds the club, as he's done with both of his previous clubs.

Possibly worse than administration is him just withdrawing financial support, and just keeps us alive to make £1.5 million a year in rental charges.

Administration would be bad, really bad, because we don't own the ground, or the training ground, car park, or hotel. What exactly would the new owners be buying? If Dai was benevolent, and came to some kind of deal over the ground, then maybe not so bad, but we'd be looking at probable relegation to League Two, and I don't think it's as simple as your get a points deduction and the slate is wiped clean. Restrictions apparently last quite a while.

If he's not benevolent then there's a large risk of no owner coming in, and the club folds.

Basically we are £100 million+ in debt. Our future really relies on Dai either wiping out that debt, or not caring about the club's debt to him increasing. We can't wipe out that debt via administration, as the debt is to Dai himself, so that would just be the same as him writing off the debt personally.

Exactly. We are totally beholden to Dai (and to an extent those who own the land around the ground) Even if the club is sold, if the new owner doesn’t regain control of the the other ‘parts’, it could get very messy…and, whether we like it or not, we haven’t got a Coventry sized fanbase to keep that sort of situation afloat. Just because ‘clubs rarely go under’ doesn’t mean our unique and alarming circumstances won’t lead there. It is a sorry mess.

[tidus_mi2]

We'll be fine is a hill and you guys are being melodramatic I'm willing to die on.

[Orion1871]

We'll be fine is a hill and you guys are being melodramatic I'm willing to die on.

As long as the club doesn't die on it with you.

[Stranded]

Do people really think Dai is likely to walk away and fold a Company that owes him 140m?

That he would bother to finally allow the semblance of a structure to form at the club then run for the hills at the first set-back?

With relegation we are probably, realistically as close to the PL as we would be if we stayed up, as promotion ain't happening to there for a few seasons. If we do go and bounce back we could be where say Luton and Sunderland are now, clubs who both have had it much worse than us at the moment.

He may own the ground but that is worth nothing, if there is no sport there, as is the hotel etc. He could sell it but it is hardly a prime site for housing. Office space maybe - and anything he makes from the sales would still be less than what he is owed.

As for investment, we are an ex PL club 25mins from Heathrow. I'd be amazed if we aren't on the radar of some very rich Americans.

Finally, with all due respect to the clubs he did fold, the potential returns on a successful Belgian or Chinese club are dwarfed by us getting successful be that via income or a sale at a premium price.

So, whilst things may well get tougher with the likely relegation, I just can't buy into the we are doomed narrative that is currently at play.

[Stranded]

One thing to note on running costs. Wages have to drop of 60% of turnover - this may be forecast turnover.

As a result, if turnover drops to say 12m, then wages can only be 7m total.

We have an "advantage" here that any player who signed a 3 year or longer deal up to September. Therefore, the likes of Holmes, McIntyre, Yiadom, Sarr, Ince and a few more would not be included in those calcs, if we drop and they stay.

[Elm Park Kid]

It's true that Dai can just liquidate the club if he chooses. But there is no benefit to him from doing so - not only does he lose everything he's invested, he also creates a huge amount of negative publicity. Maybe that's not a big concern for a Chinese Billionaire, but it's not something he will bring upon himself for no reason.

Rather - he will just put the club into administration. This will mean writing off his own debt, but at least it means that the football club will continue, and he'll have tenants for the stadium and training ground he owns. He might be able to actually sell both those assets to the new owner if we manage to find a decent one. All of this is exactly what happened with Derby - Mel Morris had to write off the money owed to him, the sale price of the club went to paying of the football debts and the tax bill, and Morris sold the stadium to the new owners afterwards. You'd assume that the same thing would happen with Reading.

[Royal_jimmy]

Every year three clubs are relegated from the Championship. And every year they continue to operate with almost no exceptions.

The way some of you lot behave you'd think the 92 would actually be the 13 by now if relegation is that cataclysmic.

+1

The relegation itself isn’t the problem. The reaction of the owner is. IF Dai pulls the funding, we’re screwed. That is why many of us are very worried. There are more than enough examples of that happening…sometimes it is quick sale and stability (a la Derby) sometimes it is much, much worse…the most extreme example is Bury…but fans of Pompey, Bradford, Bolton, Stockport, Grimsby, AFC Wimbledon, Oldham, Yeovil and Scunthorpe (and from a lower starting point Chesterfield, York, Notts County, Aldershot…) all have a tale to tell. We are closer to League Two now than Championship stability.

This 100%

Relegation would be something I'd be relaxed about if we were better run but the uncertainty is concerning

[YorkshireRoyal99]

Do people really think Dai is likely to walk away and fold a Company that owes him 140m?

That he would bother to finally allow the semblance of a structure to form at the club then run for the hills at the first set-back?

With relegation we are probably, realistically as close to the PL as we would be if we stayed up, as promotion ain't happening to there for a few seasons. If we do go and bounce back we could be where say Luton and Sunderland are now, clubs who both have had it much worse than us at the moment.

He may own the ground but that is worth nothing, if there is no sport there, as is the hotel etc. He could sell it but it is hardly a prime site for housing. Office space maybe - and anything he makes from the sales would still be less than what he is owed.

As for investment, we are an ex PL club 25mins from Heathrow. I'd be amazed if we aren't on the radar of some very rich Americans.

Finally, with all due respect to the clubs he did fold, the potential returns on a successful Belgian or Chinese club are dwarfed by us getting successful be that via income or a sale at a premium price.

So, whilst things may well get tougher with the likely relegation, I just can't buy into the we are doomed narrative that is currently at play.

Yeah I don't really get the argument around administration, just because a) it could happen at any time and b) why would he do it when the club owes him so much?

It's a different circumstance to the side in Belgium, weren't they in debt by something minute in comparison to us (one video said it was around £10m worth of debt, but not sure how credible that is)?

If we did go into administration, it would be bad, but I'd be confident we'd find somebody eventually and build again from there. But I just don't see why he'd put the club into administration, he could do that at any time really. Cutting his losses on £140m is massive in comparison to what he will have done prior.

[Kitsondinho]

+1

The relegation itself isn’t the problem. The reaction of the owner is. IF Dai pulls the funding, we’re screwed. That is why many of us are very worried. There are more than enough examples of that happening…sometimes it is quick sale and stability (a la Derby) sometimes it is much, much worse…the most extreme example is Bury…but fans of Pompey, Bradford, Bolton, Stockport, Grimsby, AFC Wimbledon, Oldham, Yeovil and Scunthorpe (and from a lower starting point Chesterfield, York, Notts County, Aldershot…) all have a tale to tell. We are closer to League Two now than Championship stability.

This 100%

Relegation would be something I'd be relaxed about if we were better run but the uncertainty is concerning

Last time we dropped to L1, we were run by SJM, moving to a new stadium and weren’t millions in debt. Things were building. This time, everything is just falling apart at the seams.

[Loafer]

Wonder how many fans will go to games if we go down? Club must be concerned with the lack of TV revenue aswell, I think only a small handful of L1 games are on television and we'd probably be 1 of them